joeboonda said:
The thing is from the USA having been established by people who believed in God and the Bible,
Not 100% true. Yes, all of them believed in God, not all of them in the same God, and not all of them in the Bible. Just because the people who established the country believed a certain way, does that mean that it makes us a country that supports only the things they believed in? The founders were all white republican men. Does that mean that all women, democrats, and people of other races don't deserve anything?
I think our country was founded on Godly principals and our laws were founded on the same, our schools too.
That may be true, but nowhere in any of the founding documents does it specify *which* God. You just assume it's your own, because it's in your best interest.
People use the 'separation of church and state' idea, which was nothing more than the idea that the government cannot make you choose a certain denomination or religion. That you could have freedom of religion, not from religion. People have made it into more thatn it was intended.
Wow, you really don't know what that whole "seperation of church and state" thing is do you? Why is it that we assume that since those specific words do not appear, that the principle doesn't exist? There are any number of important legal concepts which do not appear in the Constitution with the exact phrasing people tend to use. For example, nowhere in the Constitution will you find words like "right to privacy" or even "right to a fair trial." Does this mean that no American citizen has a right to privacy or a fair trial? Does this mean that no judge should ever invoke these rights when reaching a decision? Of course not - the absence of these specific words does not mean that there is also an absence of these
ideas.
Similarly, courts have found that the
principle of a "religious liberty" exists behind in the First Amendment, even if those words are not actually there: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof..."
The point of such an amendment is twofold. First, it ensures that religious beliefs - private or organized - are removed from attempted government control. This is the reason why the government cannot tell either you or your church what to believe or to teach. Second, it ensures that the government does not get involved with enforcing, mandating, or promoting particular religious doctrines. This is what happens when the government "establishes" a church - and because doing so created so many problems in Europe, the authors of the Constitution wanted to try and prevent the same from happening here.
This is a nation founded on Christian Principles, the Laws and Courts on the Ten Commandments, etc. and it is part of our heritage to have them in the Court Room IMO.
Yes, in your opinion, but unfortunately only in your opinion. History however disagrees with you.
First of all, the first amendment was specifically designed to prohibit established churches, and at the Constitutional Convention, attempts to write in some sort of nominal support for Christianity always failed. In addition, the people at the time were distinctly "unchurched." The best estimates indicate that only 10% to 15% of the population actually attended church services.
It is true that Ben Franklin proposed that delegates at the Convention open their sessions with morning prayers, and people who oppose the separation of church and state try to make a lot out of this. According to the records, Franklin suggested that "henceforth prayers imploring the assistance of Heaven, and its blessing on our deliberations, be held in this Assembly every morning before we proceed to business." Aside from the fact that such a prayer clearly isn't very Christian in nature, what is usually left unsaid is the fact that his proposal was never accepted. Indeed, delegates didn't even bother voting on it - instead, they voted to adjourn for the day! The proposal was not taken up the next day, and Franklin never bothered to mention it again.
The delegates' refusal to base this nation on Christianity can also be seen in the fact that neither God nor Christianity are mentioned anywhere in the Constitution. In the main part of the Constitution, the only mention of religion is that there should be no "religious tests" for public office.
The position that the United States is a "Christian Nation" is dealt a serious blow by the fact that, as early as 1797, the government specifically said that it is
not a Christian Nation. The occasion was a peace and trade agreement between the United States and Muslim leaders in North Africa. The negotiations were conducted under the authority of George Washington, and the final document, known as the Treaty of Tripoli, was approved of by the Senate under the leadership of John Adams, the second president. This treaty states, without equivocation, that the "...Government of the United States is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion...."
Anyhow, I'll stop now since this is getting off topic, but as a person who values her nations history, it's my duty to correct ignorance.
I would also like to add just one thing:
We are not a Christian nation, we are not an atheist nation, we are not anything but just a nation. And as far as I'm concerned, that should be good enough for everyone.
And also, to reiterate what others have said, the idea that those who do not believe in God (or even in just your God) are amoral is offensive, ignorant, and just plain wrong.
