I keep trying to believe in god, but I just can't anymore.

[JeremK]

1=Previous Books leaned either to hard teaching or very soft teaching, Quran brought balance. War verses does not mean to fight and kill all of non-Muslims.

There are many verses praising pious people of previous religions. Quran is the final and perfect message. But it acknowledges pious people of other previous religions too. These are the ones to whom true message of Islam is not properly reached.

You may read details about war related verses at
http://www.alislam.org/quran/tafseer/guide.htm?region=E1


2=Please note, there is no abrogation in Holy Quran

Image

Translation : [2:107] Whatever Sign We abrogate or cause to be forgotten, We bring one better than that or the like thereof. Dost thou not know that Allah has the power to do all that He wills?

The fourth word from right to left is:
اية = This word and its plural has been used hundreds of time in Holy Quran in various senses. Generally it is translated as 'Sign'. Discussion and uses in Quran can be found from

pages 46-48 @ https://www.alislam.org/quran/dictionary/dictionary_quran.pdf

More for your enlightenment: http://www.alislam.org/egazette/upd...-is-composed-of-verses-cancelling-each-other/

Okay, I'm sorry, but there have been over 28,000 terrorist attacks from Muslims since 9/11. I don't want this to be true, but it is. It's not a peaceful faith at all. Also, the abrogation (or, lack thereof) doesn't matter much. It's the fact that hundreds of thousands have been killed in the name of Islam this century. Even moderate Muslims sentence people to death for apostasy and homosexuality, among other things, that bothers me.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Islamist_terrorist_attacks
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/

 

[DawudTalut]

Okay, I'm sorry, but there have been over 28,000 terrorist attacks from Muslims since 9/11. I don't want this to be true, but it is. It's not a peaceful faith at all. .....

Peace be on you.
I am sorry too but these attacks are not because of Islam, these are because of :
1= Attackers not understanding and practicing true Islam, if they were practicing truly, they would be at peace with each other at least.
2= Attackers act as carriers for some other hidden people.
3= Role of clergy and politicians.

The solution and reformation is prophesied and is in process at www.alislam.org

 

[Twilight Hue]

I deconverted from Catholicism because I stopped believing in the supernatural, realized that the Bible was fallible, and discovered that I was an LGBT person. However, since my deconversion, I've had lots of internal conflict over religion. It has significantly decreased lately, but it's still there to an extent.

For the past few weeks, I've continually shifted between atheism and Christianity. Additionally, I've been reading Mere Christianity by CS Lewis and The God Delusion by Richard Dawkins at the same time to remain truly open-minded. For me, Islam is now out of the equation because I can't get over the more violent verses in the Quran and find that the concept of abrogation falsifies the entire religion for me.

I'm kind of an angry person, and my wrath has brought me two injuries lately. One left a scar on my left hand's index finger, and the other fractured my wrist. Since then, I've gotten a lot calmer and less angry, but I'm wondering whether or not that's some kind of "sign" from God telling me to come back to him.

When I ask for the holy spirit to come to me, I definitely feel some kind of positive presence, but it could definitely be a placebo. However, no matter what, I just can't get over the contradictions in the Bible, and I disagree with its views on suicide, abortion, gender roles, and LGBT action. I also don't want to be delusional. What should I do?

Get the remainder out of your system. I just kept believing until I simply couldn't anymore on natural terms.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

I've also started looking at http://www.reasonablefaith.org, and while a lot of what it says makes sense to me, I fear that scripture is still impossible for me to accept. For example, according to its page on God's existence, it makes sense for God to exist for the following five reasons:

1. God makes sense of the origin of the universe.

2. God makes sense of the fine-tuning of the universe for intelligent life.

3. God makes sense of objective moral values in the world.

4. God makes sense of the life, death, and resurrection of Jesus.

5. God can be immediately known and experienced.

I can agree with points 1, 2, 3, and 5, but I don't know if I can agree with the fourth. :/

If you want to stay in the Abrahamic religions, all other Abrahamics interestingly enough dont share the same belief as christians in regards to number four. (Sometimes I think. How can all the rest of the abrahamkcs be wrong when they agree about the nature of christ as opposed to christianity; makes me think christianity is in error. Thats just me).

