I just saw this ridiculous commercial for the 2nd time:

[Misunderstood]

Yea, I know you were playin, I was too, just havin a bit of fun. Although what I said I do believe. In reading over the thread it looks like you have been doing a great job. Keeping it light but moving along without getting personal. Good Job!

 

[Windwalker]

One objection I've heard humpteen times, is how did Noah find, i.e., 'get', all those animals.

Well, he didn't have to...the animals "came to" him @ the ark, as per vs.9.

If God could magically make animals comply peacefully to his will and order themselves single file, all well-behaved rather than obeying their natural instincts, why couldn't he just get humans to behave like that and make the whole ark thingy unnecessary to begin with?

Sounds like an awful waste of life to destroy it all, when he used magic to save some of it from himself. Very confusing. Reason cannot make sense of such strange logic. "I will curse life and destroy it because it disobeys me, so I will use magic to make it obey me so I don't have to destroy all of it for not obeying me."

 

[nPeace]

Concerning eating.....Let me ask you this:
Do you think it possible that God could have induced a state of hibernation for those animals? So they wouldn't eat much?

Does the Bible say? No, it doesn't. But it seems likely, given there was only the one entrance/exit on the Ark....the 1-cubit-high window, that stretched around the Ark, was near the top.

During stormy weather (which is what the Flood was, lol), many animals tend to enter a state of hibernation, or at least torpor, inactivity.

Could Jehovah just keep them from getting hungry? In the Book of Daniel, we are told of a situation where Daniel was thrown into a pit of lions...they didn't attack him. Were they not hungry? No, they were! Daniel was taken out, his accusers were hurled in, and the lions ate them up quickly.

Where the Bible is silent on details of anything, I go with what the interpretation allows and makes the most sense, staying within the parameters of the story. And consider the Bible's entire context. I've never found it to be wrong.


Concerning their distribution after the Flood.....

Again, the Bible is silent. But it does tell that Jehovah God took Elijah "up in a windstorm, in a flaming chariot." (He wasn't taken to heaven, as many think....a while later, he wrote a letter to Israel's new king.) Apparently, he was simply transported to another area. Couldn't Jehovah do the same? Though He's not required to give us any explanation.

Seems like this one always comes up, despite it being explained countless times.
New evidence from the Maya city of Copan, in Honduras, reveals that ancient Mesoamericans routinely captured and traded wild animals for symbolic and ritual purposes, according to a study published September 12, 2018...

Wild animals were routinely captured and traded in ancient Mesoamerica

Haven't most people watched The Life of Pi?

 

[robocop (actually)]

Controversial T. Rex Soft Tissue Find Finally Explained

trthank you Subduction Zone.

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

Google "bones in the Alaskan muck"
Google "bones in the Yukon muck"
Google "bones in Siberian permafrost"
Google "Frank C. Hibben, Alaska" (Even he didn't want to admit the source of the devastation.) This professor experienced ridicule for just reporting and describing the extent of the carnage..

No need. All of those have been completely discredited by actual scientists.

I'd say "nice try" but you point to creationists? Isn't actually trying is it? No, it's being deliberately disingenuous.

Then you can apologize.
Lol....like you'd ever. Sorry, was that mean?
.

I have apologized on this very site, when proven to be wrong, or if I made a mistake regarding someone's perceived character/comment.

But, oddly enough, I've never had to apologize to YOU. Hmmmm....

You forget....it was covered inside and out with tar..

Tar hardens with cold temperatures. It becomes quite brittle, in fact-- I have messed around with tar quite a bit, as a matter of fact. Tar wouldn't help.

"Noah did NOT have modern glues, and nothing from 4000 BCE would work for a boat that big.".

How do you know? Were you there? They had technology to build the pyramids..

LMAO! No need-- actual Ship Builders have studied the construction of WOODEN BOATS for centuries.

This is Old School Technology. The problem with a WOODEN boat? Is TWISTING OF THE HULL. That twisting opens up the long wooden planks-- or rather the seams between them. NO MATTER HOW GOOD YOUR GLUE.

The longer the boat? The WIDER the openings are, because the length multiplies the torque in the planks.

THE ARK WOULD SINK WITH THE FIRST 6" WAVE, due to massive leaks.

Really, that's neither here nor there. Jehovah was the One behind it, giving Noah those ideal dimensions and all..

Oh! My! You are so precious! LMAO! Not even close, silly rabbit!

Just the fact that he had those ideal dimensions (Length was 6 times the width and 3 times the height), as revealed by Moses, is evidence in itself that Divine Providence was behind the event!

