Ideas concerning the cross. || JESUS ADHERENTS ONLY.

[djhwoodwerks]

When Christianity was in its infancy, it was one message, and quite simple.

You're right, it was quite simple,

Acts 8:34-36 (ESV Strong's) 34 And the eunuch said to Philip, “About whom, I ask you, does the prophet say this, about himself or about someone else?” 35 Then Philip opened his mouth, and beginning with this Scripture he told him the good news about Jesus. 36 And as they were going along the road they came to some water, and the eunuch said, “See, here is water! What prevents me from being baptized?”

It wasn't about the name Jehovah, it wasn't about there being a hell or not, it wasn't about pagan holidays, it wasn't about paradise earth, it wasn't about mandatory obedience to some governing body, it was, "the good news ABOUT Jesus"! That's why it takes someone months or years to be baptized a witness, so they can be indoctrinated with all your beliefs first, not just hear "the good news about Jesus".

 

[Deeje]

You're right, it was quite simple,

Acts 8:34-36 (ESV Strong's) 34 And the eunuch said to Philip, “About whom, I ask you, does the prophet say this, about himself or about someone else?” 35 Then Philip opened his mouth, and beginning with this Scripture he told him the good news about Jesus. 36 And as they were going along the road they came to some water, and the eunuch said, “See, here is water! What prevents me from being baptized?”

What is the good news about Jesus djh? The eunuch was an Ethiopian proselyte who was reading a prophesy in Isaiah. The scriptures were talking about the future Messiah, so to Jews, that was "the good news about Jesus".....identifying him as that one.

To Gentiles who entertained very different concepts about gods, the good news about Jesus was like Paul's address to the Greek philosophers at the Areogopagus recorded at Acts 17:22-31.

To those who live in the time of the end, it means helping honest hearted ones to sift through the false religious teachings of Babylon the great. Included in that good news is the true identity of Jesus Christ as the "son of God".....not "God the Son". No such person exists in scripture and I believe it is blasphemy to say that he does.

It wasn't about the name Jehovah, it wasn't about there being a hell or not, it wasn't about pagan holidays, it wasn't about paradise earth, it wasn't about mandatory obedience to some governing body, it was, "the good news ABOUT Jesus"! That's why it takes someone months or years to be baptized a witness, so they can be indoctrinated with all your beliefs first, not just hear "the good news about Jesus".

If you want to believe that, then you are welcome to it. If there is indoctrination, then look no further than the fractured state of Christendom and her adopted beliefs. All of the things Christendom holds dear are relics from Babylon. The greater Babylon is a global empire created by the devil to suppress the truth about God and his Christ. If you have no need to extract yourself from that arrangement, then what is there left to say. You can believe whatever you wish.

 

[djhwoodwerks]

You are misunderstanding the scripture. There is more than one way to "come to life".

The 'kings and priests' along with Jesus Christ, are bringing a world of redeemed mankind back to their original state....the physical, spiritual and moral perfection that Adam once enjoyed. Just as those to whom the good news was preached in the first century, were said to be "dead in their trespasses and sins" so the resurrected dead will take the full term of the Kingdom's rule to reach perfection and "come to life"....endless, sinless life. How do we know this? Because God would not have appointed the rulers in the kingdom to also be priests unless there were sinners for whom to intercede and to perform their priestly duties.

There is no "truth" in anything you said in this post. You are misquoting scripture,

Ephesians 2:1-5 (ESV Strong's) 1 And you "were" dead in the trespasses and sins 2 in which you once walked, following the course of this world, following the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that is now at work in the sons of disobedience— 3 among whom we all once lived in the passions of our flesh, carrying out the desires of the body and the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, like the rest of mankind. 4 But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us, 5 even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ.

He's talking to living people when he says, "And you WERE dead", "which you ONCE walked" sounds like past tense, doesn't it? He goes on to say, "even when we WERE dead" in our trespasses. "but God made us alive together with Christ".

None of what you are saying has to do with the resurrection.

How do we know this? Because God would not have appointed the rulers in the kingdom to also be priests unless there were sinners for whom to intercede and to perform their priestly duties.

How can this be Deeje? How can there be "sinners" in paradise earth? Adam sinned and was kicked out of paradise, wasn't he? Now God is going to let sinners in? How can anyone still be a sinner when resurrected?

