I Support The Truckers

[Rival]

I support the trucker protesters. They're protesting against a despotic government that wants to impose vaccine mandates and take away their freedoms for not complying with a forced medical procedure. Most of what has been reported about them is false and they have been demonised by the media. I see RF doesn't broadly support them either. Maybe folks are afraid to say.

But I support them. It seems, according to the media I follow, many others support them too. Many of them are vaccinated, but for me this isn't about vaccination; this is about standing up to forced medical tyranny. They are the good guys imo and are doing Canada a favour. Some in the US have joined them.

I believe the way the Canadian government is treating them is horrible, and now threatening to take away their pets. Seriously? Freezing bank accounts and taking away people's animals is something the CCP would do, not liberal Western democracies.

These folks aren't Nazis, they're not Confederates; they're protesting for their freedoms back. Freedoms we had until 2020 that were completely normal to everyone.

 

[Revoltingest]

I support the truckers who aren't impeding free
travel of other people. I'm the type who gives right
of way to people entering a highway, even though
legally they don't have it. I adjust my speed to give
them a gap to enter. Roads are where we should
be extra considerate. Lives are at stake.
Let all travel freely & safely.

As for medical tyranny, we have interests to balance,
ie, government imposed restrictions vs public health.
I don't grant Typhoid Marys the right to freely infect
others. But I want government coercion to be as
little as possible to still reasonably guard public health.
It's not practical to prevent all Covid 19 deaths, so I'm
willing to tolerate some carnage in order to keep the
economy & social functions operating.

 

[The Hammer]

I don't see tyranny here or there. But I respect your ability to do so.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

These folks aren't Nazis, they're not Confederates; they're protesting for their freedoms back. Freedoms we had until 2020 that were completely normal to everyone.

What freedoms were those, specifically?

... because I remember back in 2012, I had to get a jab to get a job: my new job - an engineering desk job - required a medical, including a TB test.

I also remember when my ex-wife was in HR at a hospital and hearing stories of her having to chase after nurses who weren't up-to-date on their vaccinations and threaten them with termination if they didn't get them.

And I remember when they brought in NEXUS cards after 9/11... and every trucking company required their cross-border drivers to have a NEXUS card. This meant - among other things - getting their fingerprints and iris scans into a database that was shared with the US and Canadian governments.

Even before that - going all the way back to the early 80s - I remember vaccine passports for schools. My parents had the little yellow fold-out cards for my sister and me that had the records of our vaccinations, and they'd have to hand in a photocopy every year at the start of school. I also remember the press releases from the health unit every September reminding parents that their kids would have to be suspended if they didn't have all their mandatory shots.

And I remember hearing stories going back even before that of my grandfather - who was a public health inspector from the 50s until he retired - having to quarantine families when they came down with communicable diseases.

... so I'm not sure whether the past that you and the Omicronvoy members are demanding ever actually existed.

 

[Left Coast]

I support the trucker protesters. They're protesting against a despotic government that wants to impose vaccine mandates and take away their freedoms for not complying with a forced medical procedure. Most of what has been reported about them is false, and they have been demonised by the media. I see RF doesn't broadly support them either. Maybe folks are afraid to say.

But I support them. It seems, according to the media I follow, many others support them too. Many of them are vaccinated, but for me this isn't about vaccination; this is about standing up to forced medical tyranny. They are the good guys imo and are doing Canada a favour. Some in the US have joined them.

I believe the way the Canadian government is treating them is horrible, and now threatening to take away their pets. Seriously? Freezing bank accounts and taking away people's animals is something the CCP would do, not liberal Western democracies.

These folks aren't Nazis, they're not Confederates; they're protesting for their freedoms back. Freedoms we had until 2020 that were completely normal to everyone.

To be clear, the requirement is that truckers who cross the border into Canada who are unvaccinated are required to quarantine. So no one is having a "forced medical procedure" done to them.

 

[stvdv]

I support the trucker protesters

#MeToo

Most of what has been reported about them is false, and they have been demonised by the media. I see RF doesn't broadly support them either.

Anyone going against mainstream media gets "demonized" or gets the "guilt card" or...

for me this isn't about vaccination; this is about standing up to forced medical tyranny.