Gobbledegook. Seriously. Your "ideal dimensions" is pure gobbledegook.

(and I hereby apologize to all perveyors of actual gobbledegook, as this is mildly insulting to them, by comparing the above to actual gobbledegook.)

 

[Subduction Zone]

I do, the version told in the Bible.

so you believe that God is a liar. Why would you believe that?

 

[Jose Fly]

Maybe by the same Power that took Elijah away in the flaming chariot?

It always makes me laugh when readers of the Genesis Flood account read where God caused the water to inundate the Earth, but then think He didn’t exert power in any other ways during and after the Event.

That's true....anything's possible once you invoke magic.

 

[ecco]

Grief! Just who publishes this "Easy-to-Read Version"?

Google "children's books about noah" and see for yourself.

Effective indoctrination starts with the very young.

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

Lol!! To build anything, you've got to remove all the obstacles, one at a time. I simply removed one, an objection I've heard for years.

I have listed 22 "obstacles" any ONE of which destroys the story in it's entire.

ooops! That's 22 separate issues that ruin your tale.

NONE of which you have managed to refute....!

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

Now, who's fibbing? Explain to me, the age of the mountains? Not the rocks....the mountains.

*sigh*

The level of educational requirements to bring your education up to the level required, to just begin to explain how we know how old the mountains are?

Would cost many thousands of dollars at a mere state university. That's just to get to square one.

And that is assuming simple ignorance. In your case? Many many years of eliminating the false teachings, a kind of anti-knowledge, that you have in your head? Would likely take several thousands of $$ more-- just to get to a blank page on which to begin.

And you expect a pat answer of less than 100 words.... because we know you won't read anything longer... past actions on your part prove that well enough.

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

Someday, everyone will know! They may have to be resurrected, but they will know.....who God is, and everything the Bible teaches.

Gotta love those implied threats: "You will know after you are dead".

Riiiiight. If atheists were worried about such things?

They wouldn't be atheists, now would they?

 

[Subduction Zone]

Now, who's fibbing? Explain to me, the age of the mountains? Not the rocks....the mountains.

I

I would gladly help you to learn. But at the very least we need to start with the basics of science. If you don't understand the basics it is impossible to understand the more advanced concepts.

 

[Subduction Zone]

You're so right!

I was just playing, I know my brothers and sisters on here -- which are few, actually, like @Deeje, @nPeace and @Vee -- support the Bible's Flood.
@URAVIP2ME is another supporter of the Flood.

Someday, everyone will know! They may have to be resurrected, but they will know.....who God is, and everything the Bible teaches.

It'll just be up to each individual to accept it.

So all of those people claim that God is a liar as well. Hopefully none of them accuse you of libel.

 

[ecco]

Archaeologists have discovered much older, therefore more reliable, manuscripts since then.

I gave you a tool: BibleHub.

Please indicate which BibleHub translation contains, or is based on, "the much older, therefore more reliable, manuscripts"

 

[Jose Fly]

I have listed 22 "obstacles" any ONE of which destroys the story in it's entire.

ooops! That's 22 separate issues that ruin your tale.

NONE of which you have managed to refute....!

As you've seen, the Jehovah's Witnesses are not at all hesitant to answer challenges with "God did that", which is somewhat unique among creationists. Most Protestant creationists I've encountered try and argue that the Biblical flood not only happened, but is scientifically supported and justified, and as such they are loathe to call upon miracles to explain away problems.

However, there is one problem with the Biblical flood that in my mind, "God did it" just doesn't make sense.

If the entire earth was flooded and all life reduced to a single breeding pair (or 7 individuals) less than 5,000 years ago, then every species and population alive today would show the unmistakable signs of a recent, extreme population bottleneck in their genomes. Yet none of them show anything like that.

I can't think of any reason why God would cover his tracks so to speak by erasing all the genetic signals of the event in every population on earth.

 

[nPeace]

You forget....it was covered inside and out with tar.

"Noah did NOT have modern glues, and nothing from 4000 BCE would work for a boat that big."

Bro. A leaky boat?

Englishman's Concordance
bak·kō·p̄er — 1 Occurrence
Genesis 6:14
HEB: מִבַּ֥יִת וּמִח֖וּץ בַּכֹּֽפֶר׃
NAS: it inside and out with pitch.
KJV: it within and without with pitch.
INT: within and without pitch

Asphalt, also known as bitumen (UK: /ˈbɪtjʊmɪn/, US: /bɪˈtjuːmən, baɪ-/), is a sticky, black, and highly viscous liquid or semi-solid form of petroleum. It may be found in natural deposits or may be a refined product, and is classed as a pitch. Before the 20th century, the term asphaltum was also used. The word is derived from the Ancient Greek ἄσφαλτος ásphaltos.

