i think jesus was confused...or maybe luke and john were

[sincerly]

ok i'll pick one...
you claim jesus wasn't hiding out or resisting arrest, why then did a fight ensue when he was being arrested?

Not because of Jesus nor His meeting HIS prophesied appointment with the Cross. It was "fulfilled as scheduled" just as HE said it would be.

 

[waitasec]

Not because of Jesus nor His meeting HIS prophesied appointment with the Cross. It was "fulfilled as scheduled" just as HE said it would be.

why did the disciples put up a fight if jesus was waiting to be arrested?

 

[sincerly]

why did the disciples put up a fight if jesus was waiting to be arrested?

Why do you say disciples when only one used a sword and that without orders to do so? He was told quickly to put it away and the damage inflicted was restored to normal. Why Do you assume by that "if" that Jesus wasn't expected to be arrested and condemned to die on the cross? IT was HIS Purpose for being on earth in the first place. And as HE told that mob, Luke 22:53, "When I was daily with you in the temple, ye stretched forth no hands against me: but this is your hour, and the power of darkness." The context of the scriptures---the "Everlasting Gospel" says your insinuations are erroneous. Hey, continue to hold to falsely contrived opinions---that's your perogative. Enjoy---for now. Like Peter people do see the errors of their ways.

 

[waitasec]

Why do you say disciples when only one used a sword and that without orders to do so? He was told quickly to put it away and the damage inflicted was restored to normal. Why Do you assume by that "if" that Jesus wasn't expected to be arrested and condemned to die on the cross? IT was HIS Purpose for being on earth in the first place. And as HE told that mob, Luke 22:53, "When I was daily with you in the temple, ye stretched forth no hands against me: but this is your hour, and the power of darkness." The context of the scriptures---the "Everlasting Gospel" says your insinuations are erroneous. Hey, continue to hold to falsely contrived opinions---that's your perogative. Enjoy---for now. Like Peter people do see the errors of their ways.

luke 22:49 When Jesus’ followers saw what was going to happen, they said, “Lord, should we strike with our swords?”
why did the disciples put up a fight if jesus was waiting to be arrested?

 

[waitasec]

you claim jesus wasn't hiding out or resisting arrest, why then did a fight ensue when he was being arrested?

why then did his disciples put up a fight knowing why they were waiting for jesus' betrayer?

yes you do manipulate scripture, and may i say, really badly.
but i must give you points for the level of the audacity you display...
that is impressive.

 

[sincerly]

luke 22:49 When Jesus’ followers saw what was going to happen, they said, “Lord, should we strike with our swords?”
why did the disciples put up a fight if jesus was waiting to be arrested?

Did Peter wait for an command?:no: he acted on his own opinion/initative. Was he reprimanded?:yes: Why do people do the same today/act hastily? Peter's actions do not give any room for assuming that Jesus was resistant to being arrested. The whole senario in context doesn't support your wishful thinking/assuming. Your "strawman" just will not stand-up to the context---no matter how much/long you try to prop it up.

Thank you Jesus for NOT resisting arrest and the Cross.

 

[waitasec]

Did Peter wait for an command?:no: he acted on his own opinion/initative. Was he reprimanded?:yes: Why do people do the same today/act hastily? Peter's actions do not give any room for assuming that Jesus was resistant to being arrested. The whole senario in context doesn't support your wishful thinking/assuming. Your "strawman" just will not stand-up to the context---no matter how much/long you try to prop it up.

Thank you Jesus for NOT resisting arrest and the Cross.

if peter knew jesus was waiting to be betrayed why did he put up a fight and why did the disciples ask if they should strike...?

your manipulation that jesus gave up willingly is noted.

the definition of go is

go 1 (g)
v. went (wnt), gone (gôn, gn), go·ing, goes (gz)
v.intr.
1. To move or travel; proceed: We will go by bus. Solicitors went from door to door seeking donations. How fast can the boat go?
2. To move away from a place; depart: Go before I cry.

this is obviously the context....since they asked to use the swords...