Take christianity out. There are many many beliefs that focus on god without jesus as its core tenant. A lot of which, even with its bad history too in my opinion are more attractive than worshiping someone else's choice to die for others in a manner not directly related to saving anyone but only how that christian perceives salvation.

Anyway, I mean in my example everything and most everyone around me are christian. I attempted christianity and it didnt work. I got advice that accept what I believe and practice it without tryinf to fit my practices in any type of structure. So, I practice and have no religion.

UU may help you a lot with community and acceptence with identity. With religion, especially christianity, Id chuck it (in regards to your OP), believe and trust in god, and ask him how to practice. That sounds more healthier than trying to stay in a box you feel incomfortable in.

 

[First Baseman]

I've also started looking at http://www.reasonablefaith.org, and while a lot of what it says makes sense to me, I fear that scripture is still impossible for me to accept. For example, according to its page on God's existence, it makes sense for God to exist for the following five reasons:

1. God makes sense of the origin of the universe.

2. God makes sense of the fine-tuning of the universe for intelligent life.

3. God makes sense of objective moral values in the world.

4. God makes sense of the life, death, and resurrection of Jesus.

5. God can be immediately known and experienced.

I can agree with points 1, 2, 3, and 5, but I don't know if I can agree with the fourth. :/

What's wrong with the fourth? If the other four are true resurrection should be no problem for an all-powerful God. I mean if He can create the universe why can't he resurrect His own Son?

 

[1AOA1]

(Sometimes I think. How can all the rest of the abrahamkcs be wrong when they agree about the nature of christ as opposed to christianity; makes me think christianity is in error. Thats just me).

You can choose the criteria for a lifestyle to be Christian. Christians can all disagree based on who you determine to be practicing Christianity based on the criteria you use to identify the holy life.

 

[fantome profane]

I deconverted from Catholicism because I stopped believing in the supernatural, realized that the Bible was fallible, and discovered that I was an LGBT person. However, since my deconversion, I've had lots of internal conflict over religion. It has significantly decreased lately, but it's still there to an extent.

For the past few weeks, I've continually shifted between atheism and Christianity. Additionally, I've been reading Mere Christianity by CS Lewis and The God Delusion by Richard Dawkins at the same time to remain truly open-minded. For me, Islam is now out of the equation because I can't get over the more violent verses in the Quran and find that the concept of abrogation falsifies the entire religion for me.

I'm kind of an angry person, and my wrath has brought me two injuries lately. One left a scar on my left hand's index finger, and the other fractured my wrist. Since then, I've gotten a lot calmer and less angry, but I'm wondering whether or not that's some kind of "sign" from God telling me to come back to him.

When I ask for the holy spirit to come to me, I definitely feel some kind of positive presence, but it could definitely be a placebo. However, no matter what, I just can't get over the contradictions in the Bible, and I disagree with its views on suicide, abortion, gender roles, and LGBT action. I also don't want to be delusional. What should I do?

Keep searching for truth, whatever that truth may be. The truth may not be what you want it to be, but trust in yourself that you can handle it. That is the only faith you really need, the faith in yourself that you can accept the truth.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

You can choose the criteria for a lifestyle to be Christian. Christians can all disagree based on who you determine to be practicing Christianity based on the criteria you use to identify the holy life.

Im sorry. I dont understand what you mean. Please rephrase.

 

[ThePainefulTruth]

I've also started looking at http://www.reasonablefaith.org, and while a lot of what it says makes sense to me, I fear that scripture is still impossible for me to accept. For example, according to its page on God's existence, it makes sense for God to exist for the following five reasons:

1. God makes sense of the origin of the universe.

I think it's obvious, if God exists, our problem is accepting that God doesn't intervene in the universe, and we have to learn to live with the doubt and unknown and that prayer for God's intervention is pointless. We must learn to move on and find our reasons for living on our own.

