If Evolution Were True

[Valjean]

What on Earth are you talking about? There's nothing hierarchical about evolution. Where'd you get that idea?

 

[themadhair]

What on Earth are you talking about? There's nothing hierarchical about evolution. Where'd you get that idea?

facepalm.jpg
Seriously, facepalm.jpg

Nested hierarchies are ‘groups within groups’. They are a side-effect of common ancestry, and are hierarchical only in the sense that as work higher through the hierarchy you encounter more and more common ancestors.

To illustrate I give a basic example:

We humans share more in common with primates than any other creatures.
We placental mammals share more in common than any other creatures.
We placental mammals & marsupials share more in common than any other creatures.
We mammals share more in common than any other creatures.
We cynodonts share more in common than any other creatures.
We therapsids contain more in common than any other creatures.

See how, as we work up the ancestral hierarchy, we see this ‘groups within groups’? And see how, due to common ancestry, that traits coincide with these same nested hierarchies?

 

[painted wolf]

What on Earth are you talking about? There's nothing hierarchical about evolution. Where'd you get that idea?

Sey... I think you are thinking about the "ladder of progression".

Like themadhair pointed out, nested hierarchies are just the way life forms are arranged on the phylogenetic tree of life.
Humans are apes, which are mammals, which are vertebrates and so on...

It doesn't have to do with superiority so much as how many derived features there are and where they come from.

wa:do

 

[eugenius]

If Evolution were true..........how could this happen?

 

[themadhair]

If Evolution were true..........how could this happen?

Madness in the form of Ken Ham?

 

[The Voice of Reason]

If Evolution were true..........how could this happen?

Well - it didn't. Except in the Creation Museum.

Come to think of it, does anyone know of any other "Museums" that have displays of things that never occurred?

 

[painted wolf]

I've always had a soft spot for the "Museum of Jurassic Technology". A wonderful blend of the weird and real, and the questionably real, and the not so real.

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In scope and feel it's more of a Victorian wonder-cabinet than a traditional museum.

There are quite a few creationist "museums" out there.
The Institute for Creation Research has a museum: Creation Museum
There is also the "Creation Evidence Museum": Creation Evidence Museum Online - General Information

Neither of these two have any carnival rides or theater shows... making them more respectable in a certain way.

wa:do

 

[Beaudreaux]

Well - it didn't. Except in the Creation Museum.

Come to think of it, does anyone know of any other "Museums" that have displays of things that never occurred?

....Holocaust museum?



KIDDING!!!! KIDDING!!!

"Lord I apologize for makin' fun of the Holocaust Museum and be with the starving Pygmies down there in New Guinea. Amen."

 

[Sententia]

....Holocaust museum?



KIDDING!!!! KIDDING!!!

"Lord I apologize for makin' fun of the Holocaust Museum and be with the starving Pygmies down there in New Guinea. Amen."

Heee Heee

YouTube - LTCG Lord I Apologize

 

[roli]

Just as religion has nothing at all to contribute to science, the theory of evolution has nothing at all to say about "creation", so there's plenty of room. Lots of people have no trouble believing evolution itself is the invisible hand of God ever creating new forms of life. Religion and science are not in conflict, except in pockets of ignorance where one or the other of them is not understood. Religion deals with spirit and ethics, science deals with the material world and how it works. There's no room for religion in explaining how the material world works, but there's also no room for science in teaching moral or spiritual lessons.

I think it's better said ,that the science world has no idea the material world is brought about, held by and consistenly functions in the spirutal realm.
Humans are privy to experience and study this but it in no way limits the material world from being sustained by that which is unseen.
Rationale,science, higher thinkers can't get past this because they as physical and material beings see no other entity but what their sences tell them.
Their spirutal sense is disconnected and therefore they can't grasp this truth.

...someday thought!

 

[fantome profane]

I think it's better said ,that the science world has no idea the material world is brought about, held by and consistenly functions in the spirutal realm.
Humans are privy to experience and study this but it in no way limits the material world from being sustained by that which is unseen.
Rationale,science, higher thinkers can't get past this because they as physical and material beings see no other entity but what their sences tell them.
Their spirutal sense is disconnected and therefore they can't grasp this truth.

