idolatry

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I appreciate that correction but I'm making the point that a false teaching can have terrible effects on a human hence the atheist losing faith just like a fire can have terrible results if misused. If you teach Bible truths The atheist May obtain and uphold his faith just like using fire in a good way can have good use. I appreciate it logic and I'll be more careful when using that example so I appreciate it

I don't know enough about your beliefs to agree that what you consider "Bible truths" aren't harmful.

 

[Faithofchristian]

Idolizing the Bible.

That's absolutely positively right and as a Christian I am proud of it.

 

[Marcion]

we had two different views of what idolatry is then. mines is much different to yours. if I agree with your definition then your right but my definition is different it's based on scripture which is idolatry to you lol but I respect your reasoning forsure.

At least you let your idol speak then, even it is only through your own interpretations.

 

[Neb]

I view going to church to listen to sermons from one or two paid ministers as idolatrous and not just the paid ones. That minister is required to pretend to be more spiritual, and the people tend to think that listening to sermons is a spiritual practice when it is barely so if at all. I also consider worship leaders to be idols, because people consider them to be spiritual leaders.

So, the question again is: "What forms of Idolatry can Christians perform without even noticing???" I have to agree with you that some Christian leaders are control freaks especially when it comes to tithings which is against what the bible is saying about asking tithes to the Gentiles. A lot of Christians don't even notice that they are actually idolizing their leaders when they give tithes and that's because they don't read the bible about tithings.

 

[RabbiO]

I view going to church to listen to sermons from one or two paid ministers as idolatrous and not just the paid ones. That minister is required to pretend to be more spiritual, and the people tend to think that listening to sermons is a spiritual practice when it is barely so if at all. I also consider worship leaders to be idols, because people consider them to be spiritual leaders.

I was uncertain whether your remarks were directed solely toward Christians or whether you were speaking in more general terms about other religions as well.

The people who I serve do not come to shul to listen to sermons. They come to pray together as a קהילה קדושה, a holy community. Sometimes they get a sermon, sometimes they don't. Some see a sermon as a bonus, others as a burden, but I have yet to run into someone who thinks that listening to a sermon is a spiritual practice. Not even my wife.

I obviously can't speak for every rabbi in the world, let alone speak for those who serve in similar capacities in other faith traditions. In large part I can only speak with assurance for myself, but anecdotally, in speaking with colleagues across the denominational spectrum, I have not yet met a rabbi who pretended to be, nor felt required to pretend to be more spiritual than the members of his or her congregation. In my case, the people I serve have known me since long before I entered the rabbinate and they know me too well to allow me to pretend to be more spiritual than I am.

As for worship leaders being idols because people consider them to be spiritual leaders, to fully respond to that I would need to understand exactly what you mean by "spiritual leaders". As you may know, you don't need to be a rabbi or cantor to lead Jewish worship services. There are many small congregations that have no clergy and the membership takes turns in leading services.

 

[Brickjectivity]

I was uncertain whether your remarks were directed solely toward Christians or whether you were speaking in more general terms about other religions as well.

The people who I serve do not come to shul to listen to sermons. They come to pray together as a קהילה קדושה, a holy community. Sometimes they get a sermon, sometimes they don't. Some see a sermon as a bonus, others as a burden, but I have yet to run into someone who thinks that listening to a sermon is a spiritual practice. Not even my wife.

I obviously can't speak for every rabbi in the world, let alone speak for those who serve in similar capacities in other faith traditions. In large part I can only speak with assurance for myself, but anecdotally, in speaking with colleagues across the denominational spectrum, I have not yet met a rabbi who pretended to be, nor felt required to pretend to be, the members of his or her congregation. In my case, the people I serve have known since long before I entered the rabbinate and they know me to well to allow to pretend to more spiritual than I am.

As for worship leaders being idols because people consider them to be spiritual leaders, to fully respond to that I would need to understand exactly what you mean by "spiritual leaders". As you may know, you don't need to be a rabbi or cantor to lead Jewish worship services. There are many small congregations that have no clergy and the membership takes turns in leading services.

I am unfamiliar with synagogues (or shuls?), except for one or two that I visited many years ago. A messianic acquaintance once took me to a Conservative synagogue on a shabbat night for a surprise visit. I was about 16 years old. They let me borrow a kipa. The ice cream was fantastic. Also I heard the sound of the old language. It was all very alien to me but not distasteful. It was interesting.

If I go to church where there is a pastor that person is typically invested with the moral leadership, with teaching, with leadership of services, likely the running of the facilities, and very often with telling the congregation what things the lord has put on his or her heart. That is a lot both to expect of someone and to allow them to do. In other words they are invested with a portion of the moral conscience of the congregation, control over lives and they must maintain their spiritual appearance and silver speaking ability or risk losing money. This position also does not require much personal giving, merely speaking ability. Anyone can become a pastor if they have the gift of gab and the ability to learn. They need not be mature, have a track record or be solvent. They are frequently ex criminals. Often they are young and have small children and are recruited from outside of the congregation. Its not a good thing if you ask me and leads to idolatry automatically.

