Thief
Rogue Theologian
God created Man as a species...Day Six....
no names, no law, no restrictions....no garden.
Day Seven...God rests...no more will be created.
THEN Chapter Two.
That would make Adam a chosen son of God.
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If Adam had not sinned.
- Thread starter Protoman
- Start date
God created Man as a species...Day Six....
no names, no law, no restrictions....no garden.
Day Seven...God rests...no more will be created.
THEN Chapter Two.
That would make Adam a chosen son of God.
Thief
Rogue Theologian
Exactly....
So telling Adam and Eve they would die would not be a deterrent...
would it?
They did then partake.
waitasec
Veteran Member
why state the obvious then?
Thief
Rogue Theologian
Because some people don't 'get it'.
Raymond Sheen
Member
Not exactly. Genesis Chapter One. The numbers in the brackets correspond to the verse in Chapter 1 of Genesis.
[1] The Hebrew verb consists of two different states. The perfect state indicates an action which is complete, whereas the imperfect state indicates a continuous or incomplete action.
At Genesis 1:1 the word bara, translated as created, is in the perfect state, which means that at this point the creation of the heavens and the Earth were completed. Later, as in verse 16 the Hebrew word asah, translated as made, is used, which is in the imperfect state, indicating continuous action. The heavens and Earth were created in verse 1 and an indeterminate time later they were being prepared for habitation, much the same as a bed is manufactured (complete) and made (continuous) afterwards.
[2] The planet was a water planet, waste and empty, meaning that there was no productive land. Though the sun and moon as part of the heavens were complete, at this point light had not penetrated to the surface of the Earth. Job 38:4, 9 refers to a "swaddling band" around the Earth in the early stages of creation. Likely there was a cosmic dust cloud of vapor and debris which prevented the light from the sun from being visible on the surface of the earth.
The Hebrew word ruach, translated as spirit, indicates any invisible active force. Wind, breath, or mental inclination, for example. The Holy Spirit is Jehovah God's active force. Invisible to man but producing results. Throughout scripture it is often referred to as God's hands or fingers in a metaphorical sense. (Psalm 8:3; 19:1)
[3] Here the Hebrew verb waiyomer (proceeded to say) is in the imperfect state indicating progressive action. This first chapter of Genesis has more than 40 cases of the imperfect state. The creative "days" were a gradual process of making Earth habitable.
The light was a diffused light which gradually grew in intensity. Some translations more clearly indicate the progressive action:
A Distinctive Translation of Genesis by J.W. Watts (1963): "Afterward God proceeded to say, 'Let there be light'; and gradually light came into existence."
Benjamin Wills Newton's translation (1888): "And God proceeded to say [future], Let Light become to be, and Light proceeded to become to be [future]."
The Hebrew word for light, ohr, is used. This distinguishes the light from the source of the light. Later, on the fourth "day" the Hebrew word maohr is used, signifying that the source of the light only becomes visible then through the swaddling band.
[4] Light and darkness is divided between the eastern and western hemispheres as the Earth rotates on its axis.
[5] Here the Hebrew word yohm translated day, indicates the daylight hours, but the term will be applied in the following verses to indicate various lengths of time. The word is used to describe any period of time from a few hours to thousands of years. (Zechariah 14:8 / Proverbs 25:13 / Psalm 90:4 / Isaiah 49:8 / Matthew 10:15)
The terms evening and morning are metaphoric. At this point there are no witnesses on Earth to a literal night and day, but there are witnesses in heaven. (Job 38:4, 7) The evening symbolizes the period of time in which the events unfolding were indiscernible to the angels in heaven. The morning symbolizes the period in which the angels could distinguish what had been accomplished. (Proverbs 4:18)
[6] The word expanse is translated from the Hebrew raqia, which means "spreading out." Since the root word from which raqia comes is raqa, which is sometimes used in a sense of "beating out" some confusion has been caused by the Greek Septuagint translation of raqia as stereoma, which means "firm and solid structure" concluding when the Latin Vulgate used the term firmamentum because, at that time it was thought that there was a metallic dome surrounding the earth with sluice holes from which rain fell.