 

[waitasec]

mark 14: 41 Returning the third time, he said to them, “Are you still sleeping and resting? Enough! The hour has come. Look, the Son of Man is delivered into the hands of sinners. 42 Rise! Let us go! Here comes my betrayer!”

doesn't seem as though the disciples knew what was going on as jesus considered them to be his friends when they asked to use their swords

 

[sincerly]

if peter knew jesus was waiting to be betrayed why did he put up a fight and why did the disciples ask if they should strike...?

your manipulation that jesus gave up willingly is noted.

Waitasec, the record shows there was no "if". Jesus had plainly told the Disciples, Matt.26:2, "Ye know that after two days is [the feast of] the passover, and the Son of man is betrayed to be crucified." and in vs3-5 and Mark14:1-2,10-11 the same attested to along with Judas being the betrayer to the priest and Scribes.

What does Acts1:6 say to you? "When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel? "
The Jewish leaders had long linked the coming messiah to the restoration of the kingdom of Israel(from the Roman Empire). That wasn't the mission of Jesus, HIS Mission was in the atoning/Redeeming of the people to the Creator GOD. And "HE came unto HIS Own and they rejected HIM."
Notice how strong that belief was even in HIS reciting to them AFTER the Resurrection all the Scriptures Concerning THIS MISSION HE HAD JUST COMPLETED. (Luke 24:27, 44-48)

BTW, your assumption that I "manipulated" Jesus submission to the Cross is more of your misunderstanding of GOD and HIS love in the Redemption of mankind. Jesus was the "Lamb slain from the foundation of the world". Planned ahead. "For this cause came I into the world."

 

[sincerly]

if peter knew jesus was waiting to be betrayed why did he put up a fight and why did the disciples ask if they should strike...?

your manipulation that jesus gave up willingly is noted.

the definition of go is

go 1 (g)
v. went (wnt), gone (gôn, gn), go·ing, goes (gz)
v.intr.
1. To move or travel; proceed: We will go by bus. Solicitors went from door to door seeking donations. How fast can the boat go?
2. To move away from a place; depart: Go before I cry.

this is obviously the context....since they asked to use the swords...

Waitasec, "Go", also, has the sense to "meet". The "departing" from a place is just a moving away from a specific spot.Jesus in John 18:1-4, "When Jesus had spoken these words, he went forth with his disciples over the brook Cedron, where was a garden, into the which he entered, and his disciples. And Judas also, which betrayed him, knew the place: for Jesus ofttimes resorted thither with his disciples. Judas then, having received a band [of men] and officers from the chief priests and Pharisees, cometh thither with lanterns and torches and weapons. Jesus therefore, knowing all things that should come upon him, went forth, and said unto them, Whom seek ye?"

Waitasec, they "cometh thither" and Jesus "went forth". The language there is a "meeting" of the groups. And the "Whom seek ye" is a clarification of who was to be arrested/taken and killed. That group had no power over Jesus. They "fell backwards" at HIS acknowledgment of who HE was. I doubt that Jesus would have allowed HIS Disciples to be Killed before they gave the HIS Message to the world.

 

[waitasec]

Waitasec, the record shows there was no "if". Jesus had plainly told the Disciples, Matt.26:2, "Ye know that after two days is [the feast of] the passover, and the Son of man is betrayed to be crucified." and in vs3-5 and Mark14:1-2,10-11 the same attested to along with Judas being the betrayer to the priest and Scribes.

What does Acts1:6 say to you? "When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel? "
The Jewish leaders had long linked the coming messiah to the restoration of the kingdom of Israel(from the Roman Empire). That wasn't the mission of Jesus, HIS Mission was in the atoning/Redeeming of the people to the Creator GOD. And "HE came unto HIS Own and they rejected HIM."
Notice how strong that belief was even in HIS reciting to them AFTER the Resurrection all the Scriptures Concerning THIS MISSION HE HAD JUST COMPLETED. (Luke 24:27, 44-48)

then why ask whether or not to draw out the swords when they were waiting?

BTW, your assumption that I "manipulated" Jesus submission to the Cross is more of your misunderstanding of GOD and HIS love in the Redemption of mankind. Jesus was the "Lamb slain from the foundation of the world". Planned ahead. "For this cause came I into the world."

why is it so important if jesus gave up willingly or not that would cause someone to be willfully ignorant of the obviously stated?
jesus was scared...an interesting thing for god to feel...don'tcha think?

