I see no value in atheism

[Willamena]

Imho, "what I think" is far too vague. Can we move forward using the term "opinion" instead?

Fine. But it remains that my opinion is what I think.

 

[leibowde84]

Fine. But it remains that my opinion is what I think.

It's part of what you think, sure. But, consciousness in itself is thought.

 

[Nakosis]

I have been thinking about your post all day. I see your point and can also see this from your POV. Let me see if I can explain how I view this. You have seen from my posts that my idea of God is not that of others here. I view God as neither male or female nor having any gender at all. It's more of an energy source. When I had my first experience, I concluded that there was something but I was still open to logical explanations and in fact, still am. I decided that there was enough evidence, after further experiences, to conclude it might be what I see God as, so for me, this was a choice. It continues to be. If I find rational explanations, I will decide there might not be that energy source. Do you see?

Belief for me, there is a lot of gray areas where I might need to male a choice to believe in one thing or another. I don't have all the knowledge needed otherwise my choices would be pretty predictable, always making the correct choice.

I'm just agreeing.

I see a large gray area of possible beliefs. I choose to be an Atheist so I can keep on my toes, continue to question even my own ideas of what is true. To believe in a God is just a decision, because there is a lot I don't know. So I guess that is why I can make a choice among all of the possible answers. Not because of the information I know but because of the information I don't know.

Having valid, testable information may force me to accept something. Lacking information allows me to choose among the possibilities for whatever reason I think is appropriate.

 

[Willamena]

It's part of what you think, sure. But, consciousness in itself is thought.

The whole world is thought, yes.

 

[JoStories]

Okee doke. It's a pretty difficult concept to explain, really, and I'm hoping it doesn't come across as mere semantics (as so many of these types of debates tend to come down to). I feel it's quite important to understand as a concept that beliefs aren't necessarily informed by choices, in the strict sense, but are formed as responses to external stimuli being subjected to our personal mental processes, but if you continue to prefer calling it choice I can't really argue. At the very least, you appear to have given the concept a great deal of thought (and I'm sure you will continue to do so), and not dismissed it off-handedly as many people can do and have done in the past, so you certainly deserve respect for that.

Of course I did flame. I respect you and most of the time, like your posts. And I honestly get what you are trying to say. I just think there is more to it and that there are...shades of gray?....to the concept that makes it slightly different in how I view it. But honestly, I do get what you are trying to explain. I hope,you are not offended. Namaste dear.

 

[JoStories]

I agree. He is extremely and erroneously fond of stereotyping.

I couldn't agree more, which is why I have read what he writes but tend to ignore it as not being worth the time to response. I much prefer to speak with people who can have honest conversations without silly statements, even if we disagree. In fact, I like it when we disagree. It's thought provoking!

 

[leibowde84]

I couldn't agree more, which is why I have read what he writes but tend to ignore it as not being worth the time to response. I much prefer to speak with people who can have honest conversations without silly statements, even if we disagree. In fact, I like it when we disagree. It's thought provoking!

I always thought that the whole purpose of this forum was to provide disagreement with one's own views. Every time I am forced to defend a belief I have, I learn that much more about why I hold it ... and, then again, sometimes I just find out I was wrong.

 

[JoStories]

Belief for me, there is a lot of gray areas where I might need to male a choice to believe in one thing or another. I don't have all the knowledge needed otherwise my choices would be pretty predictable, always making the correct choice.

I'm just agreeing.

I see a large gray area of possible beliefs. I choose to be an Atheist so I can keep on my toes, continue to question even my own ideas of what is true. To believe in a God is just a decision, because there is a lot I don't know. So I guess that is why I can make a choice among all of the possible answers. Not because of the information I know but because of the information I don't know.

Having valid, testable information may force me to accept something. Lacking information allows me to choose among the possibilities for whatever reason I think is appropriate.

Thank you Nakosis! That's it exactly. This is what I have been trying to impart and obviously making a mess of it. It's these gray areas that have led me to have faith because of what I have learned and experienced. However, should explanations be found, I would change that choice and choose atheism.

 

[JoStories]

I always thought that the whole purpose of this forum was to provide disagreement with one's own views. Every time I am forced to defend a belief I have, I learn that much more about why I hold it ... and, then again, sometimes I just find out I was wrong.

Exactly leibowde. I have gotten a great deal from this thread alone. It's been fascinating and made me give a great deal of thought to this topic. And I really love that!

 

[JoStories]

I always thought that the whole purpose of this forum was to provide disagreement with one's own views. Every time I am forced to defend a belief I have, I learn that much more about why I hold it ... and, then again, sometimes I just find out I was wrong.

Me too. This thread alone has forced me to reconsider my views on whether or not I chose my beliefs or not. It's interesting to learn a new way to view things that I had not thought of before. I still disagree to a point but I also see how other's views, such as flame's, can make how we see things more unique. I can't say how refreshing this has been.

 

[ImmortalFlame]

Me too. This thread alone has forced me to reconsider my views on whether or not I chose my beliefs or not. It's interesting to learn a new way to view things that I had not thought of before. I still disagree to a point but I also see how other's views, such as flame's, can make how we see things more unique. I can't say how refreshing this has been.

Well, it's pleasing to know that something positive came of this thread. For a good, long while there it looked like it was a depressingly endless repeating cycle of people saying "atheism is ___" "no, it's ___" "no, it's ___" etc.

 

[paula109]

if true to his heart, then there will be no atheism

 

[leibowde84]

if true to his heart, then there will be no atheism

So everyone who lacks a belief in God is not true to their heart? What does that mean specifically? Just going on intuition?

 

[McBell]

if true to his heart, then there will be no atheism

This is nothing mor than a rephrasing of the "no atheists in foxholes" fallacy.

 

[JoStories]

Well, it's pleasing to know that something positive came of this thread. For a good, long while there it looked like it was a depressingly endless repeating cycle of people saying "atheism is ___" "no, it's ___" "no, it's ___" etc.

Not at all flame. I did read your comments and truly gave them serious thought. That is, after all, what this is all about, at least for reasoning adult posters who truly wish to have good and honest discourse. I, for one, am grateful for people like you and many others here.

 

[JoStories]

if true to his heart, then there will be no atheism

That, for me at least, makes no sense. I know plenty of wonderful people who are atheist, some right here on this forum and they are completely true to their hearts. Can you explain what you mean by that please?

 

[JoStories]

So everyone who lacks a belief in God is not true to their heart? What does that mean specifically? Just going on intuition?

Lol....I should have read ahead dear friend. I should know by now that you more often than not say what I would, more or less.

 

[leibowde84]

Lol....I should have read ahead dear friend. I should know by now that you more often than not say what I would, more or less.

Haha ... I feel the same way about your comments. I feel like the comment we are responding to is pretty insulting, though. It is basically saying if you don't have a relationship with God, it's because your aren't "true to your heart" enough.

 

[Mohammad Nur Syamsu]

That, for me at least, makes no sense. I know plenty of wonderful people who are atheist, some right here on this forum and they are completely true to their hearts. Can you explain what you mean by that please?

Except of course that atheists would say that the heart is just a pump. The atheists are calculating good behaviour, they are not expressing their emotions, all you see from them is political correctness.

 

[leibowde84]

Except of course that atheists would say that the heart is just a pump. The atheists are calculating good behaviour, they are not expressing their emotions, all you see from them is political correctness.

Yet another blatantly false statement without a shred of supporting evidence, meant, most likely, to insult atheists. What a class act ... predictable too.