The International Standard Bible Encyclopaedia states: But this assumption is in reality based more upon the ideas prevalent in Europe during the Dark Ages than upon any actual statements in the O T. - Edited by J. Orr, 1960, Vol. I, p. 314. For example, at Job 36:27-28 the water cycle is described without any reference to the Dark Ages understanding of sluice holes.
[7] In verse 6 and 7 part of the water that covers the Earth is lifted to the heavens to form a water canopy surrounding the planet. This canopy was used to flood the earth during the days of Noah. (2 Peter 3:5-6)
[11] The Biblical kind, from the Hebrew leminoh, Greek genos, and Latin genus, differs from the Evolutionist kind. The Biblical "kind" can be defined as divisions in which cross fertility can occur, a boundary between these kinds is drawn where fertilization ceases. Apple trees, for example, dont produce broccoli, squirrels dont produce horses.
In biology a kind applies to animals and plants which possess one or more distinctive characteristics, meaning the biological term kind may contain several varieties within a Biblical kind.
[14] The light in verse 14 is different from that in verse 3. In verse 3 the Hebrew word ohr is used, meaning the light from the source. Light in a general sense, whereas the light in verse 14 the Hebrew word maohr is used, signifying the source of the light is now visible. See [3]
The sun, moon and stars are set as a sign of the seasons, days and years. A most accurate timepiece. The use of the term sign is often mistaken as a reference to astrology, which is incorrect. See What The Bible Says About Astrology and Does The Bible Condemn Astrology?
[16] The Hebrew waiyaas (proceeded to make), from asah, in verse 16 is different than bara (create) in verses 1, 21 and 27. Asah is the imperfect state indicating progressive action. The luminaries as part of the heavens had already been completed in verse 1, but now they were visible on Earth and prepared for their intended use. Asah can mean make, or appoint (Deuteronomy 15:1), establish (2 Samuel 7:11), form (Jeremiah 18:4), or prepare (Genesis 21:8). Also see [1]
[20] The word soul, from the Hebrew nephesh, means "breather." The soul is in the blood, the life itself, of any breathing creature. At Genesis 9:3-4, for example, the Hebrew word nephesh can be translated as life or soul.
[21] Sea monsters, from the Hebrew tanninim, great reptiles. The Hebrew term remes means to creep or move about; an aimless movement. It covers a variety of creatures and distinguishes these animals from domestic or wild birds, beasts and fish.
[24] Cattle; domestic or tame animal (Hebrew behemah).
[25] There are two creation accounts. The first is a chronological account (Genesis 1:1-2:4) and the second is given according to topical relevance. (Genesis 2:5-4:26) They differ in order and are often wrongly thought to contradict one another.
[26] God refers to his son, Christ Jesus in his heavenly pre-human existence. (Genesis 11:7 / Proverbs 8:30 / John 1:3 / Colossians 1:16) Being made in the likeness, image or semblance of God reflects mankind's potential for being like God, possessing his qualities of wisdom, power, righteousness and love.
[27] Too often it is overlooked by selfish, dominating men that woman too were created in Gods image, and thus deserving respect.
[31] Gods creation is good. There is no sickness, disease or slow progression to death. The small area they reside in is a paradise reflective of the potential, and in fact the purpose of growing throughout the entire planet. It isnt Gods purpose for us to live in sin on Earth and then move on to heaven.
The creative days, each of which may have lasted thousands or even millions of years, and had taken place an indeterminate period of time after the creation was complete in verse one, are not indicative of any speculation regarding the age of the Earth and universe. The Bible simply doesnt say.
