"Iceland Could Become first Country to Ban Male Circumcision"

[Enoch07]

Exactly! That's why circumcision on them is so abhorrent. It is an unnecessary practice that can be done later on if they want to.

Then why do you not apply the same to kids transitioning?

 

[Rival]

Didn't Germany already do this?

 

[Buddha Dharma]

Didn't Germany already do this?

Did they? I hadn't heard...

 

[Koldo]

Then why do you not apply the same to kids transitioning?

What life altering decision is being done to them ?
You mentioned puberty blockers, but it can't be that. What is it ?

 

[Buddha Dharma]

I wonder why it is that conservatives can't stick to the issue being discussed when they want to slide by without being challenged? Thus far, conservatives in this thread have brought up prostitution and gender transitioning, rather than addressing circumcision.

Prostitution and gender transitioning are non-sequiturs. We're discussing the non-consensual mutilation of an infant child's genitals.

 

[Enoch07]

What life altering decision is being done to them ?
You mentioned puberty blockers, but it can't be that. What is it ?

Gender reassignment surgery is permanent.

Puberty blockers and hormone therapy cause permanent sterilisation and can stunt physical and mental growth. Which they can start on as early a age 10.

So

Why is cutting a flap of skin child abuse, but permanently changing primary and secondary sex characteristics and body chemistry not considered child abuse?

 

[Enoch07]

I wonder why it is that conservatives can't stick to the issue being discussed when they want to slide by without being challenged? Thus far, conservatives in this thread have brought up prostitution and gender transitioning, rather than addressing circumcision.

Prostitution and gender transitioning are non-sequiturs. We're discussing the non-consensual mutilation of an infant child's genitals.

So you don't consider gender reassignment surgery on children younger than 10, as mutilation/child abuse?

 

[Father Heathen]

This is a case of outsiders telling parents what to do.

So you would abolish the CPS?

 

[Buddha Dharma]

So you don't consider gender reassignment surgery on children younger than 10, as mutilation/child abuse?

I think before ten is likely too young, but that's not what this thread is about. I'd love to hear what conservatives think about non-consensual genital mutilation in infants.

 

[Father Heathen]

Ah, sexism is alive and well.

Not that male circumcision gets a pass, but female mutilation is significantly worse, as it removes the clitoris. For male circumcision to be equivalent they would not only have to remove the foreskin but the head of the penis as well.

 

[Enoch07]

I think before ten is likely too young, but that's not what this thread is about. I'd love to hear what conservatives think about non-consensual genital mutilation in infants.

You can ban circumcisions for infants for all I care. If someone wants it later in life they can easily go get snipped zip a dee do dah who cares.

So parents that ok gender reassignment before age 18 are child abusers then?

 

[Buddha Dharma]

So parents that ok gender reassignment before age 18 are child abusers then?

Is there a reason you're determined to have it out regarding gender reassignment in a thread about circumcision? I'll answer you once I guess:

I think children are on the whole mature enough to know something like their gender identity before 18. That's a whole different bag of marbles than a 10 year old.

This just goes to show why we need clearly outlined ideas about children's rights in this country. Then stuff like this wouldn't have to be case by case, determined on an individual judge's whim.

Children deserve better than our legal system gives them. Why is 18 the magical age? Because we're not willing to have a more serious conversation about children's rights as a society?

In example- I definitely think it is reasonably within a child's rights to be protected from the torture methods of 'ex-gay' 'therapy' and not have it foisted on them by their parents. How about you?

 

[Koldo]

Gender reassignment surgery is permanent.

Who's doing gender reassignment on 3 years old children??

That's extremely abusive!

Puberty blockers and hormone therapy cause permanent sterilisation and can stunt physical and mental growth. Which they can start on as early a age 10.

So

Why is cutting a flap of skin child abuse, but permanently changing primary and secondary sex characteristics and body chemistry not considered child abuse?

Wait. You are talking about 10 years old now and not 3 years old. That's huge age gap.

We can debate about what a 10 years old can consent to and at what age one can consent to hormony therapy. But it is not up to debate that a 3 years old can't consent to anything.

 

[HonestJoe]

So in Iceland prostitution is legal but participating in divinely established covenant by circumcising is not.

Prostitution is (or was) legal for adults, just as circumcision would remain if this law is implemented. If some religious organisation claimed children having sex was a “divinely established covenant” in their faith, I’d hope you agree that shouldn’t be permitted.

 

[bobhikes]

​

So, is the prohibition of circumcision really an unjustified attack on freedom of religion?

.

Its an attack against personal freedom's but if the ban baby piercings as well I would support it.

 

[Father Heathen]

And all too often this is what happens with people who have been circumcised

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They start compensating for the loss.

.

Not defending the practice, but circumcision doesn't significantly effect penis size, and the foreskin is pulled back anyway when erect.

 

[Enoch07]

I think children are on the whole mature enough to know something like their gender identity before 18. That's a whole different bag of marbles than a 10 year old.

At what age do you think children are able to make life changing decisions (consent)?

Children deserve better than our legal system gives them. Why is 18 the magical age? Because we're not willing to have a more serious conversation about children's rights as a society?

There is a reason why 18 is a magical number, brain development. It can even be argued at 18 the brain is not developed quite enough but I'll stick with 18 for now. Children don't have full rights of adults because they are not capable of considering the consequences of their actions.

 

[Enoch07]

Who's doing gender reassignment on 3 years old children??

That's extremely abusive!



Wait. You are talking about 10 years old now and not 3 years old. That's huge age gap.

We can debate about what a 10 years old can consent to and at what age one can consent to hormony therapy. But it is not up to debate that a 3 years old can't consent to anything.

Not as far as consent is concerned. A 10 year old is no more able to consider the consequences of life changing decisions than a 3 year old.

Btw there is a 4 year old in Australia who has decided to gender reassignment surgery before they have attended their first day in kindergarten, and a court approved the decision.

Yes, a four-year-old child allowed to undergo sex change

 

[Mindmaster]

So, is the prohibition of circumcision really an unjustified attack on freedom of religion?

I've never understood the point of it personally, other than so Jewish/Christian ladies could tell if their mate was the same. But, I mean, you could just ask.

The argument that some cutting has to be done on a children is as ridiculous as it sounds. I find all of this obsession with baby genitalia and those of young persons excessively disturbing as well. How about people just leave the kids alone? it has nothing to do with religious beliefs anyway, it's just bizarre to fuss over this.

 

[Vee]

It is a tricky situation because parents want to have the right to make decisions for their children but at the same time they are not taking in consideration that the child is an individual that is being denied a choice because he's not old enough to say no.
Since circumcision can't be reversed later, I think it should only be allowed when the boy is old enough to make that decision himself.