*** bh p. 214 par. 3 Judgment Day—What Is It? ***
According to the apostle John’s vision, “scrolls were opened,” and “the dead were judged out of those things written in the scrolls according to their deeds.” (Revelation 20:12) Are these scrolls the record of people’s past deeds? No, the judgment will not focus on what people did before they died. How do we know that? The Bible says: “The one who has died has been acquitted from his sin.” (Romans 6:7) Those resurrected thus come to life with a clean slate, so to speak.

There will be no need for priests, because there will be no sinners, because everyone is "acquitted" of their sin when they die, they are resurrected with a clean slate, correct? If we are acquitted sins, we can't ever be judged again for our sins. Acquitted means, found innocent of all charges, not guilty. Why would there need to be priests?

 

[djhwoodwerks]

You are still 'hell bent' on proving that JW's have it all wrong, aren't you djh?

Not at all Deeje, just trying to show that your "organization" is no different than any religion. That your "organization" is not the, only, true and perfect religion.

This obsession of yours is really sad IMO.

Of course it is, because it brings out the different standards that your teachers teach. Your teachers teach that "all error is of the devil", but that is only for Christendom, not for them.

If we are wrong, then we are happy with our beliefs.

So are people of other religions! What is your obsession with telling them they are wrong and must join your org to be right?

Your little group can be whatever you want them to be....your own leader is a human, yet you believe what he teaches....? Why?

I don't have a "human leader", I have teachers. And I believe my teachers because they have never told me that I "MUST" accept what they teach without question. They have never said, "God and Jesus completely trusts me, so you should too". They have never said, "I am the only one that God communicates with". They have never said, "I'm going to heaven, you're not. I'm your leader now and will be your king and rule over you in paradise".

 

[djhwoodwerks]

I see that you haven't addressed any of the criticisms made about your own church's teachings and practices......very telling.

What criticisms have been made about "my" church?

You seem so focused on our beliefs that you seem to ignore the flaws in your own....

Lol, right back at you sister! You're so focused on the beliefs of "Christendom", that you don't, or won't acknowledge the flaws, false teachings, lies and deceit in your own org. You always have some justification for them. The "error" your teachers make are always blamed on "Trinity translation" correction.

All of the things Christendom holds dear are relics from Babylon.

All of the "things"? I hold dear that, Jesus is Lord and God raised Him from the dead, that He died for my sins, that, the human/flesh and blood Jesus is the Son of God, that there is no other name nor any other way for one to be saved except by Jesus. And I guess since I believe that, and I'm part of the evil Christendom, you don't, because my beliefs aren't correct.

Included in that good news is the true identity of Jesus Christ as the "son of God".....not "God the Son". No such person exists in scripture and I believe it is blasphemy to say that he does.

All thru the Epistles it tells of how God raised Jesus from the dead, but what did Jesus Himself say,

John 2:18-19 (ESV Strong's) 18 So the Jews said to him, “What sign do you show us for doing these things?” 19 Jesus answered them, “Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.”

John 10:17-18 (ESV Strong's) For this reason the Father loves me, because I lay down my life that I may take it up again. 18 No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord. I have authority to lay it down, and I have authority to take it up again. This charge I have received from my Father.”

If God raised Jesus from the dead, and Jesus said He raised Himself, and the "Father" (not God the Father, or God) gave Him the authority to raise Himself, Jesus is part of the Godhead.

 

[djhwoodwerks]

The scriptures were talking about the future Messiah, so to Jews, that was "the good news about Jesus".....identifying him as that one.

Correct! But you still believe that Philip made sure the eunuch knew that God's name was Jehovah, that he "had" to use that name, that there was no literal hell, that he would be resurrected to paradise earth and not heaven?

My brothers are always researching in the scriptures in search of new understanding.

If someone believes they have the truth, why would they still be "searching" for new understandings?

 

[djhwoodwerks]

*** w50 11/15 p. 462 Fraudulent Religious Relics ***
All error and lies are of the Devil and are certainly a great reproach and dishonor to God. (John 8:44; Rom. 1:25) Consequently, Jehovah is against all such pious frauds that teach lies in His name and He will clean them out at Armageddon.

Back to 1950 again...you jump around all over the place.....got something up to date?

So there has been new light on the 1950 teaching that "ALL error is of the devil"? Is it just the error of Christendom that is of the devil now and not the error of your teachers?

Do you tell them that your 'slave' is Jesus' "substitute?

No because that is not true.

If you are representing someone, you speak on their behalf. You become their "substitute" in spreading or disseminating their message. The use of the word "substitutes" merely conveyed the accuracy of the statement.