 

[LiveByFaithNotSight]

I don't know enough about your beliefs to agree that what you consider "Bible truths" aren't harmful.

good point

 

[Viviane LaFrance]

Is Using Scripture to Back up your beliefs idolatry? my definition of idolatry is

IDOLATRY An idol is an image, a representation of anything, or a symbol that is an object of passionate devotion, whether material or imagined. Generally speaking, idolatry is the veneration, love, worship, or adoration of an idol. It is usually practiced toward a real or supposed higher power, whether such power is believed to have animate existence (as a human, an animal, or an organization) or is inanimate (as a force or lifeless object of nature). Idolatry generally involves some form, ceremony, or ritual.The Hebrew terms used to refer to idols often highlighted the origin and inherent worthlessness of idols, or they were derogatory terms of contempt. Among these are words rendered “carved or graven image” (literally, something carved out); “molten statue, image, or idol” (literally, something cast or poured out); “horrible idol”; “vain idol” (literally, vanity); and “dungy idol.” “Idol” is the usual rendering of the Greek word eiʹdo·lon

An idol is something you place before god or hold as a god which isn't a god but something manufactured by people. Like Trump, Conservatism, Race and whole host of things Christians love to put their faith in.

 

[LiveByFaithNotSight]

An idol is something you place before god or hold as a god which isn't a god but something manufactured by people. Like Trump, Conservatism, Race and whole host of things Christians love to put their faith in.

not this Christian lol

 

[`mud]

An idol is just an imagined being beyond one's mindset.

 

[PuerAzaelis]

The idol of power has such a hold on some human minds that they prefer a God who is a mixture of good and evil, provided that he is powerful, to a God of love who governs only by the intrinsic authority of the Divine — by truth, beauty and goodness — i.e. they prefer a God who is actually almighty to the crucified God.

 

[Viviane LaFrance]

not this Christian lol

But many Christians do, they throw out the teachings of Jesus and instead follow the teachings of Trump which are in opposition to Jesus.

 

[LiveByFaithNotSight]

But many Christians do, they throw out the teachings of Jesus and instead follow the teachings of Trump which are in opposition to Jesus.

I certainly understand. did you know Jesus was Neutral on politics in his day?

 

[Viviane LaFrance]

I certainly understand. did you know Jesus was Neutral on politics in his day?

No he wasn't. He was anti-Roman Empire. Many of his parables are about the evils of the Roman Empire.

 

[Milton Platt]

Not really....the Bible explains itself, so you would have to look at context. An easy example: if I say “Earth”, what would you think of? The planet, right? And many times in the Scriptures, it means just that, the planet. Now read Genesis 11:1. Is it the planet spoken of here, or is it the people on it?

So earth can be symbolic of people.

Context is very important!

Lets test this on more difficult Biblical themes and see how it works there. What is the context that makes slavery and genocide moral?

 

[LiveByFaithNotSight]

No he wasn't. He was anti-Roman Empire. Many of his parables are about the evils of the Roman Empire.

John 6:15: “Jesus, knowing they [the Jews] were about to come and seize him to make him king, withdrew again into the mountain all alone.” Later, he told the Roman governor: “My kingdom is no part of this world. If my kingdom were part of this world, my attendants would have fought that I should not be delivered up to the Jews. But, as it is, my kingdom is not from this source.”—John 18:36.

 

[LiveByFaithNotSight]

No he wasn't. He was anti-Roman Empire. Many of his parables are about the evils of the Roman Empire.

speaking out against a wick system I'm place doesn't make you political. the scriptures I used show his Neutrality to the political power at his time.

 

[PuerAzaelis]

No he wasn't. He was anti-Roman Empire. Many of his parables are about the evils of the Roman Empire.

Can you give an example? I have no agenda in asking this I'm genuinely curious.

 

[Viviane LaFrance]

Can you give an example? I have no agenda in asking this I'm genuinely curious.

I'll compile some material for you. I have to rifle through some of my books but I'll get you those examples. Give me a reminder if I take to long.

 

[BSM1]

Not really....the Bible explains itself, so you would have to look at context. An easy example: if I say “Earth”, what would you think of? The planet, right? And many times in the Scriptures, it means just that, the planet. Now read Genesis 11:1. Is it the planet spoken of here, or is it the people on it?

So earth can be symbolic of people.

Context is very important!

Context is Everything unfortunately no matter how intelligent a person my be doesn't excuse laziness when looking for proper context

So you're saying, in effect, the Bible has to taken out or in context which, of course, leads to personal and selective interpretation.