If abortion were illegal

[robtex]

Roe V Wade in the United States is in danger of being reversed. I have read alot of debates on abortion that say weather it is a good or bad idea. However I have not read any propositions on implimenting an abortion ban. What I would like to do is throw-out a debate on what would be permissable and why if abortion were banned. Mainly to see the dept and weight of this decsion should the case of Roe V Wade be reversed. Or simply put, an answer to "now what?"

Here are some stats to chew on for the debate. If you have more throw them in but I think this should help get things started:

From womanissues.com
# of abortions a year 1.3 million approximatly
http://womensissues.about.com/cs/abortionstats/a/aaabortionstats.htm

national right to life site
1.29 million in 2002
just under 46 million since roe v wade
http://www.nrlc.org/abortion/facts/abortionstats.html

1.25 million according to mmcl (minnosota citizens concerned for life)
http://www.mccl.org/abortion_statistics.htm


According to about.com 532 thousand childern were in foster homes in 2002
http://adoption.about.com/od/statistics/f/fc2005.htm

in 2001 according to the national adoption clearing house 127 thousand kids were adopted between 2000 and 2001
http://naic.acf.hhs.gov/pubs/s_adopted/index.cfm

So obviously adoption on a volunteer basis is not a reasonable answer given the numbers. So say Roe V Wade is reversed and abortion is completely banned. what now?

 

[Sunstone]

What! A thread on something besides Iraq!! What an idea!!!

If Roe v. Wade were reversed, the decision to legalize/outlaw abortion would be returned to the individual states, wouldn't it? If that were the case, I think some states would move to entirely ban it, some would move to keep it as it is now, and many would move to some compromise in between those extremes.

But for the sake of argument, let's assume that all the states entirely banned abortion. What then? Well, one thing that would happen is that richer people would fly their daughters to Europe or Canada for abortions, while poorer people would be stuck with back alley abortionists or carrying the child to term.

Another thing that might happen is the number of kids in foster care would soar.

 

[Feathers in Hair]

What! A thread on something besides Iraq!!

*suspicious look* :sarcastic

Is that allowed?

 

[robtex]

Sunstone I was looking for at what laws would need to be in place to curb illegal abortions in the USA.

For instance,

1) mandatory steralization for repeat child bearers

2) lottery-type mandatory adoptions?

3) Crimminal charges for persistant unwanted child bearing?

4) Civil fines for unwanted child bearing ?

5) state/gov sponsered "mass foster homes"?

6) Parents of unwanted children forced to keep those children?"

What would be a system that could work to accomodate the 1.25 + million abortions annunally ?

 

[Feathers in Hair]

I'll go with the people who're wanting abortion to be illegal should be willing the children with safe, stable, loving homes. (Mind you, as soon as I'm old and stable enough, I hope to provide a home, myself.)

 

[Steve]

Well, one thing that would happen is that richer people would fly their daughters to Europe or Canada for abortions, while poorer people would be stuck with back alley abortionists or carrying the child to term.

Does anyone actually care that whether its in a hospital overseas or in a back alley, a human life is being murdered because in most cases its inconvenient to let it live?

 

[robtex]

Feathers, If abortion becomes illegal and things stay as are, in the USA 1.25 million unwanted children will be born annually. To address the problem there are two things to work on:

1) bringing down unwanted birth numbers

2) Impose legal sanctions for those who have unwanted births.

Presented with that reality what do you or anyone else propose is a starting legal paradigm for "births after roe v wade is reversed?"

Steve, same question to you. Say it is illegal in our country or yours. What is a system that would work to make abortion restictions laws workable on paper?

 

[Feathers in Hair]

Unfortunately, my mind is not equipped to handle the second option. If it became illegal, I would prefer to focus on the first option, by bringing down unwanted birth numbers. I would think that this might be accomplished by better sex education and free contraceptives to those that need them. However, if abortion became illegal, I imagine contraceptives might also become so.

Also, for those people that do get pregnant, increase funding for childcare and health programs. This might not bring down the number of unwanted children, but it would help to make them more wanted than they would be, otherwise.

 

[Aqualung]

Roe vs Wade isn't going to be overturned any time soon.

 

[Sunstone]

I can see the problem, Rob, but I don't have any solutions to it. At least, no solutions that are politically acceptable.

 

[almifkhar]

i can honestly say i don't have a clue as to how they would pull it off. i just hope that they would come up with some kind of plain before the system gets way overwellmed with unwanted and abused children.

 

[jonny]

*suspicious look* :sarcastic

Is that allowed?