Big Pharma plays a Big Role in this, and in Germany they didn't allow some unvaccinated people in a hospital. First they promised "no discrimination" but they gradually implement their game. Democracy will be gone if we don't stand up against these tyrants

Freezing bank accounts and taking away people's animals is something the CCP would do, not liberal Western democracies

CCP or closer to home, what Hitler would have done

These folks aren't Nazis, they're not Confederates; they're protesting for their freedoms back. Freedoms we had until 2020 that were completely normal to

Truckers are definitely not the Nazis. Those narcissists claiming such seem more like it. That's a narcissistic trick to turn things around. So, if they accuse you, using your right to demonstrate, to be a Nazi, that tells a lot about those people themselves

 

[Valjean]

Imposing health and safety measures = despotism?
Do you deny the utility of these mandates? Are you anarchist, who regards all rules as illegitimate?

Doesn't living in a coöperative society necessitate some deference to the interests and welfare of your neighbors?

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

To be clear, the requirement is that truckers who cross the border into Canada who are unvaccinated are required to quarantine. So no one is having a "forced medical procedure" done to them.

That was the original rallying cry of the convoy, but it very quickly became "drop all anti-COVID public health measures." It was a quick enough change that I have to assume that was their real goal from the beginning.

 

[Left Coast]

What freedoms were those, specifically?

... because I remember back in 2012, I had to get a jab to get a job: my new job - an engineering desk job - required a medical, including a TB test.

I also remember when my ex-wife was in HR at a hospital and hearing stories of her having to chase after nurses who weren't up-to-date on their vaccinations and threaten them with termination if they didn't get them.

And I remember when they brought in NEXUS cards after 9/11... and every trucking company required their cross-border drivers to have a NEXUS card. This meant - among other things - getting their fingerprints and iris scans into a database that was shared with the US and Canadian governments.

Even before that - going all the way back to the early 80s - I remember vaccine passports for schools. My parents had the little yellow fold-out cards for my sister and me that had the records of our vaccinations, and they'd have to hand in a photocopy every year at the start of school. I also remember the press releases from the health unit every September reminding parents that their kids would have to be suspended if they didn't have all their mandatory shots.

And I remember hearing stories going back even before that of my grandfather - who was a public health inspector from the 50s until he retired - having to quarantine families when they came down with communicable diseases.

... so I'm not sure whether the past that you and the Omicronvoy members are demanding ever actually existed.

I similarly have had to have a TB test for multiple jobs (in healthcare). Which for people who don't know, involves getting an injection under your skin to see if it reacts (indicating a TB infection). I've also been required to get the flu shot every year for several years. The rule before COVID was that you either had to get the flu shot or wear a mask in all patient care areas.

 

[Valjean]

Do the truckers also object to mechanical and emissions inspections? Are brake or tire wear regulations also despotic?

Though some may be ridiculous or useless, there are usually utilitarian functions behind regulations and oversight. They're there to protect people.

 

[F1fan]

I support the trucker protesters. They're protesting against a despotic government that wants to impose vaccine mandates and take away their freedoms for not complying with a forced medical procedure. Most of what has been reported about them is false, and they have been demonised by the media. I see RF doesn't broadly support them either. Maybe folks are afraid to say.

But I support them. It seems, according to the media I follow, many others support them too.

OK, before I accept your statements as true what media sources are you using?

I believe the way the Canadian government is treating them is horrible, and now threatening to take away their pets. Seriously? Freezing bank accounts and taking away people's animals is something the CCP would do, not liberal Western democracies.

This all sounds implausible. Where did you hear about this?

These folks aren't Nazis, they're not Confederates; they're protesting for their freedoms back. Freedoms we had until 2020 that were completely normal to everyone.

Do you oppose the freedom of travel for those being blocked by truckers? How do you reconcile the conflict of freedom to protest and freedom to travel?

 

[Altfish]

I support the trucker protesters. They're protesting against a despotic government that wants to impose vaccine mandates and take away their freedoms for not complying with a forced medical procedure. Most of what has been reported about them is false, and they have been demonised by the media. I see RF doesn't broadly support them either. Maybe folks are afraid to say.