If you have a public speaker who cannot fulfill an engagement for some reason, then a substitute speaker will be normally be sought rather than to cancel the engagement. Since the work Jesus commanded required those who would speak on his behalf, then I have no problem calling his brothers "substitutes". He appointed them so they are authorised to speak on his behalf.

Interesting.

2 Corinthians 5:20 (ESV Strong's) 20 Therefore, we are ambassadors for Christ,

So the ambassador of the United States in another country is the "substitute" for the United States?

And that "substitute" speaker is going to speak on the exact topic the original speaker was to speak on? He/she has all the same notes and ideas the original speaker has?

It's adding a word to the verse that doesn't belong!

 

[Deeje]

Not at all Deeje, just trying to show that your "organization" is no different than any religion. That your "organization" is not the, only, true and perfect religion.

No earthly organization of men is ever going to be "perfect " in this system....mine included. But 'truth' is a whole other thing. I just understand what that truth is......coming out of Christendom, I have been on both sides of this fence. There are many like me who see the flaws in Christendom's teachings and the utter hypocrisy in their conduct......some choose to throw religion away altogether, and others look for other ways to express their spirituality. That is their choice.

But the only way to make an informed choice is to evaluate all the information you can about a subject. That includes taking into account both sides, not just one distorted view. Since I have been in both camps here I can tell you how I evaluated the evidence for myself.

What is your obsession with telling them they are wrong and must join your org to be right?

I already explained that. It is no different to Jesus telling the Jews that their distorted version of Judaism was not what God had taught them through Moses. God had sent his prophets all through their history to correct them but they refused to listen most of the time. (Matthew 23:37-39) If Jesus had not come to correct them one last time, they would have continued to imagine that the Pharisees were teaching God's truth....and as it turned out, the majority of them did anyway. If the son of God could not convince his own nation of the truth, then what hope have mere mortals to do so? (Matthew 24:37-39)

All we can do is preach the message as Jesus instructed and God does the rest. (Matthew 28:19-20; John 6:44) How is your church doing in that regard? You never mention your world wide preaching activities for some reason.
So, from our perspective, its not up to you to determine who responds to our message either positively or negatively......that's up to God. Unless you think he isn't up to the task...?

Jesus knows who is "doing the will of the Father" and who is not. (Matthew 7:21-23) I'll leave that up to him.

I don't have a "human leader", I have teachers.

We do too. You believe yours...we believe ours. We each have that choice.

And I believe my teachers because they have never told me that I "MUST" accept what they teach without question.

Neither have mine. We are taught to check everything out for ourselves like the Beroeans. (Acts 17:11) Who has told you that nonsense?

They have never said, "God and Jesus completely trusts me, so you should too".

So you don't have that kind of trust in your own teachers then? If Jesus said he was going to appoint a "faithful and discreet slave" in this time of the end.....then who is he? Is he teaching pagan doctrines under a Christian label? And if Jesus said that the slave would feed his household "their food at the proper time", it's obvious that the "food" is not served all at once either.

They have never said, "I am the only one that God communicates with". They have never said, "I'm going to heaven, you're not. I'm your leader now and will be your king and rule over you in paradise".

Ah, now we are getting to the 'nitty gritty'. Apparently, you have your sights set on heaven and we would not recognize you as one of Christ's anointed. Because that is God's choice and not any man's, we cannot volunteer for a heavenly position. The finite ranks of Christ's "joint heirs" have already been filled and we believe that God has stopped taking applications. How disappointing that would be for you.

But you still believe that Philip made sure the eunuch knew that God's name was Jehovah, that he "had" to use that name, that there was no literal hell, that he would be resurrected to paradise earth and not heaven?

Were did we ever say that? The simple truth about Christ's identity as Messiah was not polluted with the false religious beliefs common in Christendom. They were completely missing from Christ's teachings. Jesus said he came to make his Father's name known to his disciples.......so in a climate where the Jews had ceased to utter the divine name, Jesus wasn't having a bar of that. In prayer to his Father Jesus said...."I have made your name known to them and will make it known, so that the love with which you loved me may be in them and I in union with them." (John 17:26)

The followers of Jesus were said to be "a people for [God's] name" (Acts 15:14)

If someone believes they have the truth, why would they still be "searching" for new understandings?

Why? Because the "sacred secret" was not revealed all at once. No one fully understood Genesis 3:15, (the very first prophesy in the Bible) until Christ came. And even then it was still a hazy outline, coming more fully into focus at the time of the end.

