I see no value in atheism

[Willamena]

That is not true. There are many ways that we can make inferences about something or someone being "real" without "knowing" it to be, in fact, real. Certainty doesn't exist in this world. It is merely an illusion.

Like inferences about no black swans?
Inferences have nothing to do with certainty.

 

[Willamena]

I disagree here. When you say that vitamin C is deficient, as I pointed out, it means that you have a lower amount. Not that it is absent.

The vitamin isn't deficient, it's just what it is.

 

[ImmortalFlame]

Mea culpa for misundstanding, and to answer you correctly, no, I could not choose atheism at this point.

And why is that? If you can choose your beliefs, why are you unable to change your beliefs? It is because you don't "choose" your beliefs, in the strict sense of the term. Your beliefs are a reaction or conclusion to the information you are given being run through your particular mental processes. You cannot simply "choose" to believe the sun will not rise in the morning when you have seen it rise every morning of your life for decades - once you possess knowledge or an understanding of something sufficient to convince you of the truth of that particular thing, you cannot merely "turn off" the fact that you have processed that information in that way. Your own language in talking about your beliefs clearly illustrates this: you didn't "choose" to experience what you experienced, and you didn't "choose" for them to convince you of your current position. And now that you are there, you cannot merely "choose" to change your mind unless circumstances (i.e: evidence) force you to - which means it isn't even really a choice at all.

 

[Bunyip]

Mea culpa for misundstanding, and to answer you correctly, no, I could not choose atheism at this point.

Then it is not the choice you said it was.

 

[ArtieE]

Your nonsense pseudscience of rapology, it just leads to increase rape, because you cut the emotional disgusting and unjust part from the crime. You achieve exactly 0 emotional depth with your ideas to make every issue an issue of fact. That does not make for moral people. Tell a serial rapist, rape is in fact wrong, this does nothing but increase it. Bring a rapist to acknowledge rape is disgusting, and unjust,

But according to you rape isn't disgusting or unjust because there is no good or evil only subjective emotions and opinions...

 

[psychoslice]

There is only value in what you see value in, be that whatever, it means something to you, and that is all that matters.

 

[Mohammad Nur Syamsu]

But according to you rape isn't disgusting or unjust because there is no good or evil only subjective emotions and opinions...

disgust and unjust are emotion / opinion. You are just trying to pile on the pressure on morality so that the temptation becomes to just state as fact what is good and evil. Regardless if you include torture and whatnot. It's never going to make good and evil a fact. Very easy to shut down opinion, shut down emotion, take away freedom. You are just advocating ridiculous evil. To make a category error does nothing to help morality. Providing emotional depth, and being smart about different ways of choosing helps morality.

 

[ArtieE]

disgust and unjust are emotion / opinion. You are just trying to pile on the pressure on morality so that the temptation becomes to just state as fact what is good and evil. Regardless if you include torture and whatnot. It's never going to make good and evil a fact. Very easy to shut down opinion, shut down emotion, take away freedom. You are just advocating ridiculous evil.

I can't advocate "ridiculous evil" because according to yourself what is good and evil isn't a fact. That I advocate evil is according to yourself just your opinion and based on your emotions.

 

[Mohammad Nur Syamsu]

I can't advocate "ridiculous evil" because according to yourself what is good and evil isn't a fact. That I advocate evil is according to yourself just your opinion and based on your emotions.

Yes, it's my opinion. Opinions are great.

Social darwinian ideology which puts the fact of planets circling around the sun together with a fact that rape is wrong should be dealt with same as nazism and communism. It is rejection of all subjectivity, which is also well substantiated by that they regard love and hate as electrochemistry in the brain, and that they fail to acknowledge the existence of both the human spirit and God the holy spirit, and that they oppose any theory in which freedom is regarded as real and relevant in the universe. It's just ridiculously absurd evil.

 

[Bunyip]

Yes, it's my opinion. Opinions are great.