I've reported this. Hopefully you will get it taken care of. :149:

 

[jonny]

Feathers, If abortion becomes illegal and things stay as are, in the USA 1.25 million unwanted children will be born annually.

You're assuming that people won't become more careful when they can't use abortion as birth control.

 

[Steve]

Feathers, If abortion becomes illegal and things stay as are, in the USA 1.25 million unwanted children will be born annually. To address the problem there are two things to work on:

1) bringing down unwanted birth numbers

2) Impose legal sanctions for those who have unwanted births.

Presented with that reality what do you or anyone else propose is a starting legal paradigm for "births after roe v wade is reversed?"

Steve, same question to you. Say it is illegal in our country or yours. What is a system that would work to make abortion restictions laws workable on paper?

Its a tough question.
Abortion is a bad solution(if you could call it a solution) to a problem that is now so much apart of our culture that most dont even regard it as a problem. The problem is how we see Sex, so much of what we see and hear tells us that sex is just somthing to do for fun and it has no consequences.
Our culture has an unrealistic concept of Sex. In regards to making policy its hard because you cant say "you must respect Sex and consider its consequences". You cant make sex only legal in marriage etc.

Abortion should be shown for what it is though, people should know the facts. I recently heard a radio interview in which a nurse described what she has experienced. Its so heartless. Can be downloaded here if anyones intersted - http://www.ttwministries.com/media/Jill%20Stanek.mp3

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

Why not draft the unwanted into the army.
Start a few more wars.
Problem solved.

Terry_______________________-
Blessed are those who bring peace, they shall be children of God

 

[Pah]

Unfortunately, my mind is not equipped to handle the second option. If it became illegal, I would prefer to focus on the first option, by bringing down unwanted birth numbers. I would think that this might be accomplished by better sex education and free contraceptives to those that need them. However, if abortion became illegal, I imagine contraceptives might also become so.

Also, for those people that do get pregnant, increase funding for childcare and health programs. This might not bring down the number of unwanted children, but it would help to make them more wanted than they would be, otherwise.

Those that are known to politically oppose abortion are the conservatives that also don't support social benefits. There will be no increase in funding.

Your concern about contraception being attacked is more likely then you think. A womans' right to her body were built in law from the recognition that both married and single woman have a right to access contraception. I think if the former falls it will because the whole legal foundation of "privacy" will be overturned. Roe v Wade is built on two such Supreme Court landmark decisions. The complete legal concept is in jeapody.

 

[robtex]

I can see the problem, Rob, but I don't have any solutions to it. At least, no solutions that are politically acceptable.

That is what I was hoping to learn on this thread. What are the options and what are the solutions should abortion be outlawed? At this point in the thread not a single one has been provided. I think when making a political proposition of abolition or non-abolition that both senerios should be played out to show the feasliblity of such. If no reasonable system can be implimented for one or the other the one without the implimentable system should be dismissed.

Abortion has a system in place that works to solve the birth rate problem. The question that hasn't been explored on here and rarely elsewhere, from what I have seen is how a country where abortion is prohibited will work. So the question remains, should abortion be illegal what are the laws that should be passed to control the birth-rate explosion that will follow?

 

[robtex]

Why not draft the unwanted into the army.
Start a few more wars.
Problem solved.

are you being serious?

 

[michel]

are you being serious?

I think Terry is pulling your leg........there again, perhaps I ought to let him answer your point.

Someone said in this thread (I forget who) that if abortions were illegal, people would have to ensure that they found an alternative to having unwanted babies.

The thought struck me that barrier contraception is 'the method' (appart from abstinence) of not only being 95% safe (I don't Know the figure), but is the only way to prevent STD's; would it therefore not be a good idea to make abortions illegal, in the belief that people would use a condom ?

(I realize this sounds good in theory, but in practice..............)

 

[robtex]

You're assuming that people won't become more careful when they can't use abortion as birth control.

No assumption needed. At 1.25 million plus a year even if unprotected sex dropped by 50 % the number is too high. At 75 % too high. A reality check by crunching the numbers shows we will have an influx of unwanted babies. So the task becomes what plans and laws to impliment to address this.

Your reaction however seems to be typical of the anti-abortion camp. That the problem will solve itself once the "evil" is stopped. To me that is a non-solution. It is a simple question. Given the notion we will have an iflux of unwanted births as evidenced by the "law of large numbers" what changes in laws will needed to be implimented to deal with this change. To ban abortion without such a system in place is socially irresponsible.

So back to you Jonny. What laws would need to be established to deal with the influx babies and or curb them?