As Paul said....."Now we speak wisdom among those who are mature, but not the wisdom of this system of things nor that of the rulers of this system of things, who are to come to nothing. 7 But we speak God’s wisdom in a sacred secret, the hidden wisdom, which God foreordained before the systems of things for our glory. 8 It is this wisdom that none of the rulers of this system of things came to know, for if they had known it, they would not have executed the glorious Lord. 9 But just as it is written: “Eye has not seen and ear has not heard, nor have there been conceived in the heart of man the things that God has prepared for those who love him.” 10 For it is to us God has revealed them through his spirit, for the spirit searches into all things, even the deep things of God." (1 Corinthians 2:6-16)

As I said to you before.....If you want to believe that JW's are wrong, then you are welcome to hold that view. If there is indoctrination, then I look no further than the fractured state of Christendom and all of her beliefs adopted from paganism. All of the things Christendom holds dear are relics from Babylon. I can list them all. The greater Babylon is a global empire created by the devil to suppress the truth and confuse the identity of God and his Christ. If you have no need to extract yourself from that arrangement, then what is there left to say.

Go in peace and I hope that the trust you hold in your teachers will not be a disappointment to you. Time will tell, won't it?

 

[djhwoodwerks]

Jesus knows who is "doing the will of the Father" and who is not. (Matthew 7:21-23) I'll leave that up to him.

You say that, but you're not leaving it up to Him, are you? You tell everyone that only your org is "doing the will of the Father" and if they don't belong to your org, they aren't, they are part of the false religion of Christendom, correct?

If Jesus had not come to correct them one last time, they would have continued to imagine that the Pharisees were teaching God's truth

Did Jesus tell the people to do and observe all the false teachings of the Pharisees?

Matthew 23:1-3 (ESV Strong's) 1 Then Jesus said to the crowds and to his disciples, 2 “The scribes and the Pharisees sit on Moses' seat, 3 so do and observe whatever they tell you, but not the works they do. For they preach, but do not practice.

But the only way to make an informed choice is to evaluate all the information you can about a subject.

Very true, that's why I'm here, to reveal the fine print and the hidden and false teachings of your org so people don't just get the up front "pretty things" that you all like to share.

And I believe my teachers because they have never told me that I "MUST" accept what they teach without question.

Neither have mine. We are taught to check everything out for ourselves like the Beroeans. (Acts 17:11) Who has told you that nonsense?

Your own literature told me that "nonsense"!

*** w86 4/1 p. 31 Questions From Readers ***
Approved association with Jehovah’s Witnesses requires accepting the entire range of the true teachings of the Bible, including those Scriptural beliefs that are unique to Jehovah’s Witnesses.

"Approved association" REQUIRES ACCEPTING whatever your teachers say.

So you don't have that kind of trust in your own teachers then?

I trust the people I listen to, because they tell everyone not to accept their teaching just because they teach it. They have never said they should be completely trusted because "God and Jesus" do. How can anyone know that God and Jesus "completely trusts" them?

 

[djhwoodwerks]

Ah, now we are getting to the 'nitty gritty'. Apparently, you have your sights set on heaven and we would not recognize you as one of Christ's anointed. Because that is God's choice and not any man's, we cannot volunteer for a heavenly position. The finite ranks of Christ's "joint heirs" have already been filled and we believe that God has stopped taking applications. How disappointing that would be for you.

Not disappointing to me at all, because I don't believe it. Who's going to be disappointed are people like Noah and Abraham and Issac and David and so on. They were walking with God, they have their life stories in the Bible, but, they got ousted by the 7 men sitting in New York! How does your 'slave' know that all 144,000 weren't already filled back in the first century? I mean, in ONE day there were 3,000 people anointed.

Acts 2:41 (ESV Strong's) So those who received his word were baptized, and there were added that day about three thousand souls.

And how do we know they were anointed you may ask,

Acts 2:38 (ESV Strong's) 38 And Peter said to them, “Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

And how do we know Peter wasn't just speaking to a select few?

Acts 2:14 (ESV Strong's) 14 But Peter, standing with the eleven, lifted up his voice and addressed them: “Men of Judea and all who dwell in Jerusalem,

Acts 2:22 (ESV Strong's) 22 “Men of Israel, hear these words:

 

[djhwoodwerks]

Back to 1950 again...you jump around all over the place.....got something up to date?

This quote is from the 2013 watchtower, only 4 years ago.

