If Evolution Were True

[sandy whitelinger]

This question has nothing to do with evolution or evolutionary theory. The reason, I suspect, for Autodidact regarding you as being less than sincere is probably due to you regurgitating creationist talking points such as this one.

Just so that you are clear on what happened here. I misread the OP initially and asked a question that related to abiogenesis. Someone, I think ATotalStranger commented to the tune of something like, "How many times do I have to keep educating you that evolution and abiogenesis are not the same thing?" Being in a bit of a squirreluos mood I asked to be educated about it. At some point along the line I actually took it seriously and asked to be educated about evolution. Auto decided that the best way to do that was to ask me what I believe and to attack it. I went along for the ride giving her plenty of ammo to do her job. She feels better that she has , in her mind, completely destroyed another creationists point of view. I'm happy for her.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

Just so that you are clear on what happened here. I misread the OP initially and asked a question that related to abiogenesis. Someone, I think ATotalStranger commented to the tune of something like, "How many times do I have to keep educating you that evolution and abiogenesis are not the same thing?" Being in a bit of a squirreluos mood I asked to be educated about it. At some point along the line I actually took it seriously and asked to be educated about evolution. Auto decided that the best way to do that was to ask me what I believe and to attack it. I went along for the ride giving her plenty of ammo to do her job. She feels better that she has , in her mind, completely destroyed another creationists point of view. I'm happy for her.

Well, she did do a great job of completely obliterating the ridiculous creationist arguments. Obviously, your mind is made up, but perhaps she has helped educate other lurkers out there who were misinformed, as you were, but whose minds are open to objective reality. I'm happy for her as well - good job!

 

[themadhair]

Being in a bit of a squirreluos mood I asked to be educated about it. At some point along the line I actually took it seriously and asked to be educated about evolution.

Can you educate someone who doesn’t want to be educated?

Read the wiki page on evolution. I’m sure if you did that and had any questions you might find people more likely to answer them. Asking someone to write a treatise (which is what would be required to properly explain the subject) when it appears such would be a wasted effort isn’t going to get you far.

 

[sandy whitelinger]

Can you educate someone who doesn’t want to be educated?

Nope. You can only orate at them.

Read the wiki page on evolution.

Been there done that. The book by Ken Miller that Fantome suggested presented better arguments than most.

I’m sure if you did that and had any questions you might find people more likely to answer them. Asking someone to write a treatise (which is what would be required to properly explain the subject) when it appears such would be a wasted effort isn’t going to get you far.

Don't get me started on your preconceptions now. I was playing with Auto just because of the same thing.

 

[Bawb]

We need a time machine

 

[sandy whitelinger]

We need a time machine

It would fall into a black hole and never be seen again.

 

[painted wolf]

Ken Miller is a good resource for evolution discussions... the fact that he can approach the issue from the religious point of view is especially helpful.

wa:do

 

[themadhair]

Been there done that. The book by Ken Miller that Fantome suggested presented better arguments than most.

Any questions then?

Don't get me started on your preconceptions now. I was playing with Auto just because of the same thing.

Preconceptions or experiential knowledge?

 

[Autodidact]

Nope. You can only orate at them.

Been there done that. The book by Ken Miller that Fantome suggested presented better arguments than most.

Don't get me started on your preconceptions now. I was playing with Auto just because of the same thing.

but sandy, I didn't proceed on preconceptions. On the contary, I asked you repeatedly what your position was, and clarified repeatedly my understanding of your position, just so I wouldn't make that mistake. The fact that your answers were inconsistent made it impossible to respond to them or figure out what your actual position is, but demonstrated to all that your position, whatever it may be, is incoherent. Apparently you find the idea of being clear and consistent, and responding to what a poster presents as his position as though it was his actual position humorous, for some reason. I do not share your taste in that regard.

 

[The Voice of Reason]

I went along for the ride giving her plenty of ammo to do her job. She feels better that she has , in her mind, completely destroyed another creationists point of view. I'm happy for her.

coupled with

Don't get me started on your preconceptions now. I was playing with Auto just because of the same thing.

As I watched this thread unfold, I thought you might have actually decided that your self inflicted ignorance was no longer your chosen path, but I see that I misconstrued your intent.

I can't say that I'm surprised at your choice, but, it's your life to waste as you see fit.

 

[Sententia]

If Evolution were true we should see less evolved organisms repeat similar evolutions over time...this is not observed in nature.

Hee hee. I was thinking that if creationism and god were true then you wouldnt need faith to believe it.

I think most that argue with evolution just are using RF Forums as cliff notes for studying the theory... Or they bought the whole ID theory - hook, line and sinker...

who knows... Its not an either/or to begin with.

 

[RemnanteK]

Is cancer a form of evolution?

If thousands of genetic mutations are how we got here, why don't we embrace the genetic mutations that happen now?

Like chromosomal mutations, are they just a form of us all evolving?

How many beatifically genetic mutations are happening now to better our future?

