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If Adam had not sinned.

U

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
Thief said:
My copy reports....Chapter Two...verse two...
"And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made....."
Chapter Two continues to tell the story of the garden event.
It is a story of manipulation...not creation.
It has all the earmarks of a science experiment.
In all fairness there is a recent rewrite....
That copy strips the name of Moses and the title Genesis from the first page.
It also declares the Chapter Two version (of that rewrite) to be a retelling of Chapter One. It's a creationist's bible....written to suit that discussion.
Click to expand...

Yes, God ended his creative works with day six.
On day seven God rested from his creative works.
That does not mean God is not working.
Just not working from his creative works.
Jesus taught God still works. [John 5v17]
They do spiritual works. [John 14v10 B]

Yes, starting at 2v4 is not creation after day seven, but concentrates on day six and man's fall into sin. So, it is Not a retelling but more info about day six is given.
 
A

anthony55

Member
I have read the previous comments of others, but this earth or world, was not created for Adam, but Adam and this world were created for Christ and His redemptive purpose of salvation.

Col 1:

16For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

17And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.

18And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.

All things in the beginning were created for Him as the Head of the body, the church.

It was for the Eternal Purpose of Christ that Adam sinned. It was no mistake, no deviation from God's Purpose of why this earth was made, all was according to His counsel.

Eph 1:


11In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things [ to include Adam's sin] after the counsel of his own will:

12That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ.
 
Thief

Thief

Rogue Theologian
URAVIP2ME said:
Yes, God ended his creative works with day six.
On day seven God rested from his creative works.
That does not mean God is not working.
Just not working from his creative works.
Jesus taught God still works. [John 5v17]
They do spiritual works. [John 14v10 B]

Yes, starting at 2v4 is not creation after day seven, but concentrates on day six and man's fall into sin. So, it is Not a retelling but more info about day six is given.
Click to expand...

First you concede that the works of God ended on Day Six.....
Then retract.

Then you say Chapter Two is not a retelling of Chapter One, but then state it is more info about Chapter One.
(conflict in the same sentence)

You will have to clarify your own thoughts on this.

I still say....
Chapter One displays Man as a species.

Chapter Two is a story of manipulation .....not creation.

Adam is a chosen son of God.
 
U

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
Thief said:
First you concede that the works of God ended on Day Six.....
Then retract.
Then you say Chapter Two is not a retelling of Chapter One, but then state it is more info about Chapter One.
(conflict in the same sentence)
You will have to clarify your own thoughts on this.
I still say....
Chapter One displays Man as a species.
Chapter Two is a story of manipulation .....not creation.
Adam is a chosen son of God.
Click to expand...

Agree [Luke 3v38] Adam is son of God.

Please note I stressed God's "Creative" works ended on day six.
God ceased work from further 'creation' work after day six.

Genesis 1v1 to Genesis 2v4 describes heaven and earth and all in them
Genesis 2v5 to 4v26 the forming of man was in day six and so was man's downfall into sin. Gen 2v5 picks up or starts where 1v31 stops the sixth day.
Gen 5 vs1,2 saying 'in the day' that God created them was the sixth day.
 
A

anthony55

Member
Matt 25:34



Matt 25:

34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

This Kingdom was prepared for these blessed ones before Adam was created, for they were to inherit it by virtue of their election in Christ, having been made joint heirs with Him, for Christ, before the creation of the worlds [ages] was the rightful Heir of all things Heb 1:

2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

Eph 1:

4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

This was in Eternity Past, before He created us in Adam. This means that the world, the universe, was founded for Mans existence to fulfill God's Eternal Purpose in Christ Jesus our Lord Eph 3:

11 according to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord:

For you see, Adam was created subservient to God's Eternal Purpose in Christ, whereas man's religion is building upon the foundation that the Eternal Purpose of Christ was subservient to and a back up plan to God's purpose for Adam. Yet we never read in scripture about God having a Eternal Purpose in Adam ?? If God's Eternal Purpose was in Christ Jesus, how could Adam's creation had been God's Purpose before Christ ? This is just man centered thinking in spite of what scripture says about Christ.
 
U

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
anthony55 said:
Matt 25:34
Matt 25:
34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
This Kingdom was prepared for these blessed ones before Adam was created, for they were to inherit it by virtue of their election in Christ, having been made joint heirs with Him, for Christ, before the creation of the worlds [ages] was the rightful Heir of all things Heb 1:
2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
Eph 1:
4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
This was in Eternity Past, before He created us in Adam. This means that the world, the universe, was founded for Mans existence to fulfill God's Eternal Purpose in Christ Jesus our Lord Eph 3:
11 according to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord:
For you see, Adam was created subservient to God's Eternal Purpose in Christ, whereas man's religion is building upon the foundation that the Eternal Purpose of Christ was subservient to and a back up plan to God's purpose for Adam. Yet we never read in scripture about God having a Eternal Purpose in Adam ?? If God's Eternal Purpose was in Christ Jesus, how could Adam's creation had been God's Purpose before Christ ? This is just man centered thinking in spite of what scripture says about Christ.
Click to expand...