 

[sincerly]

then why ask whether or not to draw out the swords when they were waiting?

I see you really did not understand the Disciples fully indoctrinated belief that the Coming Messiah would free the Jewish Nation from Roman Bondage. A crucified Messiah(dead) couldn't lead a revolt to free the Jewish Nation.

why is it so important if jesus gave up willingly or not that would cause someone to be willfully ignorant of the obviously stated?
jesus was scared...an interesting thing for god to feel...don'tcha think?

I'm not sure just what you are asking or implying in this section. Please explain. What are you claiming as "obvious"? The senario you painted wasn't as you twisted.

 

[waitasec]

I see you really did not understand the Disciples fully indoctrinated belief that the Coming Messiah would free the Jewish Nation from Roman Bondage. A crucified Messiah(dead) couldn't lead a revolt to free the Jewish Nation.

i'll ask you again, why ask jesus whether or not to draw out the swords when they were waiting IF what you say is true?
didn't you say that he didn't consider the disciples as servants but rather friends

At this time, Jesus didn't consider the Disciples as "servants". John 15:15,"Henceforth I call you not servants; for the servant knoweth not what his lord doeth: but I have called you friends; for all things that I have heard of my Father I have made known unto you.

what a tangled web you have woven...

I'm not sure just what you are asking or implying in this section. Please explain. What are you claiming as "obvious"? The senario you painted wasn't as you twisted.

all of these accounts are of jesus asking god to perform his will and not jesus'


luke 22 42 “Father, if you are willing, take this cup from me; yet not my will, but yours be done.”

mark 14 34 “My soul is overwhelmed with sorrow to the point of death,” he said to them. “Stay here and keep watch.”
35 Going a little farther, he fell to the ground and prayed that if possible the hour might pass from him. 36 “Abba,[f] Father,” he said, “everything is possible for you. Take this cup from me. Yet not what I will, but what you will.”

matthew 2638 Then he said to them, “My soul is overwhelmed with sorrow to the point of death. Stay here and keep watch with me.”
39 Going a little farther, he fell with his face to the ground and prayed, “My Father, if it is possible, may this cup be taken from me. Yet not as I will, but as you will.”

however in john 17 there is no mention of his fear...
and for some reason the one gospel that was written 50 to 60 years after this happened somehow acquired details earlier accounts don't have...

could it be that the audience for the gospel of john witnessed the destruction of the temple and the failed revolt as this account in john was a disclaimer as to why they were in the position they found themselves in...
yes the messiah died....without bringing the kingdom of heaven to his people on earth...therefore the kingdom of heaven is supposed to be in heaven undermining what the jewish tradition believed as this new cult rose from the ashes of dismay...

 

[sincerly]

i'll ask you again, why ask jesus whether or not to draw out the swords when they were waiting IF what you say is true?
didn't you say that he didn't consider the disciples as servants but rather friends

what a tangled web you have woven...

Yes, you did try to spin a lot of threads. But such a tangle is expected when one has been distorting the context. That was John who wrote Jesus would consider the Disciples "friends" rather than "servants". It was John who recorded the conversation with Pilate and said HIS servants of the "kingdom not of this world" would fight (and Matthew had recorded the conversation with Peter that those "servants" were the "legions of angels which HE could Pray for{ in HIS humanity})((As an asside, The Everlasting Gospel was/IS never to be propagated by Sword/or coercive means. Another topic.))