*** w13 8/15 p. 8 Questions From Readers ***
Would it be appropriate for Christian parents to sit with a disfellowshipped child at congregation meetings?
▪ There is no reason to be unduly concerned about the seating location of a disfellowshipped person in the Kingdom Hall. This magazine has made every effort to encourage Christian parents to provide spiritual help to their disfellowshipped child who is still living at home if it seems fitting to do so. As indicated on pages 19 and 20 of the November 15, 1988, issue of The Watchtower, parents may even study the Bible with a disfellowshipped minor who continues to live with them. It is hoped that the child will thus receive the encouragement necessary to correct his course.

I guess it's only ok to quote the "positive" out of date material, huh? It's just the stuff they got wrong that is "out of date" and not accepted. Or is it just not accepted when someone outside the org brings up old stuff?

 

[djhwoodwerks]

It is no different to Jesus telling the Jews that their distorted version of Judaism

Oh, it's a lot different, Jesus didn't teach mistakes and expect everyone to accept it!

No one fully understood Genesis 3:15, (the very first prophesy in the Bible) until Christ came.

And you know that how?

And even then it was still a hazy outline, coming more fully into focus at the time of the end.

Let me guess, not until your "real teachers" got the new light?

 

[djhwoodwerks]

But you still believe that Philip made sure the eunuch knew that God's name was Jehovah, that he "had" to use that name, that there was no literal hell, that he would be resurrected to paradise earth and not heaven?

Were did we ever say that?

Witnesses don't say things exactly in words, do they? You're trying to deny what I said is true, but you can't.

Don't you believe that one has to have "accurate knowledge" for baptism? Then how could the eunuch have been baptized if he wasn't taught that he had to use the name Jehovah, or that hell was not literal, or that he was going to be resurrected to paradise earth, maybe, if he was found to be good enough?

 

[Deeje]

You say that, but you're not leaving it up to Him, are you? You tell everyone that only your org is "doing the will of the Father" and if they don't belong to your org, they aren't, they are part of the false religion of Christendom.correct?

Would you like a complete list of the scriptural reasons why I left Christendom?

I will provide some teachings of my former church compared to those I learned from the Bible.

The biggest one was the trinity of course. Nowhere in all of scripture did Jesus ever say he was God or in any way equal with his Father. Nowhere in all of scripture is the holy spirit called God. Only the Father is God. Only the Father bears the name YHWH (Yahweh, Jehovah, however you wish to pronounce it. Psalm 83:18 KJV.) You can't have three gods squeezed into one head an still claim to be monotheistic. Jesus was Jewish and they did not believe that their God was a threesome. (Deuteronomy 6:4)

The second biggest eye opener for me was the condition of the dead. The Bible says that the dead are unconscious in their graves (Ecclesiastes 9:5, 10) and that these await a physical resurrection to life on earth.....the church taught me that the dead go to either heaven or hell, depending on the kind of life they have led here.

Hell as an everlasting fiery destination for the wicked is all twisted out of shape by the churches. Nowhere does the Bible say that the wicked go to hell. Bad translations of the Bible do not differentiate between "hades" and "gehenna".....yet the two words are invariably translated "hell". Both have completely different meanings. Neither means what Christendom teaches. Adam was never taught that he would go to heaven or hell...he was offered life or death....that's all. Israel was offered the same. (Deuteronomy 30:19)

Participation in war was one involvement of the church that I could never understand. Churches were often used as military recruiting stations in times of war. Chaplains were part of the military and automatically attained the rank of captain (along with a fat salary.) There is no sanction for war in Christianity. In fact God has not sanctioned a war for thousands of years. (Romans 12:17-20)

The resurrection was always an obscure topic....it mostly related to the resurrection of Jesus but was never spoken about for mankind in general. I was surprised to learn that there was no immortal soul that departed from the body at death and that Jews believed in bodily resurrection back to life on earth under Messiah's kingdom.

It is assumed that we all have this shadowy thing inside us that consciously goes somewhere when the body dies. But that idea was adopted from the Greeks, not the Bible. The fact is, that the "soul" in the Bible is the living, breathing creature, whether man or beast. When the body dies, the soul dies too. Man has no superiority over animals in death. (Ezekiel 18:4; Ecclesiastes 3:19-20)

Resurrection for humans means a return to life for those "sleeping" in their graves. Christ calls them out of there. (John 5:28-29) just as he called Lazarus out of his tomb. (John 11:11-14)

There are two separate resurrections spoken about in the Bible. Those chosen for heavenly life will "rise first". (Revelation 20:6) Those who will be their earthly subjects will be raised after the Kingdom's rule is established on earth. (Revelation 21:2-4)

The resurrection of Jesus was believed to be a bodily resurrection to heaven so that somehow Christ returned to the Father in a physical body. That is not what the scriptures teach. Christ was "put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit". (1 Peter 3:18) All of those who will reign with Christ will also be raised in a spirit body in order to be able to dwell in the presence of God.

