If "everything is energy" then what does this mean?

[Aupmanyav]

Or, if that is unanswerable, what reasons we have to suppose everything is energy.

Give me a better guess, if you have one.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Any place devoid of massive objects.

What do you mean by "massive objects"? Are you closer to "very large objects" or "objects with mass" (e.g. lone molecules or electrons)?

 

[ak.yonathan]

What do you mean by "massive objects"? Are you closer to "very large objects" or "objects with mass" (e.g. lone molecules or electrons)?

Any object with mass, atoms and electrons included.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Give me a better guess, if you have one.

What about "the universe is too complex for pretty much any statement in the form 'everything is _________' to be true"?

 

[Quintessence]

This is, perhaps, the best (for me!) answer yet. If you would be willing to expand on it here (or via messaging) I would be extremely grateful. I have some familiarity with "occult/magical circles", or at least I hope I have enough better grasp how practitioners understand the nature of the intuitive feel you refer to. I understand, of course, that without such experiences I won't ever really "get" what this means, but I think I will be content if I can merely better understand. Thanks!

In what way would you like me to expand? I'm not as knowledgable about this as some folks are, but I can try to represent some of the diverse perspectives I've encountered and sprinkle in some personal experiences now and again.

A book that comes to mind that goes into this stuff is "Real Energy" by Phaedra and Isaac Bonewitz. It's been a long time since I've read it, but IIRC, it's one of the best overviews of the subject from the occult/magical perspective. Might be one I want to re-visit, actually. But I have too many things to read as it is.

 

[ak.yonathan]

In what way would you like me to expand? I'm not as knowledgable about this as some folks are, but I can try to represent some of the diverse perspectives I've encountered and sprinkle in some personal experiences now and again.

A book that comes to mind that goes into this stuff is "Real Energy" by Phaedra and Isaac Bonewitz. It's been a long time since I've read it, but IIRC, it's one of the best overviews of the subject from the occult/magical perspective. Might be one I want to re-visit, actually. But I have too many things to read as it is.

Could you explain what real energy is? How does it differ from fake energy?

 

[Quintessence]

Could you explain what real energy is? How does it differ from fake energy?

LOL... it's just the title of the book. It's meant to be catchy, not imply there is "fake" energy.

 

[LuisDantas]

I've often heard people say that in some sense or another "everything" (whatever that is) is "energy". This confuses me, to put it bluntly. I often work with "energy" as it is "defined" (exists? described?) in modern physics, and this has not helped me understand the assertion that everything is energy. So if any members believe this and would be willing to describe what this belief means (or if any members are more knowledgeable about what this means than I) I would be grateful for an explanation as to what "everything is energy" means (e.g., what is the nature of this "energy"? why ought we to believe that everything is indeed a form of or made out of this "energy"? etc.). Thanks!

In physics, "energy" is "the capacity of a physical system to perform work" (Source: http://physics.about.com/od/glossary/g/energy.htm )
Despite some common misconceptions, it is an entirely "material" concept that in no way involves or encourages leaps of faith.

In New Age-speak, though, it is something entirely different, only very vaguely defined, and often not too far removed from some form of Deistic, Pantheistic or Panentheistic conception of deity or of his will working through reality.

In short, it is a mystery of faith, sometimes used to try to belittle non-theists or even science itself. It is also often used to try to misrepresent science in order to attempt to present mystifications as "supported" by science.

 

[Aupmanyav]

What about "the universe is too complex for pretty much any statement in the form 'everything is _________' to be true"?

That will be a presumption - like humans will not reach Mars. Let us see what comes up.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

That will be a presumption - like humans will not reach Mars.

Wait - you think that was a presumption, but "everything is energy" isn't?

 

[Aupmanyav]

Like I said earlier, in the beginning we do not find anything existing other than it - that is why 'All things here are Brahman' (Sarvam Khalvidam Brahman) and 'Is one without a second' (Ekameva adviteeyam).

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Like I said earlier, in the beginning we do not find anything existing other than it - that is why 'All things here are Brahman' (Sarvam Khalvidam Brahman) and 'Is one without a second' (Ekameva adviteeyam).

That everything can be traced back to energy no more means that "everything is energy" than the fact that all life can be traced back to blue-green algae means that you and I are blue-green algae.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Blue-green algae also is none other than Brahman, constituted by what constitutes the whole universe. Check through an electron microscope.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Blue-green algae also is none other than Brahman, constituted by what constitutes the whole universe.

Is this your way of saying that we are blue-green algae?

 

[Aupmanyav]

This is my way of saying that what constitutes me also constitutes the Blue-green algae.

Randomly: "The most complex forms are found among the green algae (see Charales and Charophyta), in a lineage that eventually led to the higher land plants. The point where these non-algal plants begin and algae stop is usually taken to be the presence of reproductive organs with protective cell layers, a characteristic not found in the other alga groups." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Algae#Morphology

 

[Twilight Hue]

What I think would be helpful if we offered a definition of energy as it's used in physics and started comparisons from there.

I agree. I tend to think the academic definitions are notably different than the popular lay use of the term.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

I agree. I tend to think the academic definitions are notably different than the popular lay use of the term.

Yeh...like what is...dark energy....zero point energy...vacuum energy....electrical energy...radiation energy....kinetic...gravitational....inertial....for starters?

 

[Twilight Hue]

Yeh...like what is...dark energy....zero point energy...vacuum energy....electrical energy...radiation energy....kinetic...gravitational....inertial....for starters?

Exactly. It seems energy is everywhere including what can be considered as empty space. The form energy takes can be widely varied. I remember for example coming across some amazing reading involving temperatures dealing with hyper hot to cold involving the vast array of properties involving matter in the vaccuum of space.
Seems if made cold enough, atoms become so still it essentally "disappears" until heat is applied to where it can be detected again.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Yeh...like what is...dark energy....zero point energy...vacuum energy....electrical energy...radiation energy....kinetic...gravitational....inertial....for starters?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Main_Page

 

[Ben Dhyan]

Exactly. It seems energy is everywhere including what can be considered as empty space. The form energy takes can be widely varied. I remember for example coming across some amazing reading involving temperatures dealing with hyper hot to cold involving the vast array of properties involving matter in the vaccuum of space.
Seems if made cold enough, atoms become so still it essentally "disappears" until heat is applied to where it can be detected again.

One of my favourites is the workings of inertia....it goes something like this.... When you are standing in the train carriage at the platform and it takes off...you need to hang on else you will fall backwards...why is this? Well it turns out it is from the 'pressure' of the vacuum zpe... Within the atom, virtual electrons and anti-electrons (positrons) are bubbling up in about equal numbers all the time....but the virtual positrons are attracted to the atom's real electrons and form a virtual cloud around them.. So given the body has about 80 trillion cells, each cell is made of numerous molecules, the molecules numerous atoms, and the atoms many electrons...that's a lots of electrons being 'glued' in place by the respective clouds of virtual positrons around each one.. When the train takes off....the elecrons have to break free from this attractive force of the space the body is filling...and thus in the process, the body initially is 'glued' in place....and as the feet connected to the carriage floor moves the body forward (easily breaking free of the zpe pressure), the top half tends to stay glued in the space it is occupying and hence the body falls backwards as the feet moves from under it...

So next time you experience this..remember that it is not gravity that is causing it...but the cosmic space vacuum pressure itself wanting everything to stay where it is... It works exactly the same in the vacuum of space...not the train thingo.. ...but to move an object in space, you have to overcome the zpe pressure 'gluing' it in the space it is filling..