I take your above "re-asking" that you disbelieve/consider that being "freed from Roman Rule" was what the Disciples had in mind?? Acts1:6 Or that would be a factor in the action of Peter???

all of these accounts are of jesus asking god to perform his will and not jesus'

luke 22 42 “Father, if you are willing, take this cup from me; yet not my will, but yours be done.”

mark 14 34 “My soul is overwhelmed with sorrow to the point of death,” he said to them. “Stay here and keep watch.”
35 Going a little farther, he fell to the ground and prayed that if possible the hour might pass from him. 36 “Abba,[f] Father,” he said, “everything is possible for you. Take this cup from me. Yet not what I will, but what you will.”

matthew 2638 Then he said to them, “My soul is overwhelmed with sorrow to the point of death. Stay here and keep watch with me.”
39 Going a little farther, he fell with his face to the ground and prayed, “My Father, if it is possible, may this cup be taken from me. Yet not as I will, but as you will.”

however in john 17 there is no mention of his fear...
and for some reason the one gospel that was written 50 to 60 years after this happened somehow acquired details earlier accounts don't have...

could it be that the audience for the gospel of john witnessed the destruction of the temple and the failed revolt as this account in john was a disclaimer as to why they were in the position they found themselves in...
yes the messiah died....without bringing the kingdom of heaven to his people on earth...therefore the kingdom of heaven is supposed to be in heaven undermining what the jewish tradition believed as this new cult rose from the ashes of dismay...

I see/understand, now you are shifting from casting insinuations upon the disciples and the actions at the arrest of Jesus to the truths of the Gospel message.

The Will of GOD the Father was performed and carried out/"fullfilled" just as had been prophesied. There is nothing strange/mysterious about events writers recorded which they either witnessed or were writing concerning the memorized events which were from others who had been witnesses of the events. As Luke1:1-3 wrote: "Forasmuch as many have taken in hand to set forth in order a declaration of those things which are most surely believed among us, Even as they delivered them unto us, which from the beginning were eyewitnesses, and ministers of the word; It seemed good to me also, having had perfect understanding of all things from the very first, to write unto thee in order, most excellent Theophilus,"

Waitasec, John 17 is Jesus Christ's prayer to HIS Father at the finishing of HIS earthly ministery. Just hours before HE was to be tried and crucified "as prophesied". In that prayer, HE said, "I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do".
What was that work, waitasec ??? Wasn't it to die as a substitute for all mankind?? Exchange their guity records for HIS Total/Complete Righteousness??
Jesus took on humanity from Mary, and being God from the Holy Spirit. Jesus, in HIS humanity, was tested in all points just as Humanity had been and did NOT SIN. On the Cross, Jesus Christ was "Made Sin" by the voluntary taking of the Sins of the entire human race. Since the Scriptures are Clear that a Sinful person cannot exist in the presence of the Holy Creator GOD, Why shouldn't there be some apprehension---in the humanity/Godliness of Jesus---HE is our High Priest.
Isn't "the accussor of brethren" ready to say, You can't Stand in the presence of the Holy Father, GOD? See Zech.3:1-5 or Jude 9 as Satan is always "standing by to resist".

But as you rightly quoted, "luke 22 42 “Father, if you are willing, take this cup from me; yet not my will, but yours be done.” and Jesus said, John19:30, "When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.

What was finished---the mission HE came to do, Teach the Apostles/Disciples the Truths of the Everlasting Gospel which included the interpretation/revealing of the meaning of those "shadowy animal sacrifices" as pointing to HIS Death on the Cross for those Human Beings who accept HIS Sacrifice as payment for their death penalty.

 

[waitasec]

Yes, you did try to spin a lot of threads. But such a tangle is expected when one has been distorting the context. That was John who wrote Jesus would consider the Disciples "friends" rather than "servants". It was John who recorded the conversation with Pilate and said HIS servants of the "kingdom not of this world" would fight (and Matthew had recorded the conversation with Peter that those "servants" were the "legions of angels which HE could Pray for{ in HIS humanity})((As an asside, The Everlasting Gospel was/IS never to be propagated by Sword/or coercive means. Another topic.))

I take your above "re-asking" that you disbelieve/consider that being "freed from Roman Rule" was what the Disciples had in mind?? Acts1:6 Or that would be a factor in the action of Peter???