Period 1 - Light; a division between night and day (Genesis 1:3-5)
Period 2 - The Expanse; a division between waters above and beneath. (Genesis 1:6-8)
Period 3 - Dry land and vegetation. (Genesis 1:9-13)
Period 4 - Heavenly luminaries become visible from Earth. (Genesis 1:14-19)
Period 5 - Aquatic and flying creatures. (Genesis 1:20-23)
Period 6 - Land animals and man. (Genesis 1:24-31)
Raymond Sheen
Member
It would have been for them. They were not going to die.
waitasec
Veteran Member
obviously god expected them to...
god used death as a means to deter disobedience...yes?
Thief
Rogue Theologian
No....and you would be one that doesn't 'get it'.
Thief
Rogue Theologian
Yes they were.
The tree of life is a separate event, which they did not partake of.
They were mortal, as they acquired the knowledge of good and evil.
The acquisition of knowledge does not take away death.
waitasec
Veteran Member
Raymond Sheen
Member
I can't say how much they feared it because they may have had very little reference to do so. Although it could be argued that they had existed long enough to see animals around them suffer and die.
They were warned against it, no doubt.
Raymond Sheen
Member
I wouldn't say that God expected them to, but that he was aware of the possibility.
Raymond Sheen
Member
The tree of the knowledge of good and bad was a representation of Jehovah God's sovereignty. The knowledge Adam gained was the choice to decide for himself what was good and what was bad, not knowledge in and of itself.
The tree of life was a representation of God's guarantee of everlasting life. Since Adam sinned the privileged of the fruit of that tree was taken from him. Adam couldn't reject the protection and guidance of God and live forever.
A man gives his eldest son a house to live in with the stipulation that the son be a responsible householder. The son rejects the father's advice and decides to do as he wishes, to the possible destruction of the house. The father then must remove the son and give it to someone more responsible unless the son realizes his error.
waitasec
Veteran Member
were does it say they didn't partake of it...? it wasn't forbidden.
it would make more sense if they continually ate from the tree of life they would not die...but since the eternal life line was cut off death is now inevitable
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Thief
Rogue Theologian
Death was inevitable on all accounts...
It's life after death that was denied.
It can be gained....but only by grant.
Heathen Hammer
Nope, you're still wrong
Too bad none of that was ever mentioned beforehand, in Genesis, and all.
waitasec
Veteran Member
where?
8 Now the LORD God had planted a garden in the east, in Eden; and there he put the man he had formed. 9 The LORD God made all kinds of trees grow out of the groundtrees that were pleasing to the eye and good for food. In the middle of the garden were the tree of life and the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.
10 A river watering the garden flowed from Eden; from there it was separated into four headwaters. 11 The name of the first is the Pishon; it winds through the entire land of Havilah, where there is gold. 12 (The gold of that land is good; aromatic resin[d] and onyx are also there.) 13 The name of the second river is the Gihon; it winds through the entire land of Cush.[e] 14 The name of the third river is the Tigris; it runs along the east side of Ashur. And the fourth river is the Euphrates.
15 The LORD God took the man and put him in the Garden of Eden to work it and take care of it. 16 And the LORD God commanded the man, You are free to eat from any tree in the garden; 17 but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat from it you will certainly die.
where? i see no mention that the tree of life was forbidden...
how where they to know there was life after death if they were eating from the tree of everlasting life?
Raymond Sheen
Member
Now that you mention it, at this point in the conversation I would like to remind everyone that it wasn't just eating of the fruit of the tree that was off limits, but they couldn't touch it or the tree itself.
Gensis 3:2-3 - At this the woman said to the serpent: "Of the fruit of the trees of the garden we may eat. But as for [eating] of the fruit of the tree that is in the middle of the garden, God has said, 'You must not eat from it, no, you must not touch it that you do not die.'"
Also, for the sake of clarification I would like to say that the Hebrew mohth tamuth translated "You will positively die" literally means "dying you will die." In other words begin dying at that point. The same is used at Ezekiel 3:18.