I really hate to bring this up...

[Jainarayan]

because I know it can start a **** storm, which I don't want (mods please use Moderatorial Discretion if necessary). It's along the lines of hypocrisy and slippery slope. I put it in the general Dharmic DIR to hear opinions of other Dharmic followers. We know 99.99998758367% of Hindus (OK, some hyperbole there ) will not eat beef. I am one of them who will not. I don't eat dessert gelatin or pudding, I am leery of the rennets used in cheeses (some say enzymes, which can be beef rennet or vegetable, who knows?). But what about leather? We (I) use leather products. You can't get away from it. Even a fabric belt will have leather tabs for closing. Wallets, purses, shoes, your steering wheel. We are using the by-products of a revered animal that is being slaughtered for consumption. :sad4: What makes us any better than the person who goes into a Long-Horn Steakhouse and orders a 16 oz. king cut?

 

[LuisDantas]

I don't know how widespread avoidance of beef eating actually is among Hindus.

But it seems to me that if one falls short of avoiding something that he finds undesirable, there is some merit in at least being conscious about it and attempting to cause as little damage as possible.

In this case, attempting to use the least leather one can. It may not be completely correct, but it is both pragmatically useful and a step towards training oneself towards being completely compliant.

Or so I like to think, anyway.

 

[Jainarayan]

I don't know how widespread avoidance of beef eating actually is among Hindus.

It's said to be almost universal. But of course, who has interviewed 1.1 billion Hindus?

But it seems to me that if one falls short of avoiding something that he finds undesirable, there is some merit in at least being conscious about it and attempting to cause as little damage as possible.

That's been my rationalization. In this age of Kali Yuga, things are not perfect, and we can only minimize harm and violence. I would not hunt or fish, for example.

In this case, attempting to use the least leather one can. It may not be completely correct, but it is both pragmatically useful and a step towards training oneself towards being completely compliant.

Or so I like to think, anyway.

I think you are right. For example, I need a new coat/jacket. It will not be leather. Shoes and belts are hard to get away from, but to avoid as much as possible is perhaps the way to go.

I needed a different perspective. Thanks.

 

[SageTree]

When I've been into Jain Temples they make you take everything that is leather off and leave it in the entrance way/coat room.

 

[Jainarayan]

I thought I'd find the same when I went to mandir, but it wasn't the case. The only things removed were shoes. Belts and handbags (which I doubt were 'pleather') were quite the norm.

 

[Gurtej]

Can anyone tell me if eating meat ( non beef ) is allowed in Hinduism ? And what is Hinduism view on ppl who eat meat including beef...

 

[Sumit]

Can anyone tell me if eating meat ( non beef ) is allowed in Hinduism ? And what is Hinduism view on ppl who eat meat including beef...

Teaching of Vedas do not advocate meat eating. However many Hindus are non vegetarians. According to Hinduism if you eat meat than your spiritual advancement is ceased and your nature becomes tamsik and you are easily prone to anger, greed, lust etc. However Hinduism is strictly against Beef eating. To understand this you can read a book name "Gaukarunanidhi".

 

[Gurtej]

Teaching of Vedas do not advocate meat eating. However many Hindus are non vegetarians. According to Hinduism if you eat meat than your spiritual advancement is ceased and your nature becomes tamsik and you are easily prone to anger, greed, lust etc. However Hinduism is strictly against Beef eating. To understand this you can read a book name "Gaukarunanidhi".

When u say do not advocate ... That means its strictly forbidden ? Also as I understand the reason for not eating meat is to avoid anger, lust , greed
Etc...so can I assume that all vegetarians are free from it and are
closer to god then non vegetarians .?

 

[Sumit]

Also as I understand the reason for not eating meat is to avoid anger, lust , greed
Etc...so can I assume that all vegetarians are free from it and are
closer to god then non vegetarians .?.?

No they are not free but through practice they attains control on senses but it's very hard for a meat eater (not impossible).

 

[En'me]

No they are not free but through practice they attains control on senses but it's very hard for a meat eater (not impossible).

I would beg to differ. I meet meat-eating people that have a balanced diet with meat consituting a proper percent of their diet along with veggies, fruits, nuts, etc and I see them as ones who live in the present and have high moral and ethical standards.

I am unsure how vegetarianism is supposed to help with controlling your mind; the nutrients find in meat can be replaced with a vegetarian diet and what is found in veggies can be replaced by meat (to an extent, ofcourse). Whether the body gets these nutrients from meat or from veggies and dairy, how does it affect the mind differently?

-------

To the original question: I am as of later trying to convince my family to start buying dairy from farms and not stores, not just because of an ahimsa perspective, but because of the antibiotics and pesticides found in them. Since a few months back, when I've thought of this, I've also thought, how hypocritical as a vegetarian I can be, promoting ahimsa yet buying deodorants, leather, soaps, etc. from stores instead going natural, since these products are tested on animals (or are animal skins, leather).