...someday thought!

But of course there are a great deal of scientists who are also very religious and very spiritual. There is no conflict. It is true that science is limited to the study of physical natural phenomena, but that does not mean that people who study science must limit themselves to only science. There is no reason that someone who studies the physical world cannot also appreciate the spiritual.

And conversely religious people do not need to be afraid that they will somehow endanger their spirituality simply by gaining a greater understanding of science.

 

[RemnanteK]

I believe our hangup is with who is right or wrong.
I know it goes back and forth between believers and non, but belief isn't my religion.

My religion is Happiness, and the joy it might bring another.
My evolution is true, I believe I have evolved from a child into a man.
If I was alone in the wilderness no amount of man made ideals could break the loneliness.
But the relationship I have with my God could shine through me into the world around me.

I don't discuss my views here to prove I'm right, I do it to express how happy I am and how I hope everyone else is just as happy.
If you can be happy as I am without God then I guess you are more human than I.
There are just some things I can't take credit for, and my Happiness is one such gift.

So I think that if the world can make you happy, then you should impart how happy you are, and what is it that makes you happy.
If Evolution makes you happy please share why, I want to know where the happiness is found?
I've tried for many years to be truly happy without God, but I still felt something was missing.
If I have missed something in the works of man please share the light with me and others.

If we are going to discuss something about "If Evolution Were True" then if evolution were true we humans better find a way to make everyone happy or we will self destruct.
If evolution were true then unless you are famous or infamous no one will know you ever existed.
If evolution were true then society is your only guide to happiness, and even then you can't take it to the grave.
If evolution were true we don't deserve this Earth because we are killing it.
If evolution were true I feel sorry for all of us because we are all dust in the wind.

 

[Magic Man]

I think it's better said ,that the science world has no idea the material world is brought about, held by and consistenly functions in the spirutal realm.
Humans are privy to experience and study this but it in no way limits the material world from being sustained by that which is unseen.
Rationale,science, higher thinkers can't get past this because they as physical and material beings see no other entity but what their sences tell them.
Their spirutal sense is disconnected and therefore they can't grasp this truth.

...someday thought!

Actually, science doesn't say that couldn't be the case. It says nothing on that subject. Science's only objective is to explain what we can detect with our five senses. That's it. There's nothing else to it.

 

[Magic Man]

I believe our hangup is with who is right or wrong.

No, our problem when it comes to evolution is that some people let their religious beliefs blind them to facts.

If I was alone in the wilderness no amount of man made ideals could break the loneliness.
But the relationship I have with my God could shine through me into the world around me.

So, you can't just enjoy nature, then? You need God to really enjoy things? That sounds kind of like a drug to me. It's eerily similar to an alcoholic who can only enjoy parties or most of daily life when he or she is drinking. Sorry, but that's jst what it reminds me of.

If you can be happy as I am without God then I guess you are more human than I.

I'm glad you're happy with God. I don't want to take that away from you. However, it's a little irrelevant to this thread.

If Evolution makes you happy please share why, I want to know where the happiness is found?

I guess you could say it makes me happy, but only in that I know that we have the correct explanation for the diversity of life we see. It's not so much about evolution making me happy as it is knowing the truth making me happy.

I've tried for many years to be truly happy without God, but I still felt something was missing.
If I have missed something in the works of man please share the light with me and others.

This is not a dichotomy between the works of man and the works of God. If you believe God created everything, then this is a discussion of how God did that. That's all. It's an explanation of what we see, and it makes no comment whatsoever on the existence of God.

If we are going to discuss something about "If Evolution Were True" then if evolution were true we humans better find a way to make everyone happy or we will self destruct.

Huh?

If evolution were true then unless you are famous or infamous no one will know you ever existed.

Um...that's true regardless of evolution, and it has nothing at all to do with the theory of evolution.