2. God makes sense of the fine-tuning of the universe for intelligent life

If God caused the universe, there's no need for fine tuning..

3. God makes sense of objective moral values in the world.

We evolved, purposefully(?), with full self-awareness. That's all we need for an internal moral compass. We just need to keep watch on that compass, and not to add all kinds of other non-immoral behavior (LGBT) to the short list of actual, objective, immoral behavior.

4. God makes sense of the life, death, and resurrection of Jesus.

Jesus was just another man, and in fact he got it pretty wrong. I feel sure he was crucified for leading an insurrection against the Temple thinking God would reinhabit the Temple and rule from there when he did. But the universe continues to show that God will always be a no show--in this life....if It exists.

5. God can be immediately known and experienced.

That would be as much of a violation of God's laissez-faire policy as parting the Red Sea. The biggest part of this test is whether we do the right thing without God looking over our shoulder. And knowing that God exists would be all we'd need to feel for sure that God is watching.

 

[djhwoodwerks]

I think it's obvious, if God exists, our problem is accepting that God doesn't intervene in the universe, and we have to learn to live with the doubt and unknown and that prayer for God's intervention is pointless. We must learn to move on and find our reasons for living on our own.

Why do you think God should intervene in the world? Sounds like you are mad at God for the way the world is. Is that why you choose to deny Him?

 

[ThePainefulTruth]

Why do you think God should intervene in the world? Sounds like you are mad at God for the way the world is. Is that why you choose to deny Him?

I don't deny God, and the reason I'm not an atheist is because I hope that God exists. But the evidence (Truth) indicates that God, if It does exist, doesn't intervene or interact--and the obvious reason for that is so as not to undermine our free will, which is what I believe is why God created the universe, to engender it in us. I'm merely saying that we should accept that situation, be thankful for our gift of free will, then live with the doubt by worshiping Truth which may or may not turn out to be divine. We could only be right to do so, since God, if It exists, would be the embodiment of Truth.

 

[ThePainefulTruth]

Keep searching for truth, whatever that truth may be. The truth may not be what you want it to be, but trust in yourself that you can handle it. That is the only faith you really need, the faith in yourself that you can accept the truth.

Yes. I think we're saying the same thing. (see above)

 

[fantome profane]

I don't deny God, and the reason I'm not an atheist is because I hope that God exists. But the evidence (Truth) indicates that God, if It does exist, doesn't intervene or interact--and the obvious reason for that is so as not to undermine our free will, which is what I believe is why God created the universe, to engender it in us. I'm merely saying that we should accept that situation, be thankful for our gift of free will, then live with the doubt by worshiping Truth which may or may not turn out to be divine. We could only be right to do so, since God, if It exists, would be the embodiment of Truth.

Yes. I think we're saying the same thing. (see above)

I don't think we are saying the same thing at all, in fact I think we are saying the exact opposite. You are saying that the reason you believe God exists (the reason you are not an atheist) is because you hope God exists. I am saying that what we hope should not have any impact at all on what we believe. I hope I have a hundred thousand dollars in my bank account. But that is not what the evidence indicates. Now I could explain the evidence of my bank statements by saying that the bank doesn't want me to know I have an hundred thousand dollars so they hide the evidence of my wealth. But regardless of what I hope to be the truth, the obvious answer is that I aint got a lot o money.

You say the obvious answer to the lack of evidence for God is "so as not to undermine our free will". This is not the obvious answer. Just as the obvious answer to my deficient bank account is not that the bank wants engender a strong work ethic in me. The obvious answer to my bank account is that I don't earn that much money, and I spend too much and so I don't have $100 000. The "free will" explanation for the lack of evidence of God is not the obvious answer, in fact I would say that this is a pathetic ad hoc rationalization. It should only take a moment of consideration to realize what the actual obvious answer to the lack of evidence for God really is. But it will take a certain degree of courage for some people to acknowledge the obvious answer. Some people will not be able to see the obvious answer because they "hope that God exist".

 

[LuisDantas]

What should I do?