But I support them. It seems, according to the media I follow, many others support them too. Many of them are vaccinated, but for me this isn't about vaccination; this is about standing up to forced medical tyranny. They are the good guys imo and are doing Canada a favour. Some in the US have joined them.

I believe the way the Canadian government is treating them is horrible, and now threatening to take away their pets. Seriously? Freezing bank accounts and taking away people's animals is something the CCP would do, not liberal Western democracies.

These folks aren't Nazis, they're not Confederates; they're protesting for their freedoms back. Freedoms we had until 2020 that were completely normal to everyone.

The problem arguing about 'Freedoms being taken away" is it is such a selfish argument. What about the freedom of a vulnerable citizen to get their life back to normal? Does that not count?
If you don't want the jab(s) fair enough, but you must accept the consequences of that decision.
If I don't want to have a yellow fever jab I will not be able to visit Antigua and Barmuda (amongst many)
If I don't want to have a malaria jab I will not be able to visit Cambodia

 

[Revoltingest]

Do the truckers also object to mechanical and emissions inspections? Are brake or tire wear regulations also despotic?

Though some may be ridiculous or useless, here are usually utilitarian functions behind regulations and oversight. They're there to protect people.

And physicals are required for a CDL.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I support the trucker protesters. They're protesting against a despotic government that wants to impose vaccine mandates and take away their freedoms for not complying with a forced medical procedure.

If we're indulging the fiction that this was ever actually about truckers, then let's look at what the situation was for truckers:

- at first, the border was closed to non-essential travel. Vaccines were not yet available.

- once vaccines were available, they became very popular with cross-border truckers - 90% got vaccinated.

- with vaccination rates that high, it was no longer necessary to give a special exemption to unvaccinated truckers.

- both federal governments announced that vaccinated truckers would still be exempt from quarantine, but unvaccinated foreign truckers would be inadmissible. Canadian truckers would be admissible to Canada, but would have to do a 14-day quarantine.

- both countries announced the change 3 months before it would take effect to give truckers and the industry lots of time to respond.

- even after the change at the border, unvaccinated truckers are still free to do domestic routes.

So:

- what "freedom" do you think has been taken away? We don't generally have the freedom to enter a foreign country, and Canada is still allowing vaccinated Canadian truckers in and out.

- what harm do you think has come out of this? There's a trucker shortage generally; any experienced trucker should have no problem getting a job that doesn't involve crossing the border, so it's not even as if any families won't be able to pay their mortgages.

- why protest the Canadian government? It doesn't matter whether unvaccinated Canadian truckers have to quarantine on their return from the US; the US isn't letting unvaccinated Canadian truckers in in the first place.

 

[F1fan]

I support the truckers who aren't impeding free
travel of other people. I'm the type who gives right
of way to people entering a highway, even though
legally they don't have it. I adjust my speed to give
them a gap to enter. Roads are where we should
be extra considerate. Lives are at stake.
Let all travel freely & safely.

As for medical tyranny, we have interests to balance,
ie, government imposed restrictions vs public health.
I don't grant Typhoid Marys the right to freely infect
others. But I want government coercion to be as
little as possible to still reasonably guard public health.
It's not practical to prevent all Covid 19 deaths, so I'm
willing to tolerate some carnage in order to keep the
economy & social functions operating.

The government has a massive role in managing public health, and I think the freedom of press needs to have limits WHEN certain media makes untrue, false, and dangerous statements about vaccinations and disease. I understand it is a slippery slope, but as we know there are limits to any rights in a diverse and complicated society.

If the government won't impose limits on these freedoms then the courts should allow the public to easily sue media that spreads disinformation that has a causal effect on illness and death rates.

To my mind if "freedom fighters" don't want to vaccinate due to "personal responsibility" then they had better take that seriously. As it is we see many of these folks being rebels without any sort of personal responsibility. Carelessness has consequences in a society that values personal responsibility.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I similarly have had to have a TB test for multiple jobs (in healthcare). Which for people who don't know, involves getting an injection under your skin to see if it reacts (indicating a TB infection). I've also been required to get the flu shot every year for several years. The rule before COVID was that you either had to get the flu shot or wear a mask in all patient care areas.