If evolution were true then society is your only guide to happiness, and even then you can't take it to the grave.

Um...no. I'm not even sure where you got this.

If evolution were true we don't deserve this Earth because we are killing it.
If evolution were true I feel sorry for all of us because we are all dust in the wind.

We're all dust in the wind regardless of evolution. What did any of this have to do with evolution? Humans are the way we are. If we're killing Earth, it has nothing to do with evolution.

Let me just explain it this way. Let's say God created the world and gave it the spark of life. That spark was an amino acid that eventually replicated enough to produce a one-celled organism. That organism reproduced and its offspring mutated and reproduced until we got all of the life we see today. That's entirely a possibility according to the theory of evolution, since it makes no claims as to where life came from, just what happened after it started.

Evolution and God can coexist, and they do in the minds of many Christians and other God-believers. So, your assumption that evolution means no God is just plain wrong.

 

[eugenius]

Well - it didn't. Except in the Creation Museum.

Come to think of it, does anyone know of any other "Museums" that have displays of things that never occurred?

Well then how do you explain THIS????

 

[tumbleweed41]

If we are going to discuss something about "If Evolution Were True" then if evolution were true we humans better find a way to make everyone happy or we will self destruct.
If evolution were true then unless you are famous or infamous no one will know you ever existed.
If evolution were true then society is your only guide to happiness, and even then you can't take it to the grave.
If evolution were true we don't deserve this Earth because we are killing it.
If evolution were true I feel sorry for all of us because we are all dust in the wind.

Very bleak and pessimistic outlook.
Who cares about fame or being remembered by those I have never met?
Society has nothing to do with my happiness, I control my own emotions.
Deserve this Earth? Enjoy the Earth and care for it. Evolution has nothing to do with deserving anything.
Yes, to dust we will return, so enjoy life while you have it.

 

[themadhair]

Religion and science are not in conflict, except in pockets of ignorance where one or the other of them is not understood.

I think this is utter tosh. Science, by its very foundation, is a strict methodology of discovery where rigorous demand for evidence and experimental support are absolute – and this is simply not compatible with a religious way of thinking where these demands are not only absent, but often deliberately ignored.

Someone may hold a religious idea that doesn’t contradict current scientific discovery, but that is far cry from claiming they are not in conflict.

I can’t remember who said this quote but I think it hits the nail on the head:

Science provides one way to understand the world, while religion provides millions of ways to misunderstand it.

 

[painted wolf]

If we are going to discuss something about "If Evolution Were True" then if evolution were true we humans better find a way to make everyone happy or we will self destruct.

Not sure what you mean here... regardless of the fact that we do have rather self-destructive behavior. Wars and so on... I'm not seeing evolution not being true stopping that fact of human nature.

If evolution were true then unless you are famous or infamous no one will know you ever existed.

Untrue, you live on in your decendants.... you are the result of your ancestors struggles and success. What better memorial can there be, but happy healthy children and grandchildren stretching on for thousands of generations?

If evolution were true then society is your only guide to happiness, and even then you can't take it to the grave.

Isn't that what we have today? Society dictates what your faith is like (look at all the denominations and local sects) and how you practice it. Regardless you can find happiness in yourself. Evolution doesn't prevent you from finding happiness.

If evolution were true we don't deserve this Earth because we are killing it.

And we are ok killing the Earth otherwise?

If evolution were true I feel sorry for all of us because we are all dust in the wind.

Don't cry for me Argentina.
I'm quite happy with evolution being a part of the world. It means we can always change and adapt, that we are not limited as a species to our current faults. Our children can make something of themselves and survive on their own merits.
I find evolution to be a very hopeful thing.

wa:do

 

[The Voice of Reason]

... we are all dust in the wind.

... now you're getting the hang of it.

PS - you should apologize to Kansas. Their song deserves a better fate.

 

[The Voice of Reason]

Actually, science doesn't say that couldn't be the case. It says nothing on that subject. Science's only objective is to explain what we can detect with our five senses. That's it. There's nothing else to it.

Come on, Mball. Don't ruin it for him.