If we never read about God not having an eternal purpose for Adam then why does Gen 1v28 say the purpose for mankind was to enjoy life on earth?
As long as Adam was obedient he would enjoy endless life on earth.
Disobey and die.

The kingdom was prepared at the Bible's first prophecy at Genesis 3v15.
The foundation of the 'world of mankind' which starts with righteous Abel.
NOT the foundation of planet earth.

The 'sheep' of Matthew 25v32 are NOT the 'brothers' of Matthew 25v40.
 
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anthony55

Member
URAVIP2ME said:
If we never read about God not having an eternal purpose for Adam then why does Gen 1v28 say the purpose for mankind was to enjoy life on earth?
As long as Adam was obedient he would enjoy endless life on earth.
Disobey and die.

The kingdom was prepared at the Bible's first prophecy at Genesis 3v15.
The foundation of the 'world of mankind' which starts with righteous Abel.
NOT the foundation of planet earth.

The 'sheep' of Matthew 25v32 are NOT the 'brothers' of Matthew 25v40.
Click to expand...

The Kingdom was prepared from the foundation. from is the word apo and its primary meaning is separation from. Also of origin of cause.

The foundation in my opinion in this context is the laid foundation of the uninhabited world. Like PS 102:5

Of old hast thou laid the foundation of the earth: and the heavens are the work of thy hands.

Then you can check other scriptures with the same wording.

Matt 25:34

34Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

Matt 13:35;Lk 11:50;Heb 4:3; Rev 13:8 & 17:8

The only reference that I would say is definitely after creation is Lk 11:50, where we know its referring to Abel's blood there.

All the others can be before the world began. The Sheep of whom Jesus is speaking, were Chosen in Him, before the foundation as per Eph 1:4

4According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

So I believe thats when the Kingdom was prepared for them, before the foundation of the world, for certainly at that time they were appointed to inherit the Kingdom.

For they were also Loved by the Father before the world began according to Jn 17:23-24

23I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.

24Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world.
 
Thief

Thief

Rogue Theologian
URAVIP2ME said:
Agree [Luke 3v38] Adam is son of God.

Please note I stressed God's "Creative" works ended on day six.
God ceased work from further 'creation' work after day six.

(I've been saying this since I got here...two years ago.)

Genesis 1v1 to Genesis 2v4 describes heaven and earth and all in them
Genesis 2v5 to 4v26 the forming of man was in day six and so was man's downfall into sin. Gen 2v5 picks up or starts where 1v31 stops the sixth day.
Gen 5 vs1,2 saying 'in the day' that God created them was the sixth day.
Click to expand...

However....Chapter Two is not a retelling of Chapter One.
Adam was not the first man.
 
A

Adonis65

Active Member
Protoman said:
If Adam had not sinned, would he eventually have gone to heaven?
Click to expand...

Adam & Eve had to eat some of the fruit of the tree of knowledge, or they'd have just stayed in the Garden of Eden forever, in innocense, not knowing anything. They both went to heaven because they lived lives of faith & repentance. They feared God & kept His commandments to the end of their mortal existences.
 
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A

anthony55

Member
If God chose some in Christ before BEFORE the foundation, in order that they shall Holy and Without blame before Him as stated here Eph 1:4

4According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

Then this proves that God did not create Adam for that purpose.
 
A

Adonis65

Active Member
anthony55 said:
If God chose some in Christ before BEFORE the foundation, in order that they shall Holy and Without blame before Him as stated here Eph 1:4

4According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

Then this proves that God did not create Adam for that purpose.
Click to expand...

You just described what happens after living a life of thoughtful repentance. Well done, anthony! ;)
 
Last edited:
McBell

McBell

Unbound
Adonis65 said:
No I didn't. I simply disqualified anthony's ignorant conclusion, and completed his thought with the proper conclusion. ;)
Click to expand...
[sarcasm]
​
Oh, so sorry.
Looked to me like you were trying to divert from actually answering the question by piling on a bunch of bull ****.

My apologies.
[/sarcasm]
​
 
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Adonis65

Active Member
Mestemia said:
[sarcasm]​




Oh, so sorry.
Looked to me like you were trying to divert from actually answering the question by piling on a bunch of bull ****.

My apologies.
[/sarcasm]​
Click to expand...

It was an incomplete assessment. I just filled in the blanks.

Apology accepted.
 
Cordoba

Cordoba

Well-Known Member
Ah, but God's plan was for Adam to sin ...

He is a Forgiving God, and He accepts the repentance of those who repent without intercession
 
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