Etymology
The word "asphalt" is derived from the late Middle English, in turn from French asphalte, based on Late Latin asphalton, asphaltum, which is the latinisation of the Greek ἄσφαλτος (ásphaltos, ásphalton), a word meaning "asphalt/bitumen/pitch", which perhaps derives from ἀ-, "without" and σφάλλω (sfallō), "make fall".
..............
The expression "bitumen" originated in the Sanskrit words jatu, meaning "pitch", and jatu-krit, meaning "pitch creating" or "pitch producing" (referring to coniferous or resinous trees). The Latin equivalent is claimed by some to be originally gwitu-men (pertaining to pitch), and by others, pixtumens (exuding or bubbling pitch), which was subsequently shortened to bitumen, thence passing via French into English. From the same root is derived the Anglo-Saxon word cwidu (mastix), the German word Kitt (cement or mastic) and the old Norse word kvada.

Ancient times
The use of natural bitumen for waterproofing, and as an adhesive dates at least to the fifth millennium BC, with a crop storage basket discovered in Mehrgarh, of the Indus Valley Civilization, lined with it. By the 3rd millennia BC refined rock asphalt was in use, in the region, and was used to waterproof the Great Bath, Mohenjo-daro.
In the ancient Middle East, the Sumerians used natural bitumen deposits for mortar between bricks and stones, to cement parts of carvings, such as eyes, into place, for ship caulking, and for waterproofing. The Greek historian Herodotus said hot bitumen was used as mortar in the walls of Babylon.

The 1 kilometre (0.62 mi) long Euphrates Tunnel beneath the river Euphrates at Babylon in the time of Queen Semiramis (ca. 800 BC) was reportedly constructed of burnt bricks covered with bitumen as a waterproofing agent.

Bitumen was used by ancient Egyptians to embalm mummies. The Persian word for asphalt is moom, which is related to the English word mummy. The Egyptians' primary source of bitumen was the Dead Sea, which the Romans knew as Palus Asphaltites (Asphalt Lake).

Approximately 40 AD, Dioscorides described the Dead Sea material as Judaicum bitumen, and noted other places in the region where it could be found. The Sidon bitumen is thought to refer to material found at Hasbeya. Pliny refers also to bitumen being found in Epirus. It was a valuable strategic resource, the object of the first known battle for a hydrocarbon deposit—between the Seleucids and the Nabateans in 312 BC.

In the ancient Far East, natural bitumen was slowly boiled to get rid of the higher fractions, leaving a thermoplastic material of higher molecular weight that when layered on objects became quite hard upon cooling. This was used to cover objects that needed waterproofing, such as scabbards and other items. Statuettes of household deities were also cast with this type of material in Japan, and probably also in China.

In North America, archaeological recovery has indicated bitumen was sometimes used to adhere stone projectile points to wooden shafts. In Canada, aboriginal people used bitumen seeping out of the banks of the Athabasca and other rivers to waterproof birch bark canoes, and also heated it in smudge pots to ward off mosquitoes in the summer.

The ancients were definitely not backward, were they?
If they were, they most definitely had help, from the more ancient... if you know what I mean.

 

[ecco]

But then, I have the 20/20 of hindsight, when looking at what is clearly just a rather silly myth.

Omniscient God had 20/20 foresight and He still managed to screw things up.

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

Bro. A leaky boat?

Englishman's Concordance
bak·kō·p̄er — 1 Occurrence
Genesis 6:14
HEB: מִבַּ֥יִת וּמִח֖וּץ בַּכֹּֽפֶר׃
NAS: it inside and out with pitch.
KJV: it within and without with pitch.
INT: within and without pitch

Asphalt, also known as bitumen (UK: /ˈbɪtjʊmɪn/, US: /bɪˈtjuːmən, baɪ-/), is a sticky, black, and highly viscous liquid or semi-solid form of petroleum. It may be found in natural deposits or may be a refined product, and is classed as a pitch. Before the 20th century, the term asphaltum was also used. The word is derived from the Ancient Greek ἄσφαλτος ásphaltos.