The origin of the cross as a religious symbol. There is nothing in the Bible that says Christ died on a cross. The Greek word used for the instrument of torture was "stauros" which is a single upright pole or stake. Regardless of the shape of that instrument, it is bizarre to make a replica of the thing used to put someone you love to death and cherish it. It is also bizarre to hang it up in a place of worship or to adorn our bodies with it as jewelry.
When God's law said not to make an image of "anything" that is used in worship, we believe he meant it.

Do the miracles that were performed in the first century still occur today? Only a fool would say so when comparing the healings and resurrections that Jesus and his apostles performed. If those kinds of healings were still taking place, there would be no need for hospitals. There would be a healer in each one and miracles would be an everyday occurrence. (Luke 4:40) If it is the same holy spirit at work, then it should have the same power...it clearly doesn't. Most are under the influence of the placebo effect.

Being "NO part of the world"......means no meddling in politics, no supporting of immorality which includes gay marriage, no support for the wars of the nations or condoning of the bloodshed in those conflicts.

Jesus said..."If the world hates you, you know that it has hated me before it hated you. 19 If you were part of the world, the world would be fond of what is its own. Now because you are no part of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, for this reason the world hates you. 20 Keep in mind the word I said to you: A slave is not greater than his master. If they have persecuted me, they will also persecute you; if they have observed my word, they will also observe yours. 21 But they will do all these things against you on account of my name, because they do not know the One who sent me." (John 15:18-21)

Being chosen "out of the world" means that we stand out as completely different to it. Just like the wheat would in no way resemb;e the weeds at the time of the harvest.So how hated is your church for doing what Christ commanded djh? How are people to hear the message if no one is out preaching? Does it mean people are going to listen? Not according to Jesus. (Matthew 24:37-39)


So, there is no way I could see Christendom as even Christianity. It is the modern day counterpart of first century Judaism......contaminated by man-made traditions and the teachings of men.

Did Jesus tell the people to do and observe all the false teachings of the Pharisees?

Are you suggesting that the churches are modern day Pharisees? Jesus told the Jews not to imitate their behavior....but it is obvious that what they taught was contaminated.

Matthew 16:6, 11-12..."Jesus said to them: “Keep your eyes open and watch out for the leaven of the Pharisees and Sadducees”.......How is it you do not discern that I did not speak to you about bread? But watch out for the leaven of the Pharisees and Sadducees.” Then they grasped that he said to watch out, not for the leaven of bread, but for the teaching of the Pharisees and Sadducees."

We have to watch out for that leaven too.....

Very true, that's why I'm here, to reveal the fine print and the hidden and false teachings of your org so people don't just get the up front "pretty things" that you all like to share.

Oh dear...djh the savior of the world doesn't trust Jesus to know his own....? Those who study the Bible with us are made aware of all our teachings. How do I know this....I was one of them once. I knew exactly what I was signing up for. I know what I teach my own students. This accusation of something sinister is all in your own head.....and if you have gleaned your misinformation from apostates, then you are in appropriate company. Believe whatever you wish.

"Approved association" REQUIRES ACCEPTING whatever your teachers say.

Our teachers teach what Christ taught in the Bible. Yours do not. So your acceptance of what they teach shows you have no interest in the truth...only in being right. Can't we let Jesus decide whether he wants you in heaven or not?

I trust the people I listen to, because they tell everyone not to accept their teaching just because they teach it.

Neither do mine. I should know, I have been a Witness for 45 years and have never seen what you seem to think is true of us. We are preachers as everyone knows and we follow the Bible's teaching in all things......so what about your church djs......will they be calling on me with "the good news of the kingdom" any time soon.....I wonder why you never answer this question?

They have never said they should be completely trusted because "God and Jesus" do. How can anyone know that God and Jesus "completely trusts" them?

I think their activity in every nation on earth is testimony to their obedience to Christ's commands. You may think otherwise...

 

[djhwoodwerks]

Nowhere in all of scripture did Jesus ever say he was God or in any way equal with his Father.

Nowhere in all of scripture did Jesus ever say He was Michael the archangel, but you believe He is.

Nowhere in all of scripture is the holy spirit called God.