Social darwinian ideology which puts the fact of planets circling around the sun together with a fact that rape is wrong should be dealt with same as nazism and communism. It is rejection of all subjectivity, which is also well substantiated by that they regard love and hate as electrochemistry in the brain, and that they fail to acknowledge the existence of both the human spirit and God the holy spirit, and that they oppose any theory in which freedom is regarded as real and relevant in the universe. It's just ridiculously absurd evil.

Seriously buddy - that reads like a string of randomly generated words.

 

[Mohammad Nur Syamsu]

Seriously buddy - that reads like a string of randomly generated words.

Just more ridiculous evil.

 

[ArtieE]

It's just ridiculously absurd evil.

ROTFL. How can you claim something is "ridiculously absurd evil" if you haven't defined what is evil and what is good?

 

[Mohammad Nur Syamsu]

ROTFL. How can you claim something is "ridiculously absurd evil" if you haven't defined what is evil and what is good?

Yes now you are beginning to understand the radical difference between facts and opinions.

Indeed I cannot calculate whatever with predefined criteria, I am just expressing my emotions, choosing the answer. That is how opinion works, you choose ugly or beautiful, and either answer is logically valid.

 

[ArtieE]

Yes now you are beginning to understand the radical difference between facts and opinions.

Indeed I cannot calculate whatever with predefined criteria, I am just expressing my emotions, choosing the answer. That is how opinion works, you choose ugly or beautiful, and either answer is logically valid.

So raping little girls to death is neither good nor evil it just depends on your opinion? Suppose we catch somebody in the act we can't stop them because raping little girls isn't actually evil and in their opinion they aren't doing anything evil?

 

[Mohammad Nur Syamsu]

So raping little girls to death is neither good nor evil it just depends on your opinion?

You are just screeching out of your factual certainty, but you have no moral authority at all, no emotional depth.

No it is not a fact that van Gogh's painting is beautiful, nor is it a fact that raping little girls to death is evil. It is a matter of opinion, and opinion work perfectly fine to deal with it. To say it is disgusting, and so forth. What does your emotions tell you about raping little girls to death, express your emotions with free will, thus choosing the anwer.

 

[leibowde84]

Like inferences about no black swans?
Inferences have nothing to do with certainty.

Again, certainty doesn't exist. It cannot exist because of the limits of our own senses/experience. We make inferences from the evidence we have. I don't know whether black swans are real or not, so that is not a good example for me, but let's say "purple squirrel". I make the inference that purple squirrels are not real because I have never heard of one or seen one myself existing anywhere. But, since my knowledge, like everyone else's in the world, is severely limited, there is no certainty in this inference, no matter how confident I feel.

Does that explanation help?

 

[leibowde84]

I agree leibowde. The way you phrase it makes sense to me. I do believe we finally concur in this matter. Who knew?

I knew it had to happen eventually.

 

[ArtieE]

No it is not a fact that van Gogh's painting is beautiful, nor is it a fact that raping little girls to death is evil. It is a matter of opinion, and opinion work perfectly fine to deal with it. To say it is disgusting, and so forth. What does your emotions tell you about raping little girls to death, express your emotions with free will, thus choosing the anwer.

The rapist is of the opinion that raping little girls to death is good. His emotions tell him that raping little girls to death is good. He expresses his emotions with free will, thus choosing the answer. And according to you he's not doing anything actually wrong.

 

[Mohammad Nur Syamsu]

The rapist is of the opinion that raping little girls to death is good. His emotions tell him that raping little girls to death is good. He expresses his emotions with free will, thus choosing the answer. And according to you he's not doing anything actually wrong.

Does not follow. I can still express my own opinion on it. You understand absolutely nothing about opinions.

 

[ArtieE]

Does not follow. I can still express my own opinion on it. You understand absolutely nothing about opinions.

I wrote: "The rapist is of the opinion that raping little girls to death is good. His emotions tell him that raping little girls to death is good. He expresses his emotions with free will, thus choosing the answer. And according to you he's not doing anything actually wrong."

What does it matter if you can express your own opinion on it? According to you his opinion is as valid as yours so you have no right telling him he's doing anything wrong.