I know not all Muslims are Islamists, but...

[Assad91]

......... yet so far, no single offer or suggestion has been made. No positive action recommended. However, this morning our media reports that our government is now looking to take action against all and any who incite any crimes against anybody for any reason. Our freedom of speech does not extend to incitement, provocation, threats, slanders and a whole list of other unacceptable actions.

********. Muslims do a lot to work against extremism. Chances are your head is just buried in the sand.

Like how you nonbelievers constantly go on about how no muslim leaders denounce terrorism, especially 9/11. Yet many fatwaa against terrorism, you just too ******* blind to look.

Of corse there will always be difference of opinions in our communities. But to paint us as a whole, or even the majority, who are political and accept the legitimacy of military target, does a disservice to the actual apolitical majority.

 

[Octavia156]

Chances are your head is just buried in the sand.

I think old badger was implying it might be the other way around!

You cannot divorce the act from its motive and its motive was based in radical Islam.

Just like the pope and the catholic chruch has had to apologise, answer for and do something about the paedophilic priests.... so should Islam apologise, answer for and do something about the horrendous things that occur because of the radicalisaed or perverted aspects of its existance.

 

[Octavia156]

Its also the kingdom that came into power after Muhammad ibn Abd Al wahhab linked with the Saud family in order to push his ideology.

Muhammad ibn Abd Al wahhab's Ideologies are based on ISLAM.

 

[Assad91]

I think old badger was implying it might be the other way around!

You cannot divorce the act from its motive and its motive was based in radical Islam.

Just like the pope and the catholic chruch has had to apologise, answer for and do something about the paedophilic priests.... so should Islam apologise, answer for and do something about the horrendous things that occur because of the radicalisaed or perverted aspects of its existance.

I guess you missed the point I had made. The mainstream muslim leaders have repeatedly denied, ruled against, and denounced terrorism and radical Islam. But as you show, you don't pay attention.

 

[Assad91]

Muhammad ibn Abd Al wahhab's Ideologies are based on ISLAM.

Actually no. He was against mainstream Sunni Islam, so he rewrote, came up with a new ideology that was puritanical and against Islam practiced by the majority. He resembled are kharijite, the historically heretical group.

 

[oldbadger]

********. Muslims do a lot to work against extremism. Chances are your head is just buried in the sand.

Was the blanked out word an insult? Head in sand? I don't think so.

Like how you nonbelievers constantly go on about how no muslim leaders denounce terrorism, especially 9/11. Yet many fatwaa against terrorism, you just too ******* blind to look.

Nonbeliever? Have I constantly gone-on about the above? No.
Fatwas against terrorism? We don't want your fatwas....... we want the muslim communities to work hand-in-hand with all groups (that includes homosexuals, women, christians, agnostics ..... the whole populace.... everybody!) to reduce and if possible eliminate all this crime and terror.

Of corse there will always be difference of opinions in our communities. But to paint us as a whole, or even the majority, who are political and accept the legitimacy of military target, does a disservice to the actual apolitical majority.

Excuse me, but you just painted all us 'non-believers' in your second para.....?
And how is a civilian plane a military target. A young man in civvies in a street. Planned bomb attacks on shoppers (last month)......?

It goes on........ and you offer nothing. By the way, what country do you live in? You don't give much information......

 

[LuisDantas]

It seems to me that you are attempting to present the views that you believe to be typical as so typical that there is no need to actually understand and address the evidence of serious exceptions.

While the appeal is understandable, that just can't work.

In fact, I don't see how this thread can make much of a coherent point without addressing at least some of the questions I made in page 2.

 

[Revoltingest]

********. Muslims do a lot to work against extremism. Chances are your head is just buried in the sand.

It would serve you better if you offered links showing how peaceful Muslims work to oppose terrorism.
Since the media fail in this, here's your opportunity to convince the critics. (It's much better than
calling the badger a *******. I already insult him plenty.)

 

[Assad91]

It would serve you better if you offered links showing how peaceful Muslims work to oppose terrorism.
Since the media fail in this, here's your opportunity to convince the critics. (It's much better than
calling the badger a *******. I already insult him plenty.)

The censored word was not an insult. All I said was bull___

And of corse the media fails. After what happened in London, who does the media call? Not any mainstream representatives, instead they call a well known extremist.

As for some links, my pleasure.

[youtube]3GOXmiGCNsU[/youtube]
Sheikh Hamza Yusuf - Interview on BBC - Jihad VS Terrorism - YouTube
Hamza Yusuf on Terrorism

Why Not Outspoken About Renouncing Terrorism? - WorldView - counsels - OnIslam.net

Against Terrorism (Fatwa) - onislam.net/english

 

[Assad91]

Nonbeliever? Have I constantly gone-on about the above? No.
Fatwas against terrorism? We don't want your fatwas....... we want the muslim communities to work hand-in-hand with all groups (that includes homosexuals, women, christians, agnostics ..... the whole populace.... everybody!) to reduce and if possible eliminate all this crime and terror.

Muslims work in the muslim communities. What do working with homosexuals, (nonmuslim) women, christians, agnostics, have anything to do with anti-terrorism?

Excuse me, but you just painted all us 'non-believers' in your second para.....?
And how is a civilian plane a military target. A young man in civvies in a street. Planned bomb attacks on shoppers (last month)......?

They are not. Have I said they were?

It goes on........ and you offer nothing. By the way, what country do you live in? You don't give much information......

