I know not all Muslims are Islamists, but...

[YmirGF]

Actually, I think the term "Muhammadan" was used (incorrectly) back in the early and mid-1900s. I believe many Christians knew so little about Islam that they referred to its followers as "Muhammadans" instead of "Muslims." I know I heard the term as a small child, and only later came to realize that there really is no such word.

Yeah... tell me about it. We humans love to characterize entire groups of people by finding the worst possible examples in that group and claiming that all members of the group are like the worst ones. ("So seriously stupid" is a good way of putting it.)

When I was a kid, (1950's) I think that was the first time I heard the word Mussulman. It was in a London restaurant and an Eastern man came in with a group of people. A man with a loud voice said , 'What's a Mussulman doing it here!?' In England the press tend to use 'Moslem', and so I thought that was correct, but an RF member suggested I not use it months ago. So now, if somebody uses a word I would not, I look to see what country they live in, because it might be ok there.


Humans seem to polarise into groups. In Essex county, England, there are two towns close by each other, Basildon and Billericay. In the 60's the youths from both towns often set out to kick hell out of each other. What about football supporters? I have heard that Ozzies and Kiwis have attitudes about each other; maybe an Oz member could verify that. I don't think there are any Kiwi members....

In actuality, the term Mohammedan was coined by "Orientalists", "Western" scholars who studied Islam and strange "Eastern" religions, much earlier than the 1900's. It was initially an attempt to describe the adoration that Muslims have for their prophet. In some regards, "Mohammedan" accurately portrays the "personality cult" aspect of Islam quite well, given Muslims feelings towards Muhammad - as seen by outsiders.

Like Katzpur, I grew up in the 60's thinking the "Mohammedan faith" and "Islam" were two different things. So, in short, it was not the average people who started using the expression, but rather, scholars who coined the expression that trickled down to the masses from Academia.


Likewise, the term Mussulman is simply an archaic version of the term Muslim, that was used in several languages.

 

[oldbadger]

I would suspect he was being sarcastic.

Suspect? So you have no idea either?

I would also wonder why you asked the question in the first place.

It was all explained in an earlier post. In my opinion it could be difficult for those who give answer 1 to come together with all other persons in a community to discover how they might live in harmony. Does that explain it for you?

Perhaps you might have some good suggestions as to how harmony between atheists, agnostics, christians, buddhists, sikhs, muslims and all could be achieved?

I think that there was a huge statue of Buddha somewhere in Afghanistan, and I read that some Muslims pulled it down. This happened several years ago. Did you hear about that? You see..... such disharmony can exist in all kinds of ways. We need harmony.

 

[Assad91]

Hi........

Question:- What do you think of the word 'Moslem'? Is it wrong?

Moslem. I wonder what that is

 

[Assad91]

Suspect? So you have no idea either?

Seems some can't tell sarcasm unless its noted. Life must be a bit bland huh?

 

[LuisDantas]

Moslem. I wonder what that is

A former spelling of "Muslim". If it is considered offensive, I really don't know why it would be.

 

[oldbadger]

I found it relatively funny, considering it played off a loaded rhetorical question in a humorous way.

No rhetoric there. This was happening a few days ago in Waltham.

I also find it relative funny how far some are willing to go in criticizing billions of people they've never met based on what they don't do, despite higher poverty (to deal and cope with) than the British population, and ability to actually be able to do anything anyways.

Funny? You find it funny? May the good Lord help us......... Its deadly serious. Oh! Sorry! You were using rhetoric....

I wonder how many who are having fun attempting to criticize the "average" Muslim for being much like the average person have actually themselves made any strives to reduce violence or racial tensions in their own community...

Perhaps you could share your own past successes in similar fields of disharmony with us? Or are you an armchair critic?

 

[Assad91]

A former spelling of "Muslim". If it is considered offensive, I really don't know why it would be.

Muslim, moslem, moslum, etc, Arabic can be transliterated in many ways. I just find weird random questions bordering offenses, offensive.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Moslem. I wonder what that is

From Wikipedia ...

The word muslim (Arabic: مسلم‎, IPA: [ˈmʊslɪm]; English /ˈmʌzlɨm/, /ˈmʊzlɨm/, /ˈmʊslɨm/ or moslem /ˈmɒzləm/, /ˈmɒsləm/) is the participle of the same verb of which islām is the infinitive, based on the triliteral S-L-M "to be whole, intact". A female adherent is a muslima (Arabic: مسلمة&#8206. The plural form in Arabic is muslimūn (مسلمو&#1606, and its feminine equivalent is muslimāt (مسلما&#1578. The Arabic form muslimun is the stem IV participle of the triliteral S-L-M. [source]

Shin-Lamedh-Mem is the triconsonantal root of many Semitic words, and many of those words are used as names. The root meaning translates to "whole, safe, intact". Derived from this are meanings of "to be safe, secure, at peace", hence "well-being, health" and passively "to be secured, pacified, submitted".