I see/understand, now you are shifting from casting insinuations upon the disciples and the actions at the arrest of Jesus to the truths of the Gospel message.
The Will of GOD the Father was performed and carried out/"fullfilled" just as had been prophesied. There is nothing strange/mysterious about events writers recorded which they either witnessed or were writing concerning the memorized events which were from others who had been witnesses of the events. As Luke1:1-3 wrote: "Forasmuch as many have taken in hand to set forth in order a declaration of those things which are most surely believed among us, Even as they delivered them unto us, which from the beginning were eyewitnesses, and ministers of the word; It seemed good to me also, having had perfect understanding of all things from the very first, to write unto thee in order, most excellent Theophilus,"

Waitasec, John 17 is Jesus Christ's prayer to HIS Father at the finishing of HIS earthly ministery. Just hours before HE was to be tried and crucified "as prophesied". In that prayer, HE said, "I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do".
What was that work, waitasec ??? Wasn't it to die as a substitute for all mankind?? Exchange their guity records for HIS Total/Complete Righteousness??
Jesus took on humanity from Mary, and being God from the Holy Spirit. Jesus, in HIS humanity, was tested in all points just as Humanity had been and did NOT SIN. On the Cross, Jesus Christ was "Made Sin" by the voluntary taking of the Sins of the entire human race. Since the Scriptures are Clear that a Sinful person cannot exist in the presence of the Holy Creator GOD, Why shouldn't there be some apprehension---in the humanity/Godliness of Jesus---HE is our High Priest.
Isn't "the accussor of brethren" ready to say, You can't Stand in the presence of the Holy Father, GOD? See Zech.3:1-5 or Jude 9 as Satan is always "standing by to resist".

But as you rightly quoted, "luke 22 42 “Father, if you are willing, take this cup from me; yet not my will, but yours be done.” and Jesus said, John19:30, "When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.

What was finished---the mission HE came to do, Teach the Apostles/Disciples the Truths of the Everlasting Gospel which included the interpretation/revealing of the meaning of those "shadowy animal sacrifices" as pointing to HIS Death on the Cross for those Human Beings who accept HIS Sacrifice as payment for their death penalty.

if jesus considered his disciples to be his friends and told them "for all things that I have heard of my Father I have made known unto you."
why didn't they know what they were waiting for since they asked if they should draw their swords...? you are purposefully being dishonest and i enjoy watching you squirm so please continue with your lies...it is quite entertaining...

 

[sincerly]

if jesus considered his disciples to be his friends and told them "for all things that I have heard of my Father I have made known unto you."
why didn't they know what they were waiting for since they asked if they should draw their swords...? you are purposefully being dishonest and i enjoy watching you squirm so please continue with your lies...it is quite entertaining...

Those disciples were just as human as you are. It is hard to put aside a wrongly preconceived idea/opinion/even in the face of Truth. Your posts are proof positive for that fact. The Contextual facts have "been made known to you"....even in the face of your claims which are contrary to the Gospel Mission of Jesus.

You realize that you have stepped over from directing your comments toward my posts to my person.
Hey, I'm happy you are entertained. My giving Truthful answers is, also, enlightening.

 

[waitasec]

Those disciples were just as human as you are. It is hard to put aside a wrongly preconceived idea/opinion/even in the face of Truth. Your posts are proof positive for that fact. The Contextual facts have "been made known to you"....even in the face of your claims which are contrary to the Gospel Mission of Jesus.

then jesus was confused or the gospel writers were...

You realize that you have stepped over from directing your comments toward my posts to my person.
Hey, I'm happy you are entertained. My giving Truthful answers is, also, enlightening.

dishonest tactics are dishonest tactics...

 

[sincerly]

then jesus was confused or the gospel writers were...

Wrong...
Your answer verifies

Those disciples were just as human as you are. It is hard to put aside a wrongly preconceived idea/opinion/even in the face of Truth. Your posts are proof positive for that fact. The Contextual facts have "been made known to you"....even in the face of your claims which are contrary to the Gospel Mission of Jesus.

dishonest tactics are dishonest tactics...

As seen in your posts, you have mastered the art.

 

[waitasec]

Wrong...
Your answer verifies

you have yet to show me otherwise

As seen in your posts, you have mastered the art.

show me where i was dishonest

 

[sincerly]

you have yet to show me otherwise

show me where i was dishonest

"Show Me" "Show Me", I have in many posts from the OP. All you have to do is read them.