I would advise you to simply accept yourself.

If you feel that God exists, with whatever degree of correspondence to the expectations of whichever faith or faiths, then you believe in the existence of God and that is that. It does not need to be a source of anxiety.

Obviously, it is ok if you don't believe as well. Or even if you oscillate all the time, purposefully or otherwise.

It is truly a very personal matter.

Edited to add: Maybe it can help if you consider how much of a practical difference, if any, the existence of God makes when it comes to what you can or should do with your life. You just might find out that it is not very much after all.

 

[ThePainefulTruth]

I don't think we are saying the same thing at all, in fact I think we are saying the exact opposite. You are saying that the reason you believe God exists (the reason you are not an atheist) is because you hope God exists. I am saying that what we hope should not have any impact at all on what we believe.

What do we do then when there's no evidence for or against the existence of God either way (quite possibly by divine design, but we can't use the absence of evidence as evidence).

I hope I have a hundred thousand dollars in my bank account. But that is not what the evidence indicates.

The evidence (I assume) indicates that it doesn't. There's no such evidence either way, for God.

Now I could explain the evidence of my bank statements by saying that the bank doesn't want me to know I have an hundred thousand dollars so they hide the evidence of my wealth. But regardless of what I hope to be the truth, the obvious answer is that I aint got a lot o money.

Equating God with a bank account is a bad analogy unless you're saying that money could appear in it supernaturally.

It should only take a moment of consideration to realize what the actual obvious answer to the lack of evidence for God really is. But it will take a certain degree of courage for some people to acknowledge the obvious answer. Some people will not be able to see the obvious answer because they "hope that God exist".

An obvious answer you avoid mentioning, and one I've been unable to come up with after a lifetime of consideration.

 

[fantome profane]

What do we do then when there's no evidence for or against the existence of God either way (quite possibly by divine design, but we can't use the absence of evidence as evidence).




The evidence (I assume) indicates that it doesn't. There's no such evidence either way, for God.



Equating God with a bank account is a bad analogy unless you're saying that money could appear in it supernaturally.



An obvious answer you avoid mentioning, and one I've been unable to come up with after a lifetime of consideration.

If as you say there is no evidence one way or the other that still does not justify filling in the gap with "hope". Hope still should play no role.

Bottom line is you can believe what you want to believe. But I would strongly discourage you from believing that I agree with you. I assure you there is strong evidence for the contrary.

Keep searching for truth, whatever that truth may be. The truth may not be what you want it to be ...

 

[Demonslayer]

Okay, I'm sorry, but there have been over 28,000 terrorist attacks from Muslims since 9/11. I don't want this to be true, but it is. It's not a peaceful faith at all. Also, the abrogation (or, lack thereof) doesn't matter much. It's the fact that hundreds of thousands have been killed in the name of Islam this century.

The faith itself has nothing to do with it, the current culture around the faith has everything to do with it.

Christianity has killed more by far over the course of time, just considering the Crusades, the Inquisition and the Pope-led witch hunts. Just 200 years ago a society that was 99% Christian kept, beat, raped and killed human slaves quoting Bible verse as justification. The faith itself has not changed, has it? Christianity remains the same as it did 200 years ago and 700 years ago when these incredibly violent things were going on. Why, then do we see far less faith-based killing in Christianity today vs. Islam today?

It's not a "peaceful religion" vs. a "violent religion" issue. Taken in a vacuum, Islam and Christianity are exactly the same when it comes to messages of violence vs. peace. The fact of the matter is that today secularism holds the worst of Christian based violence in check because Christianity exists in secular nations. There are no Christian theocracies. Islam has grown so violent in this era because Islam exists in theocracies where no secular law governs the madness of religious law. Imagine drawing a line around the Bible Belt in America and carving out a separate country where religious law ruled...how long before leaders like Pastor Curtis Knapp would be enacting laws based on the Bible where the government put gay people to death? He suggested this very thing in 2012. Or before gays and lesbians were imprisoned behind electric fences, as Pastor Charles Worley suggested also in 2012? If the super-religious populace of this new Christian Theocracy supported it and no other system of laws prevented it, it would happen very quickly.