Acts 5:3-4 (ESV Strong's) But Peter said, “Ananias, why has Satan filled your heart to lie to the Holy Spirit and to keep back for yourself part of the proceeds of the land? 4 While it remained unsold, did it not remain your own? And after it was sold, was it not at your disposal? Why is it that you have contrived this deed in your heart? You have not lied to man but to God.”

You can't have three gods squeezed into one head

We don't, we have three persons, "squeezed" into one God, NOT three Gods, there is only ONE God.

Matthew 28:19 (ESV Strong's) Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,

There is only ONE name for all three members of the Godhead and that name is Jesus, or however you want to pronounce it, but it's NOT Jehovah.

The Bible says that the dead are unconscious in their graves (Ecclesiastes 9:5, 10)

2 Corinthians 5:6-8 (ESV Strong's) We know that while we are at home in the body we are away from the Lord, 7 for we walk by faith, not by sight. 8 Yes, we are of good courage, and we would rather be away from the body and at home with the Lord.

This Bible writer believes that, when he is away from his body he's home with the Lord. If he believed he ceased to exist when he died, why would he rather be dead? In 2Cor 5:1-5 it explains how we live in an "earthly tent", longing to put on our "heavenly dwelling" and in context with verses 6-8, it is speaking of our body. We are not just a body with a "life force". The real us, the spirit person, lives in the "earthly tent" called a body.

Hell as an everlasting fiery destination for the wicked is all twisted out of shape by the churches.

Revelation 20:10 (ESV Strong's) and the devil who had deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur where the beast and the false prophet were, and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

Revelation 20:14-15 (ESV Strong's) Then Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire. 15 And if anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.

The "lake of fire" that was prepared for satan and his demons is a place of torment, forever and ever. If one ceases to exist, where is the torment? Any human, not found in the book of life will be thrown into the "lake of fire" where there is "torment" forever and ever. Any way you look at it, if we are annihilated, where is the "TORMENT" forever and ever? Torment means to be tortured, pain, to be harassed, how can one be tortured if he is not alive? How can one feel pain, if he is not alive?

 

[djhwoodwerks]

There are two separate resurrections spoken about in the Bible. Those chosen for heavenly life will "rise first". (Revelation 20:6) Those who will be their earthly subjects will be raised after the Kingdom's rule is established on earth. (Revelation 21:2-4)

Revelation 21:2-4 does not speak of a resurrection.

Yes, there are two resurrections, first the righteous will be resurrected, then after the thousand years, the unrighteous will be resurrected.

Rev 20:4-6 the righteous are resurrected, if you notice there is no judgment, they came to life and reigned with Christ. The second resurrection, of the unrighteous in verses 11-15 there is judgment. Verses 12 says that the "dead were judged according to what they had done", it's referring to the spiritually dead, the unrighteous.

Revelation 20:11 (ESV Strong's) 11 Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it.

The throne of judgment!

John 5:28-29 (ESV Strong's) Do not marvel at this, for an hour is coming when all who are in the tombs will hear his voice 29 and come out, those who have done good to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil to the resurrection of judgment.

There's not three resurrections, those with a heavenly hope, those with an earthly hope and then those who are to be judged. If you are a born again child of God and your sins have been forgiven, there is no judgment.

The resurrection of Jesus was believed to be a bodily resurrection to heaven so that somehow Christ returned to the Father in a physical body. That is not what the scriptures teach. Christ was "put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit". (1 Peter 3:18) All of those who will reign with Christ will also be raised in a spirit body in order to be able to dwell in the presence of God.

Luke 24:37-39 (ESV Strong's) 37 But they were startled and frightened and thought they saw a spirit. 38 And he said to them, “Why are you troubled, and why do doubts arise in your hearts? 39 See my hands and my feet, that it is I myself. Touch me, and see. For a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see that I have.”

The Disciples thought they had seen a "spirit" when Jesus appeared, but Jesus said, "it is I myself for a spirit doesn't have flesh and bones like I do" (paraphrasing). If, as you claim that Jesus' body was annihilated and He just manifested a fake body to look like His old one, He would have been a liar, He would have been deceiving them when He said, "it is I myself", because it wasn't.

If it is true that no one is raised in a physical spirit body, that all are raised as a spirit, why deceive the Disciples and appear as flesh and bones? Why not just appear as His true being? He lived with them 40 days after His resurrection, always appearing in the flesh, why the deception?

 

[djhwoodwerks]

Being "NO part of the world"......means no meddling in politics, no supporting of immorality which includes gay marriage, no support for the wars of the nations or condoning of the bloodshed in those conflicts.