My job was just in an office, not a health care setting, but it was their standard practice.

It was an expensive burden, too: they insisted that the test had to be done at their one approved clinic, but I lived 4 hours away. I had to do a road trip out there to get the prick, then drive back again 48 hours later for them to look at it.

I don't recall any protests for people in my situation (not that I would have wanted them).

 

[F1fan]

The problem arguing about 'Freedoms being taken away" is it is such a selfish argument. What about the freedom of a vulnerable citizen to get their life back to normal? Does that not count?
If you don't want the jab(s) fair enough, but you must accept the consequences of that decision.
If I don't want to have a yellow fever jab I will not be able to visit Antigua and Barmuda (amongst many)
If I don't want to have a malaria jab I will not be able to visit Cambodia

This illustrates how civilized people used to (and largely still do) value social contract, where we have to compromise absolute liberties for the massive benefits of being part of a large community, but this contract is being rejected over symbolic excuses. I can accept the vaccine exception from people who have health conditions, and they will have to manage their own exposure to disease in public. But All healthy people should acknowledge there are truly health compromised people and do their part to get vaccinated as a duty to their fellow citizens. I find the protest to vaccinate for the sake of anti-government protest to be ironic and destructive to the very society they gain benefits from.

There is no principle to protesting effective measures to help society as a whole, especially in regards to public health, overall security, and the economy. These truck protests are trying to minimize the consequences they inevitably pose to others and society while enjoying the freedom to protest as guaranteed by society. There is a real disconnect.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

This illustrates how civilized people used to (and largely still do) value social contract, where we have to compromise absolute liberties for the massive benefits of being part of a large community, but this contract is being rejected over symbolic excuses. I can accept the vaccine exception from people who have health conditions, and they will have to manage their own exposure to disease in public. But All healthy people should acknowledge there are truly health compromised people and do their part to get vaccinated as a duty to their fellow citizens. I find the protest to vaccinate for the sake of anti-government protest to be ironic and destructive to the very society they gain benefits from.

There is no principle to protesting effective measures to help society as a whole, especially in regards to public health, overall security, and the economy. These truck protests are trying to minimize the consequences they inevitably pose to others and society while enjoying the freedom to protest as guaranteed by society. There is a real disconnect.

I think it's important not to lose sight of the larger context of this protest in the Canadian context: money, specifically government revenue from oil taxation, and the cost of addressing climate change.

It isn't a coincidence that this protest has close ties to the "Wexit" movement.

Thanks to high oil prices, Alberta pays quite a bit in transfer payments that get distributed to other provinces. Because extracting that oil - especially dirty tar sands oil - is a big chunk of Canada's carbon footprint, Alberta also shoulders quite a bit of the cost of the federal government's carbon tax program. At the same time, these boom times in Alberta are producing a lot of local inflation and cost increases, so many individual Albertans are already feeling squeezed.

Those factors were already fueling a big push in the west for less federal "interference" in their affairs, including a non-negligible number of people - including Tamara Lich - calling for Alberta to leave Canada altogether.

I think this is part of why we saw a fair number of people convoy from Alberta to Ottawa of all places, even though most of the COVID restrictions they were complaining about are provincial matters and it would have made more sense for them to take the convoy to Edmonton: the protest certainly isn't about truckers; I'd argue that it isn't even mostly about COVID. It's about westerners holding what they see as a list of grievances about the federal government specifically.

I think this is why the most popular message on the convoy trucks was just "**** Trudeau" and not even anything about vaccines, masks or lockdowns.

I'm not even sure that the "Trudeau" on those banners was supposed to be Justin Trudeau. There's still a lot of resentment towards Pierre Trudeau in Alberta over the National Energy Program.

 

[Estro Felino]

Vox Populi, Vox Dei.
I always side with the real people.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Vox Populi, Vox Dei.
I always side with the real people.

Then you're against the protesters? The Canadian people are overwhelmingly against the occupation and border blockades:



Blockade Backlash: Three-in-four Canadians tell convoy protesters, ‘Go Home Now’ - Angus Reid Institute