Not that I want to stick up for Islam because IMO all religions are divisive and damaging to society as a whole. Just that people need to have a proper understanding of why we see religious based violence. It is NOT that one religion is inherently more violent than the other. It is the social framework surrounding that religion in a particular time and place, plus mitigating factors such as secularism (or lack thereof) that determine the level of violence we see coming out of the various religions.

 

[ThePainefulTruth]

If as you say there is no evidence one way or the other that still does not justify filling in the gap with "hope". Hope still should play no role.

So the choice is between oblivion or an afterlife which ostensibly would have its rewards. Yet you so, with no other evidence to work with, I should let hope play no role, even though that's the only option other than apathy I have.

Bottom line is you can believe what you want to believe. But I would strongly discourage you from believing that I agree with you. I assure you there is strong evidence for the contrary.

Yet you say:

Keep searching for truth, whatever that truth may be. The truth may not be what you want it to be

That's basically an exact quote of what I've been saying for the last 20 years. Yet you say we don't agree. If so, there must be some hidden meanings in there I'm too ignorant to comprehend, or you're using that as cover for an agenda you don't want to own up to...somehow.

 

[fantome profane]

That's basically an exact quote of what I've been saying for the last 20 years.

This ..

Keep searching for truth, whatever that truth may be. The truth may not be what you want it to be, but trust in yourself that you can handle it. That is the only faith you really need, the faith in yourself that you can accept the truth.

is the exact opposite of this ...

I'm not an atheist is because I hope that God exists.

If you are not an atheist because you hope that God exists then you are not searching for whatever the truth may be. If you believe is something because you hope it to be true than you are refusing to accept the reality that the truth may not be what you want it to be.

So maybe you have been saying this ...

Keep searching for truth, whatever that truth may be. The truth may not be what you want it to be, but trust in yourself that you can handle it. That is the only faith you really need, the faith in yourself that you can accept the truth.

for the last 20 years. I don't know. All I know is that in the post you directed my attention to, and said that I agree you said this....

I'm not an atheist is because I hope that God exists.

This is a direct contradiction of what I said, and apparently according to you it is a direct contradiction of what you have been saying for the last 20 years. So if you wish now to say that you agree with my statement and disagree with your statement, fine. Then we agree, we both disagree with you.

Maybe you really are of two minds about this, fine. I disagree with one of your minds.

 

[Milton Platt]

I've also started looking at http://www.reasonablefaith.org, and while a lot of what it says makes sense to me, I fear that scripture is still impossible for me to accept. For example, according to its page on God's existence, it makes sense for God to exist for the following five reasons:

1. God makes sense of the origin of the universe.

Why???

2. God makes sense of the fine-tuning of the universe for intelligent life.

The universe is not fine tuned for life. Most of it is uninhabitable and deadly to life. To say that earth was made for life is like saying that a hole filled with water was made for the water because the water fits into it so perfectly.

3. God makes sense of objective moral values in the world.

Morals are quite subjective and vary from culture to culture. Even if there was a god, they would still be subjective (to his own whims). You could say that once a group of people agree on a set of rules, morality is objectively based upon those rules, I suppose. If morality were to be truly objective, then even if there were a god, he would by subject to them as well because they would exist independently of him and he would not be the source of them. The Christian god has clearly supported some things in the Old Testament that most people would think of as immoral today.

4. God makes sense of the life, death, and resurrection of Jesus.

How? And there is no independent confirmation that Jesus rose from the dead.

5. God can be immediately known and experienced.

Subjective experiences interpreted by an excitable mind influenced by what we want to believe? Hardly evidence for anything. How is it that people of various and often conflicting religious beliefs ( even differing gods) all have experiences???

I can agree with points 1, 2, 3, and 5, but I don't know if I can agree with the fourth. :/

Realize that if you remove the Jesus resurrection part, this same set of assertions can be used to support virtually any religion or god you choose. That should tell you something about the assertions.