1 John 2:15-16 (ESV Strong's) 15 Do not love the world or the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him. 16 For all that is in the world—the desires of the flesh and the desires of the eyes and pride of life—is not from the Father but is from the world.

The above verses are what Jesus meant by "no part of the world".

I can't for one second believe that God does not want His people to control the world. I can't and won't believe that God sent His Son to destroy the works of satan, and then expects His people to just sit back and let the world do what it does and wait for Him to do something about it. What kind of world do you think it would be if all God's people were in positions of authority? If God was ruling the world thru His people? That's what God wanted in the first place, to be the sole authority, but they wanted a human king just like the other nations.

So, there is no way I could see Christendom as even Christianity. It is the modern day counterpart of first century Judaism......contaminated by man-made traditions and the teachings of men.

I totally agree, some religions have turned on God and are seeking approval of "society" with accepting gay marriage and homosexuality. That ought not to be! Not all religions approve of that. I sure don't! I don't believe in murder or stealing, you can take whatever I have, but I will kill to protect my family!

Your religion is based on the "teachings of men", isn't it?

Oh dear...djh the savior of the world doesn't trust Jesus to know his own....?

You don't have a problem with a human saying, "I am the one that Jesus prophesied of", and "Jesus and God completely trusts me, so you should too" and, "I am going to heaven to be your king and priest, but you aren't and you have to accept and believe what I say to have any chance of living on earth"? I do!

I knew exactly what I was signing up for.

2 Timothy 4:3-4 (ESV Strong's) 3 For the time is coming when people will not endure sound teaching, but having itching ears they will accumulate for themselves teachers to suit their own passions, 4 and will turn away from listening to the truth and wander off into myths.

 

[djhwoodwerks]

"Approved association" REQUIRES ACCEPTING whatever your teachers say.

Our teachers teach what Christ taught in the Bible. Yours do not. So your acceptance of what they teach shows you have no interest in the truth...only in being right. Can't we let Jesus decide whether he wants you in heaven or not?

My teachers do not "require" me to accept what they say as truth to associate with them!

Can't we let Jesus decide whether he wants you in heaven or not?

Now that's funny! Your teachers have already decided who gets into heaven or not, haven't they?

I trust the people I listen to, because they tell everyone not to accept their teaching just because they teach it.

Neither do mine. I should know...

*** w86 4/1 p. 31 Questions From Readers ***
Approved association with Jehovah’s Witnesses requires accepting the entire range of the true teachings of the Bible, including those Scriptural beliefs that are unique to Jehovah’s Witnesses.

 

[djhwoodwerks]

We are preachers as everyone knows and we follow the Bible's teaching in all things

I know what I teach my own students.

So witnesses are preachers AND teachers?

What does the Bible really teach?

1 Corinthians 12:28-29 (ESV Strong's) 28 And God has appointed in the church first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then miracles, then gifts of healing, helping, administrating, and various kinds of tongues. 29 Are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all teachers? Do all work miracles?

James 3:1 (ESV Strong's) 1 Not many of you should become teachers, my brothers, for you know that we who teach will be judged with greater strictness.

God has APPOINTED teachers in the church, not everyone is to teach, according to James 3:1!

 

[Deeje]

@djhwoodwerks since there will never be an explanation that will curb this obsession you have with JW's, I will not derail this thread any further....believe whatever you like. It makes no difference to me or my brotherhood what you believe, but just be aware of the ramifications if you are wrong (Matthew 18:6).....let God and his Christ be the judge.

Pointing fingers at us whilst ignoring the pagan basis for your own beliefs is not productive. I am tired of you posting your twisted half truths. How about you point those fingers back at your own with the same level of scrutiny?

For someone who didn't know the difference between the magi and the Jewish shepherds in Matthew ch 2, it is evident that you really have very little in the way of even basic Bible knowledge....so, what else might you be wrong about?
Christmas might just be the tip of the iceberg, ya know.....?

Easter is after that.....will you be celebrating that too? Where will I find "Easter" in the Bible?

But hey....whatever floats your boat.....we all have the same choices and we will all face the same judge. If you are confident in your own beliefs and the fact that 'no one can come to the son without an invitation from the Father' (John 6:44) then I see you wasting time trying to prove us wrong, when time could perhaps be better spent in doing what Jesus commanded......are you out preaching with your brethren djh? (Acts 20:20) Will they be contacting me any time soon with the good news of the Kingdom? (Matthew 24:14) The silence is golden.