I really don't know if you can get away from leather, although, I have heard that when an animal dies a natural death of old age, that meat is indeed not usable anymore, i.e. edible, but the skin remains in condition well enough to be used to produce leather (the obvious benefit being, you can use the skin for leather without harming the animal). I fear though, this is only something I've heard to be true can be entirely untrue. Does anyone have a clue?

 

[Jainarayan]

When u say do not advocate ... That means its strictly forbidden ?

Afaik it's more like "strongly discourages". I don't think there are any "thou shalt not... " commandments.

 

[Jainarayan]

...I've also thought, how hypocritical as a vegetarian I can be, promoting ahimsa yet buying deodorants, leather, soaps, etc. from stores instead going natural, since these products are tested on animals (or are animal skins, leather).

I'm starting to draw my perspective from something someone on a vegetarian forum said in response to my comment about "rabid vegans" and the inherent arrogance and hypocrisy. Trees that bear nuts and fruits are shaken; what happens to the birds' nests and the hatchlings then? What happens to the animals that live in the trees harvested for lumber? What about the "collateral damage" from farming? She replied that in truth this is a journey. There are things you just can't get away from; you can only do the best you can do.

I really don't know if you can get away from leather, although, I have heard that when an animal dies a natural death of old age, that meat is indeed not usable anymore, i.e. edible, but the skin remains in condition well enough to be used to produce leather (the obvious benefit being, you can use the skin for leather without harming the animal). I fear though, this is only something I've heard to be true can be entirely untrue. Does anyone have a clue?

Gandhi made a comment that in death Mother Cow should still be respected and used for what she can provide. I don't remember anything about eating the meat or using the bones to cook, but to use the horns, bones, hide for other goods. If I can find the quote again I'll post it, but I fear it's one of those things I read once, it stuck in my mind, and is lost in cyberspace.

 

[Iti oj]

"Mother cow is as usefull dead as she is alive,"... found that with a quick google search might be more to it. The website had to many quotes to sift through but the google description had those words.

 

[Jainarayan]

Thanks, that sounds right. Nice to know I'm not crazy... well...

 

[Maya3]

There really are no commandments or rules that says that you must do this or that.
Things are recommended, but not everyone follows it. Hindus generally dont get upset at each other for not following certain things.

Diet makes a big difference when you meditate, and if you have eaten a lot of food that came to you through suffering it will affect your subconsciousness at least when you become more and more aware.

But, it is really hard to stay consistent, there are SO many things, soap, shoes, cheese, milk. I'm vegetarian, but I eat cheese and I wonder how the cow felt who made the milk that the cheese is made from.
And all the garbage we through in landfills, all the pollutants...
We are all one spirituality and physically and it has to affect us.

I think we are getting better at it though, people recycle more, try to buy organic and local, buy more humane products. Little by little we are getting there.

Maya

 

[Jainarayan]

Fortunately almost all commercial cheese today is made with vegetable rennet. Animal rennet is far too expensive to mass produce cheese. One less thing to worry about.

 

[Maya3]

Fortunately almost all commercial cheese today is made with vegetable rennet. Animal rennet is far too expensive to mass produce cheese. One less thing to worry about.

It usually tells you if it is animal rennet or microbiological rennet. If it only says rennet, I'm scared to buy it.

Maya

 

[Jainarayan]

I know what you mean, it's true you can't be 100% certain. Sometimes it will also say 'enzymes', or just 'rennet', which could be microbial, especially if it's a mass produced brand. There is a list on a website, something like joy of cheese that lists veg. friendly cheeses. Land O' Lakes is one of them.

 

[Andal]

This whole diet and leather thing really depends. I was taught that meat eating (non cow) is not appropriate for sadhus, sunyasis, and brahminical life styles as it does impact meditation practice. For those with a more rajasic life style it is permitted however once again it can prove to be an obstacle to spiritual realization. Also I know many strict Vaishnavas who regardless of standing in life maintain a lacto vegetarian life style. Personally I eat fish and eggs which among some Hindu communities is fine while in strict adherence to my sampradaya it would not be advisable.

We do the best we can and we do what we feel is right. Scripture and history can be used to justify either point of view.

Now onto the leather issue. I know Jains have strict rules, we do no though. Drum heads in the temple are made of cow hide very frequently (although in modern times we have synthetics). You can get synthetic leather if you are uncomfortable with it. I try to avoid leather as much as possible but once again it is personal choice. In india there are Hindu leather workers although they do not kill cattle for it. the cows die naturally.

Wow this maybe the most indecisive post I have ever made one here! Follow your heart, I'd say avoid wearing leather to the temple though.

Aum Hari Aum!

 

[Gurtej]

This is my view point. Eating meat( including beef) or not eating meat has no spiritual significance.
Jesus , Mohammad , some sikh gurus , etc all ate meat and were more closer to god then most if the non meat eaters.

Saying that if one think that eating meat is hindering with oneness with god then they can stop it whenever they want in the same way as if someone think that eating is fine. This whole meat eating debate never ends and will never end.
What will u say to someone living in Antarctica with no scope for vegetation?

But I strongly believe that killing the animal for personal benefits like shoes , belts etc is just wrong and I am sure all religions have the same point in that.