I have been running an evolution model in Linux for a few months now, the program looks for altered code and anomalies and encourages them in a virtual environment.
Sad thing is it has yet to find a string of code that is useful of beneficial in propagating itself.
Given the statistics the program is using my probability is:
1/10000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 (10 [to the power] 76) (copy paste isn't liking this.)
That is will find useful code that will propagate, but the chance that the new code with be able to do that same is so many (zeros) I can count them all.

Blast it all. Probability is infinitely problematic.

 

[Dirty Penguin]

Is cancer a form of evolution?

Not sure. An oncologist might be a good start. How about the flu virus?...doesn't it mutate? I've often thought that this might be a good observable model.

I have been running an evolution model in Linux

Oh yes...Linux...the Dirty Penguin doest approveth......: hamster :...(Ubuntu over here..)

 

[Autodidact]

Is cancer a form of evolution?

I don't think so, because it's not a mutation in DNA at birth, but in individual cells that will not result in offspring.

If thousands of genetic mutations are how we got here, why don't we embrace the genetic mutations that happen now?

We do, at least, any that result in fatter turkeys, disease resistant tomatoes and cows that give more milk.

Like chromosomal mutations, are they just a form of us all evolving?

Yes.

How many beatifically genetic mutations are happening now to better our future?

I have been running an evolution model in Linux for a few months now, the program looks for altered code and anomalies and encourages them in a virtual environment.
Sad thing is it has yet to find a string of code that is useful of beneficial in propagating itself.
Given the statistics the program is using my probability is:
1/10000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 (10 [to the power] 76) (copy paste isn't liking this.)
That is will find useful code that will propagate, but the chance that the new code with be able to do that same is so many (zeros) I can count them all.

Blast it all. Probability is infinitely problematic.

I am not sophisticated on the subject, but many scientists have devised computer programs that replicate, mutate and evolve. Would you like me to dig up some links for you?

 

[painted wolf]

Is cancer a form of evolution?

No. Cancer is a mutation of individual cells not an organism itself.

If thousands of genetic mutations are how we got here, why don't we embrace the genetic mutations that happen now?

we do... in fact scientists are researching several human mutations that hold promise for treatments of heart disease, muscle wasting diseases and even AIDS resistance. The most widely embraced human mutation is lactose tolerance.

Like chromosomal mutations, are they just a form of us all evolving?

Depends on what you consider evolving. Most are errors in Meiosis rather than mutations per say.

How many beatifically genetic mutations are happening now to better our future?

Hard to say, we can't exactly track every mutation in the human population over every generation. Some big ones include mutations that confer increased resistance to heart disease and AIDS for a start. Most mutations are very small in effects on the organism.
Here are some examples for you: Examples of Beneficial Mutations in Humans

I have been running an evolution model in Linux for a few months now, the program looks for altered code and anomalies and encourages them in a virtual environment.
Sad thing is it has yet to find a string of code that is useful of beneficial in propagating itself.
Given the statistics the program is using my probability is:
1/10000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 000000000000000000000000000 (10 [to the power] 76) (copy paste isn't liking this.)
That is will find useful code that will propagate, but the chance that the new code with be able to do that same is so many (zeros) I can count them all.

What factors are you using in your model?
Are you using all of them or just some of them?
Mutation, Natural Selection, Genetic Drift, Gene flow, Sexual Selection?

Blast it all. Probability is infinitely problematic.

Doubly so when you don't have all the pieces.

wa:do

 

[sandy whitelinger]

Preconceptions or experiential knowledge?

And in your experiential knowledge is?

 

[RemnanteK]

If thousands of genetic mutations are how we got here, why don't we embrace the genetic mutations that happen now?

I meant like down syndrome, if genetic/chromosomal mutation is a normal form of evolution, why are they looking for a cure.
Maybe it's natures way of weeding out the weak, or creating a new form of life.

And to me there is a HUGE difference between man mad genetics and natural.

 

[Autodidact]

I meant like down syndrome, if genetic/chromosomal mutation is a normal form of evolution, why are they looking for a cure.
Maybe it's natures way of weeding out the weak, or creating a new form of life.

Most mutations are nuetral, and get passed on or not. Some are harmful. They die out, because they tend not to result in survival and reproduction. This is part of evolutionary theory. A few are beneficial--those are the ones that will be passed on, because they will increase the organism's chances of surviving and reproducing.

And to me there is a HUGE difference between man mad genetics and natural.

What is the HUGE difference?

 

[Kilgore Trout]

I meant like down syndrome, if genetic/chromosomal mutation is a normal form of evolution, why are they looking for a cure.
Maybe it's natures way of weeding out the weak, or creating a new form of life.

Evolution doesn't have a consciousness, it doesn't have 'goals', it doesn't have a 'purpose'. This seems to be a fundamental point that people who 'don't believe in evolution' don't get. If you can't get past this anthropomorphized idea about evolution, you will never really understand it, and will continue to wallow in ignorance.

 

[The Voice of Reason]

If you can't get past this anthropomorphized idea about evolution, you will never really understand it, and will continue to wallow in ignorance.

... and happily so, it would appear.