• East Semitic S-L-M
• Northwest Semitic Š-L-M
  • Canaanite Š-L-M (c.f. Shalem)
  • Hebrew: שלם‎ Š-L-M
  • Aramaic: ܫܠܡ‎ Š-L-M
  Arabic: س ل م‎ S-L-M (Maltese: S-L-M)

[source]

Interesting.

Salaam / Shalom​

 

[Agnostic75]

Edit: Deletion of duplicate post.

 

[Octavia156]

Hi All

Just to confirm what I meant in the OP

Islamist means:
1) Being actively pro the Islamification of the the World
2) Commits violent acts or makes anti-western speeches to incite hatred of Western ideas
3) Plots to kill non-believers, kills non-believers, thinks non-believres should be wiped out
4) Tries to instil Islamic/Sharia law wherever possible

So not quite as simple as "a Muslim that commits violent acts".
Any Muslim who privately or opening attempts to evangelise or twart western liberties in the name of Allah is a Islamist to me.

 

[Agnostic75]

The fact is these terrorists say they are doing it for you... or your God supposedly... doesn't matter how many billion people are in the same state of denial.

Facts are facts - Men who call themselves Muslims are murdering innocent people on the streets in the name of Islam....

What other religion is doing this today?

An article by a gifted amateur skeptic at his blog at Is Sympathy for Terrorist Acts a Muslim Monopoly? | Vridar shows that there is widespread opposition by Muslims to terrorism.

 

[Assad91]

"evengalize" or dawa makes one an islamist? There are many islamist than lol

 

[Octavia156]

Seems some can't tell sarcasm unless its noted. Life must be a bit bland huh?

Considering that an innocnet person recently got beheaded in broad daylight in the name of Islam - its hardly the time to be using sarcasm to put your point across.

It was a serious question and it deserves a serious repsonse.

Your avoidance of the question and subsequent sarcasm made it difficult for me to believe you actually.

 

[LuisDantas]

Of those four criteria, only the third (to a smaller degree the second) are clearly reprehemsible.

 

[Assad91]

Considering that an innocnet person recently got beheaded in broad daylight in the name of Islam - its hardly the time to be using sarcasm to put your point across.

It was a serious question and it deserves a serious repsonse.

Your avoidance of the question and subsequent sarcasm made it difficult for me to believe you actually.

You posed a question in the post I responded to? Huh, and I thought you was just defining what an Islamist was.

 

[Octavia156]

"evengalize" or dawa makes one an islamist? There are many islamist than lol

I know!

Again - not an laughing matter.

Anyone who attempts to convert or twart my beliefs, freedoms or introduce inhumane laws into my country is acting like a facist.

Evalgelism that involves the killing of innocent people has no place in the modern rational world. I don't care what people want to believe, just don't shove it in my face... try and suggest I'm less worthy than you, kill my countrymen in the name of your God or attempt to introduce fascists ideologies.

Did you know our NHS has to offer hymen replacement treatment to young Muslims girls at risk of being beaten or murdered by their family. My taxes are paying for this... and all because supposed "Modertate Muslims" live here.
Disgusting.

 

[Assad91]

I answered the silly, overly generalizing question in the op. My sarcasm came about due to offensive, bigotdd question s

 

[Assad91]

I know!

Again - not an laughing matter.

Anyone who attempts to convert or twart my beliefs, freedoms or introduce inhumane laws into my country is a facist.

Ash, see that its bigotry. You equate muslims who evangelize with extremist.

 

[LuisDantas]

This reminds me of when people wanted to ask whether others "were members of the Muslim Brotherhood". The unspoken premise was that those members are by definition people of violent behavior or their direct supporters.

It is no different from being offended by Watergate and deciding to ask whether people are Republicans.

 

[Octavia156]

Of those four criteria, only the third (to a smaller degree the second) are clearly reprehemsible.

You think so?

I'd say 1 was clearly a facist adenga akin to Hilter's

And 4 - well see above post RE Hymen replacement.

Sharia law practically permits women to be murdered if they dishonor their family..... and women who are beaten by their husbands are not permitted a divorce.

Not on my turf thanks - we are a FREE society thanks!