I see no value in atheism

[Willamena]

You've gone back to making no sense again. Believing something means "to accept a given proposition as being true". Where exactly do we disagree?

That the act of believing and the fact of believing can be discussed at the same time in the same context.

 

[ImmortalFlame]

That the act of believing and the fact of believing can be discussed at the same time in the same context.

Again, you're still not making any sense whatsoever. Believing is an act. What on earth is "the fact of believing" and why do you keep making up nonsensical concepts?

 

[leibowde84]

Lacking indicates absence.

"Lacking" is being used in its other form in this context. As you know, the term can mean either "absence" or "to be without", or it can mean to have an insufficient amount of something. In this comment, I was responding to the question of whether someone would be an "atheist" if they believed in God's existence, but had some doubts. Or, in other words, a person with insufficient faith in God's existence (hypothetically of course).

 

[Willamena]

If it does in fact exist, it is true regardless of my knowledge of it.

Yes: entirely imagined.

 

[Willamena]

"Lacking" is being used in its other form in this context. As you know, the term can mean either "absence" or "to be without", or it can mean to have an insufficient amount of something. In this comment, I was responding to the question of whether someone would be an "atheist" if they believed in God's existence, but had some doubts. Or, in other words, a person with insufficient faith in God's existence (hypothetically of course).

That is the difference between "lacking in belief," (deficiency) and "belief is lacking" (absence). You said the latter, hence I misunderstood.

 

[leibowde84]

Yes: entirely imagined.

So the planet does not exist in reality?

 

[leibowde84]

That is the difference between "lacking in belief," (deficiency) and "belief is lacking" (absence). You said the latter, hence I misunderstood.

You have those reversed.

"Lacking a belief" is being without that belief.

"Belief is lacking" means that the belief is insufficient.

 

[Willamena]

So the planet does not exist in reality?

How can we claim it does or doesn't?

Edit: To be imaginary is to contrast a thing with reality: if it's true in reality we can imagine it false, and if it's false in reality we can imagine it true. If it's neither true nor false in reality, it's sole existence is imaginary. Such is the hypothetical, the speculative, the projected, and the possible.

Being neither true nor false in reality means we must know it to be able to affirm or deny it. To affirm that it's true or false (has a truth value) without knowing it is realism.

 

[Willamena]

You have those reversed.

"Lacking a belief" is being without that belief.

"Belief is lacking" means that the belief is insufficient.

I don't think so. When I'm lacking in vitamin C, I'm deficient. When vitamin C is lacking, it's absent.

 

[leibowde84]

How can we claim it does or doesn't?

Edit: To be imaginary is to contrast a thing with reality: if it's true in reality we can imagine it false, and if it's false in reality we can imagine it true. If it's neither true nor false in reality, it's sole existence is imaginary. Such is the hypothetical, the speculative, the projected, and the possible.

Being neither true nor false in reality means we must know it to be able to affirm or deny it. To affirm that it's true or false (has a truth value) without knowing it is realism.

We can't, or shouldn't, claim anything about the planet. Why/how would we?

 

[JoStories]

They are exactly the same thing. To believe a claim is to assert the truth of that claim.


They are both exactly the same. Atheism is the lack of belief in the proposition that a God exists. Disbelief means simply "not believing". "Disbelieving the theist" means exactly the same thing as "disbelieving in God".


But the question was could you choose to become an atheist now? Everything you just said indicates strongly that your beliefs are not a matter of choice: you could only "choose" not to be a theist as a consequence of things being presented to you that may cause you to change your mind.

Mea culpa for misundstanding, and to answer you correctly, no, I could not choose atheism at this point.

 

[leibowde84]

I don't think so. When I'm lacking in vitamin C, I'm deficient. When vitamin C is lacking, it's absent.

Both of these examples would use the meaning of "deficient". The word "lacking" cannot be used in this way. Only the word "lack" can be used to describe "absence".

When you say "I'm lacking in vitamin C", you are saying that you don't have enough.

When you say, "vitamin C is lacking", you are again saying that there isn't enough vitamin C.

In order to mean "absent", one would have to say "I lack vitamin C". There is a pretty good explanation of this in the Oxford English Dictionary page that you provided the link to a while back.

 

[JoStories]

I don't think so. When I'm lacking in vitamin C, I'm deficient. When vitamin C is lacking, it's absent.

Actually, not quite. Deficient means lower than normal blood levels. Vitamin c is required in the body for several functions and we would be pretty sick with none.

 

[Mohammad Nur Syamsu]

So raping little girls to death is right if the rapist feels that he's doing something right?

Your nonsense pseudscience of rapology, it just leads to increase rape, because you cut the emotional disgusting and unjust part from the crime. You achieve exactly 0 emotional depth with your ideas to make every issue an issue of fact. That does not make for moral people. Tell a serial rapist, rape is in fact wrong, this does nothing but increase it. Bring a rapist to acknowledge rape is disgusting, and unjust, in expressing the emotions from his own heart, then that has spiritual significance.

 

[Willamena]

We can't, or shouldn't, claim anything about the planet. Why/how would we?

Just so.

We can't claim its truth or existence until and unless we know its truth or existence.

 

[Willamena]

Both of these examples would use the meaning of "deficient". The word "lacking" cannot be used in this way. Only the word "lack" can be used to describe "absence".

I disagree. When vitamin C is lacking, it's not deficient.

When you say "I'm lacking in vitamin C", you are saying that you don't have enough.

Indeed, yes. I'm deficient in vitamin C when I'm lacking it.

When you say, "vitamin C is lacking", you are again saying that there isn't enough vitamin C.

Then I'm saying it's missing. I'm saying nothing about myself.

In order to mean "absent", one would have to say "I lack vitamin C". There is a pretty good explanation of this in the Oxford English Dictionary page that you provided the link to a while back.

No, if I say that I lack vitamin C I'm saying something about myself. I'm not absent, it is.

 

[leibowde84]

Just so.

We can't claim its truth or existence until and unless we know its truth or existence.

That is not true. There are many ways that we can make inferences about something or someone being "real" without "knowing" it to be, in fact, real. Certainty doesn't exist in this world. It is merely an illusion.

 

[JoStories]

You have those reversed.

"Lacking a belief" is being without that belief.

"Belief is lacking" means that the belief is insufficient.

I agree leibowde. The way you phrase it makes sense to me. I do believe we finally concur in this matter. Who knew?

 

[JoStories]

Your nonsense pseudscience of rapology, it just leads to increase rape, because you cut the emotional disgusting and unjust part from the crime. You achieve exactly 0 emotional depth with your ideas to make every issue an issue of fact. That does not make for moral people. Tell a serial rapist, rape is in fact wrong, this does nothing but increase it. Bring a rapist to acknowledge rape is disgusting, and unjust, in expressing the emotions from his own heart, then that has spiritual significance.

Rape is not about sexual anything. It's about power and in that context, you would be hard pressed to convince a rapist that rape is disgusting or wrong. In their minds, it is about a lack (sorry to use that term in light of the ongoing debate) of control or power, and in particular with females/males, depending on what sex the person is attracted to control.

 

[JoStories]

I disagree. When vitamin C is lacking, it's not deficient.


Indeed, yes. I'm deficient in vitamin C when I'm lacking it.


Then I'm saying it's missing. I'm saying nothing about myself.


No, if I say that I lack vitamin C I'm saying something about myself. I'm not absent, it is.

I disagree here. When you say that vitamin C is deficient, as I pointed out, it means that you have a lower amount. Not that it is absent.