I offer plenty. What country I live in matter? Would it matter if I lived in your country? lol

 

[oldbadger]

Muslims work in the muslim communities. What do working with homosexuals, (nonmuslim) women, christians, agnostics, have anything to do with anti-terrorism?

Because they are people who live alongside of Muslim communities. People. So all people, regardless of who they are, need to be listened to. Terrorism is happening within our communities, so the people who live in our communities need to come together.

They are not. Have I said they were?

I offer plenty. What country I live in matter? Would it matter if I lived in your country? lol

So you don't live in England. OK. Obviously you have the right to remain as anonymous as possible.

Look........ 1 question for you. Just one.
Supposing that you are a parent, and you have (say) a ten year old son, and you are walking past a street meeting where a Muslim leader of some sort is advocating action against (say) homosexuals and/or other infidels (right word?) in your community, would you:-
1. Take him forward to listen, and encourage the speaker's viewpoint?
2. Tell him not to take any notice of such extremist hatred, and warn him against such bigotry?

What would you do?

 

[oldbadger]

(It's much better than calling the badger a *******. I already insult him plenty.)

I never said we should include Scots in any debate.
Now, Scots......... yyyyyuuuuukkkkk!
They wear funny skirts an' stuff. And talk funny.

Just because I'm a Geordie (Newcastle central) and Yorkshire folk call us 'Scotsmen with our brains bashed out', it doesn't mean that we should be holding hands with Northern barbarians.

 

[Katzpur]

I know not all Muslims are Islamists, but...All Islamists are Muslims.

i think you are mixing between Islamist and terrorists, i think you are talking about terrorists...

Ya gotta love it, don't ya? Last time I knew, all Muslims actually do believe in Islam.

And then, of course, there are those "Muhammadans." :areyoucra

 

[Assad91]

Look........ 1 question for you. Just one.
Supposing that you are a parent, and you have (say) a ten year old son, and you are walking past a street meeting where a Muslim leader of some sort is advocating action against (say) homosexuals and/or other infidels (right word?) in your community, would you:-
1. Take him forward to listen, and encourage the speaker's viewpoint?
2. Tell him not to take any notice of such extremist hatred, and warn him against such bigotry?

What would you do?

What position do you think I will do? Because I am offended you feel the need to even ask me.

 

[oldbadger]

Ya gotta love it, don't ya? Last time I knew, all Muslims actually do believe in Islam.

And then, of course, there are those "Muhammadans." :areyoucra

Hi...... last time I posted to you I had to apologise because I had been grouchy over that fox that attacked our ducks! Remember?

I understand your point. Can I try to explain? I think the Brit press tends to use the word 'Islamist' when reporting terrorist attacks that Muslims were involved in.

Because of that, the Brit press might not refer to a reasonable peaceful Muslim as an 'Islamist'. So....... people who read Brit papers and follow Brit media might tend to separate those two words. Octavia lives in the UK.

This might be wrong of the press, but..... well...... what do you think?

And how do you think that the Muslim community and its leaders could help to reduce such 'Islamist' crimes?

 

[oldbadger]

What position do you think I will do? Because I am offended you feel the need to even ask me.

You found it difficult to answer? I could not guess what your answer might be. I do not prejudge so....

And so, I ask again:-
Supposing that you are a parent, and you have (say) a ten year old son, and you are walking past a street meeting where a Muslim leader of some sort is advocating action against (say) homosexuals and/or other infidels (right word?) in your community, would you:-
1. Take him forward to listen, and encourage the speaker's viewpoint?
2. Tell him not to take any notice of such extremist hatred, and warn him against such bigotry?

What would you do?

 

[LuisDantas]

Are you all sure that you have the same understanding of what an "Islamist" is? No one bothered to try and explain his or her own so far.

 

[oldbadger]

Are you all sure that you have the same understanding of what an "Islamist" is? No one bothered to try and explain his or her own so far.

Hi.....

You might not have read my post number 35, which was quite close to yours.
I have tried to explain how the Brit press tends to use the word 'Islamist'. I do not believe that the press would refer to a peaceful Muslim as 'Islamist'.

How about your country's use of the words?

 

[LuisDantas]

Hi, and thanks.

Do you mean Brazilians? I don't think the word "islamistas" (the literal adaptation into Portuguese) is used with any frequency at all, or that it would be often understood to mean anything different from "Muslim".

Brazilians are generally fairly relaxed about mixing cultures, ethnies and ancestries. As for the political aspects, mostly everyone here is somewhat resigned to a degree of irrelevancy in our own politics. Even our Muslims, I assume.

 

[dust1n]

Not sure... what do you call someone in ignorant denial?

I'm just going to drop this here:

During the War on Terror, civilians suffered the greatest number of deaths. The Iraq Body Count documented between 100 and 110,000 civilians who died violent deaths since 2003 (whereas WikiLeaks only mentions 15,000 civilian deaths in its WarLogs).


A study published in The Lancet medical journal estimated that there were 654,965 deaths between 2003 and 2006 – representing 2.5% of the Iraqi population. This would suggest that today the statistic would be updated to about 1,455,590 casualties.
If the figures published in The Lancet are controversial, the estimated number of victims from the Iraqi War could range from 100,000 to over one million.


According to the UN, in Afghanistan the number of civilians killed since 2006 would be “only” 9,759, of which 6,269 were killed by antigovernment forces, and 2,723 by coalition or regular army forces. Another 6,300 to 23,600 civilian deaths resulting directly or indirectly from the war between 2001 – 2003 should be added to this statistic.

The War on Terror in numbers » OWNI.eu, News, Augmented