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If Adam had not sinned.

Thief

Thief

Rogue Theologian
waitasec said:
i'm curious as to how YOUR sense of imagination has anything to do with me? are you aware that you are proselytizing? it is against forum rules.
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Can't hold ground...and then then call the referee?

I have no faith to offer.
I have no dogma to insist upon.

I prefer to say as it is, and abide accordingly.
 
Nabeel Akhalwaya Motala

Nabeel Akhalwaya Motala

Member
Although it is said that Eden is placed upon the earth, it says in the Quran that God told Adam and Eve to go down to earth after they ate from what was forbidden to them. So we don't know whether it is on earth or in heaven. Also this question is not valid cause everything happens through the will of God. God knew that they would go against Him. He knew they would sin because He prophesied it long before they were even created.
 
Thief

Thief

Rogue Theologian
Nabeel Akhalwaya Motala said:
Although it is said that Eden is placed upon the earth, it says in the Quran that God told Adam and Eve to go down to earth after they ate from what was forbidden to them. So we don't know whether it is on earth or in heaven. Also this question is not valid cause everything happens through the will of God. God knew that they would go against Him. He knew they would sin because He prophesied it long before they were even created.
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400+ postings....you come late to the discussion....
and you want to continue using a different book?

Okay...let's see what happens.

Do you think, Adam and Eve are the first two of mankind?
Or is Adam a chosen son of God, and Eve is a clone?

If The Garden is not of this earth.....then a bodily existence....'somewhere else'....is possible.
Do you really think the Garden is not of this world?

And I would agree, only, that God would have Man accept the knowledge of good and evil.
But I would disagree That God would lead Man to sin and then call it 'sin'.

And do you really think a piece of fruit instills knowledge when you eat of it?

Do you believe your scriptures literally ...word for word?
Do you not suspect, some portions are metaphors?
 
Nabeel Akhalwaya Motala

Nabeel Akhalwaya Motala

Member
1. “And God said: ‘O Mankind! Be dutiful to your Lord, Who created you from a single person (Adam) and from Him (Adam) He created his wife (Eve), and from them both He created many men and women.’” (Quran 4:1)

2. God said to Adam after Adam ate from what was forbidden to him:

“Get you down (upon the earth), all of you together, from Paradise, some of you are an enemy to some others. Then, if there comes to you guidance from Me, whoever follows My Guidance shall neither go astray, nor fall into distress and misery.” (Quran 20:123)

So being Muslim, I believe that Eden is in Paradise.

3. God doesn't lead you into sin. You lead yourself into sin. It's just that God knows what sins you will accumulate in your lifetime because He is All-Knowing.

4. I believe that God is capable of anything, so He could make it that a piece of fruit, or even a piece of a piece of fruit could grant you much, much more than just knowledge. It is easy for Him who just says "BE" and it is.

5. Some parts of the Quran are written very poetically and you can get confused about it's meaning, but what's nice about the Quran is that there are Hadiths which show you the proper meaning of certain things that you are unsure of. And there are also many things repeated in the Quran using a different approach, yet meaning the same thing, so you really get to know what is being said by the Lord.
 
Thief

Thief

Rogue Theologian
Nabeel Akhalwaya Motala said:
1. “And God said: ‘O Mankind! Be dutiful to your Lord, Who created you from a single person (Adam) and from Him (Adam) He created his wife (Eve), and from them both He created many men and women.’” (Quran 4:1)

2. God said to Adam after Adam ate from what was forbidden to him:

“Get you down (upon the earth), all of you together, from Paradise, some of you are an enemy to some others. Then, if there comes to you guidance from Me, whoever follows My Guidance shall neither go astray, nor fall into distress and misery.” (Quran 20:123)

So being Muslim, I believe that Eden is in Paradise.

3. God doesn't lead you into sin. You lead yourself into sin. It's just that God knows what sins you will accumulate in your lifetime because He is All-Knowing.

4. I believe that God is capable of anything, so He could make it that a piece of fruit, or even a piece of a piece of fruit could grant you much, much more than just knowledge. It is easy for Him who just says "BE" and it is.

5. Some parts of the Quran are written very poetically and you can get confused about it's meaning, but what's nice about the Quran is that there are Hadiths which show you the proper meaning of certain things that you are unsure of. And there are also many things repeated in the Quran using a different approach, yet meaning the same thing, so you really get to know what is being said by the Lord.
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I see you're new to this rebuttal routine.

We have the same practice here in the states.
If you are confused about the bible someone else will explain it to you.

Now read my signature.
 
Thief

Thief

Rogue Theologian
Nabeel Akhalwaya Motala said:
The Quran is the truth and so it will remain until the Day of Judgement. You believe what you want, but I tell you the truth. This is from the Lord unchanged. Why would I want someone to explain the bible to me? The followers of the bible are not on the straight path. They believe that Jesus (AS) is God and that he was crucified for their sins! This is totally incorrect, so why would I want someone to make me understand this?
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So you didn't come here to learn?
Then are you here to proselytize?
 
Nabeel Akhalwaya Motala

Nabeel Akhalwaya Motala

Member
If I came here to learn, then someone must have came here to be a teacher right? So if it's ok for that person to be a teacher, then I am also here to be a teacher. I am not here to convert anyone. Firstly the proper word is revert cause when every soul was taken out of Adam (AS) it was Muslim and testified to this fact. So no...I am not here to revert anyone back to the straight path. It is only Allah (SWT) who guides people to the straight path. I only give knowledge about my religion and offer views from an Islamic standpoint. I never came here to learn anything about another religion, but rather to offer my knowledge as I was one who followed many religions before finding the truth in Islam.
 
waitasec

waitasec

Veteran Member
Nabeel Akhalwaya Motala said:
If I came here to learn, then someone must have came here to be a teacher right? So if it's ok for that person to be a teacher, then I am also here to be a teacher. I am not here to convert anyone. Firstly the proper word is revert cause when every soul was taken out of Adam (AS) it was Muslim and testified to this fact. So no...I am not here to revert anyone back to the straight path. It is only Allah (SWT) who guides people to the straight path. I only give knowledge about my religion and offer views from an Islamic standpoint. I never came here to learn anything about another religion, but rather to offer my knowledge as I was one who followed many religions before finding the truth in Islam.
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well i think everyone has something to learn...don't you?
 
waitasec

waitasec

Veteran Member
Thief said:
I have no following.
There is nothing to convert to.
I have no dogma for you to recite.
I have no ritual for your hand.
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did i mention a following a dogma or a ritual

:no:


don't like being told how you come across, now do you?
 
Nabeel Akhalwaya Motala

Nabeel Akhalwaya Motala

Member
Yes we all have something to learn, but the believers do not learn from the disbelievers! It is the disbelievers who must learn from the believers. Don't get this twisted.
 
waitasec

waitasec

Veteran Member
Nabeel Akhalwaya Motala said:
Yes we all have something to learn, but the believers do not learn from the disbelievers! It is the disbelievers who must learn from the believers. Don't get this twisted.
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isn't that being a bit arrogant?

are you telling me that disbelievers can't teach anything to the believer, really? like appreciating and looking for facts rather than relying on rhetoric?
 
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