Etymology
The word "asphalt" is derived from the late Middle English, in turn from French asphalte, based on Late Latin asphalton, asphaltum, which is the latinisation of the Greek ἄσφαλτος (ásphaltos, ásphalton), a word meaning "asphalt/bitumen/pitch", which perhaps derives from ἀ-, "without" and σφάλλω (sfallō), "make fall".
..............
The expression "bitumen" originated in the Sanskrit words jatu, meaning "pitch", and jatu-krit, meaning "pitch creating" or "pitch producing" (referring to coniferous or resinous trees). The Latin equivalent is claimed by some to be originally gwitu-men (pertaining to pitch), and by others, pixtumens (exuding or bubbling pitch), which was subsequently shortened to bitumen, thence passing via French into English. From the same root is derived the Anglo-Saxon word cwidu (mastix), the German word Kitt (cement or mastic) and the old Norse word kvada.

Ancient times
The use of natural bitumen for waterproofing, and as an adhesive dates at least to the fifth millennium BC, with a crop storage basket discovered in Mehrgarh, of the Indus Valley Civilization, lined with it. By the 3rd millennia BC refined rock asphalt was in use, in the region, and was used to waterproof the Great Bath, Mohenjo-daro.
In the ancient Middle East, the Sumerians used natural bitumen deposits for mortar between bricks and stones, to cement parts of carvings, such as eyes, into place, for ship caulking, and for waterproofing. The Greek historian Herodotus said hot bitumen was used as mortar in the walls of Babylon.

The 1 kilometre (0.62 mi) long Euphrates Tunnel beneath the river Euphrates at Babylon in the time of Queen Semiramis (ca. 800 BC) was reportedly constructed of burnt bricks covered with bitumen as a waterproofing agent.

Bitumen was used by ancient Egyptians to embalm mummies. The Persian word for asphalt is moom, which is related to the English word mummy. The Egyptians' primary source of bitumen was the Dead Sea, which the Romans knew as Palus Asphaltites (Asphalt Lake).

Approximately 40 AD, Dioscorides described the Dead Sea material as Judaicum bitumen, and noted other places in the region where it could be found. The Sidon bitumen is thought to refer to material found at Hasbeya. Pliny refers also to bitumen being found in Epirus. It was a valuable strategic resource, the object of the first known battle for a hydrocarbon deposit—between the Seleucids and the Nabateans in 312 BC.

In the ancient Far East, natural bitumen was slowly boiled to get rid of the higher fractions, leaving a thermoplastic material of higher molecular weight that when layered on objects became quite hard upon cooling. This was used to cover objects that needed waterproofing, such as scabbards and other items. Statuettes of household deities were also cast with this type of material in Japan, and probably also in China.

In North America, archaeological recovery has indicated bitumen was sometimes used to adhere stone projectile points to wooden shafts. In Canada, aboriginal people used bitumen seeping out of the banks of the Athabasca and other rivers to waterproof birch bark canoes, and also heated it in smudge pots to ward off mosquitoes in the summer.

The ancients were definitely not backward, were they?
If they were, they most definitely had help, from the more ancient... if you know what I mean.

That stuff-- pitch OR tar? Hardens at relatively cool temperatures.

Therefore? In the hull planks of a wooden boat? Hard and brittle.

Such that when a modest wave-- say six inches or more? Passes under the boat?

The hull will TWIST-- opening up the long hull planks, admitting water.

The Ark? Would have sunk within an hour at most.

Considering the energy of rainfall required to flood the planet? Those waves would have been many-many FEET high--

The Ark would therefore have sunk within minutes of going afloat.

So much for that.

 

[nPeace]

That stuff-- pitch OR tar? Hardens at relatively cool temperatures.

Therefore? In the hull planks of a wooden boat? Hard and brittle.

Such that when a modest wave-- say six inches or more? Passes under the boat?

The hull will TWIST-- opening up the long hull planks, admitting water.

The Ark? Would have sunk within an hour at most.

Considering the energy of rainfall required to flood the planet? Those waves would have been many-many FEET high--

The Ark would therefore have sunk within minutes of going afloat.

So much for that.

Again you failed to read my post.
When you do so, I will find something meaningful in your post, to respond to. Try reading through for a change.

 

[ecco]

It's simple physics.

That's the key to creationism - simple. Or, more accurately, simplistic.

You obviously have no concept of science if you can state that water raised Everest to it's current height. That's the problem with simplistic, it doesn't work.

If the ark story is real, it could only work because God interceded. If God could have interceded, He could have shown a little mercy to the innocent children and babies and just poofed them off the earth. But He didn't because He was so upset about how HIS creation turned out.

Instead he:
drowned them
buried them alive in mudslides
ripped apart their bodies in debris

Then He tells Noah that He won't do that again. That's very nice of Him.