"If God Could Just Show Himself..."

[stvdv]

"Then I would believe." Right?

"If God Could Just Show Himself..."

That will never happen,

 

[epronovost]

Well, God did show up, several times in the history of this world, personally. One time God showed up even in the likeness of sinful flesh - Christ Jesus (the Son of the Father). Not only did God's own people try to kill him, they did kill him (humanity, not Divinity).

Every prayer of every atheist is soon to be answered in a most spectacular way. They will indeed all stand before God, and see with their own eyes and confess with their own mouth the truth. It's just that most aren't that patient to wait until then (and desire immediate interaction, as if God had to agree to the terms of a petulant child) and of course, they are impatient, being without the fruit of the Spirit. Yet, even so, their desire will be granted. It will not help them at that time though.

This thread would of course not be complete without a good old death/torture threat by procuration.

 

[PruePhillip]

You have mistaken what I have meant. His interests already lie within other countries however. You mention the 60's space race, well that was to even reach outer space and try to touch a dim light that reflects in the night sky; in which yes did help to accelerate intellectual developments. I honestly do believe that space exploration is way more important than even some experts may warrant, but I live on Earth which a part of space. In comparison our small planet in which we have used, abused and took for granted is way more important considering humans can not exist in the realms of Dark Matter, nor have found a feasibly reachable planet in which to continue existing. Many scientists now currently believe in the absolute possibility of advanced alien habitation within the known Universe: if this is so, how do you think they would react to a lifeform in which cannot or will not take care of its own habitat before trying to take on another one?

Money "spent on space" is actually
1 - money spent on earth
2 - money invested in earth because it teaches us about earth

Without the Sputnik age, and its galvanizing effect on American
industry and science, we could still be living in the 1950's.
When people say "We shouldn't be spending money on space"
I hear it as, "Space is 100 km above us, we need not go there."
Reminds me of how Europeans saw the world before Henry the
Navigator.

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

"Then I would believe." Right?

Well, no. You wouldn't. And that's because anyone who wants God to pop into view and play the magic trick game, probably doesn't actually understand why they would want to see God in the first place. In fact, some of them would either vent for several hours about everything God has done wrong, or try to kill Him.

In other words, you are challenging God. You are telling him to show up at 3 am or 5 pm (or the twelfth of never) and duel with you.

There's an old joke. It goes something like this. A man is caught in a flood, and he prays "please God, come save me." A boat comes along, and he's like "No thanks, I'm waiting for God to save me." A helicopter comes along, and the same deal. He dies, and he's like "God, why didn't you save me?" Yeah ummm, you rejected the helicopter and the boat.

The truth is, God mostly shows himself in a few ways. I mean, there's dreams, there's the various people God speaks through (too many stories to mention), there's nature (I one time walked away from a church policy I didn't like, and got drenched in a rainstorm), there's symbols (almost too many but one time my sister had me find her some poultry, and I couldn't find the specific kind, and the next day I found an item at the place I worked, a video called Wild Goose Chase), and so on. But we're looking for someone with a sign over them saying "This Is God"? Yeah, nobody would reveal themselves that way even as a normal person (think of how many ppl online use a persona).

So yeah, I have a "poll" below that doesn't allow any denial mode. The only way you will accept God this way is if you've actually decided that really is what you want. As long as you're in "prove yourself worthy, God" mode, you will never accept what you're looking for. The End.

Prove me wrong! I need you to show up right now and convince me that I'm mistaken!

(Nah, I'm messing with you. The first person to respond gets to decide what this thread is about instead. It's 3 am, so have a song)

To this "argument"? No. For starters? It is highly insulting. You presume to know what every atheist wants and thinks, here.

You ASSume that we don't want to believe-- for many atheists, that is absolutely false.

But. There is a handy meme that already addresses this-- no theist I've ever run into? Can answer this meme, without simply being insulting-- and still not answering.

 

[MJ Bailey]

Money "spent on space" is actually
1 - money spent on earth
2 - money invested in earth because it teaches us about earth

Without the Sputnik age, and its galvanizing effect on American
industry and science, we could still be living in the 1950's.
When people say "We shouldn't be spending money on space"
I hear it as, "Space is 100 km above us, we need not go there."
Reminds me of how Europeans saw the world before Henry the
Navigator.

No problem what so ever with money spent on space exploration and I completely agree that this is a key and vital importance, however do we have 100% knowledge of what is under our own feet?

 

[Bird123]

"Then I would believe." Right?

Well, no. You wouldn't. And that's because anyone who wants God to pop into view and play the magic trick game, probably doesn't actually understand why they would want to see God in the first place. In fact, some of them would either vent for several hours about everything God has done wrong, or try to kill Him.

In other words, you are challenging God. You are telling him to show up at 3 am or 5 pm (or the twelfth of never) and duel with you.

There's an old joke. It goes something like this. A man is caught in a flood, and he prays "please God, come save me." A boat comes along, and he's like "No thanks, I'm waiting for God to save me." A helicopter comes along, and the same deal. He dies, and he's like "God, why didn't you save me?" Yeah ummm, you rejected the helicopter and the boat.

The truth is, God mostly shows himself in a few ways. I mean, there's dreams, there's the various people God speaks through (too many stories to mention), there's nature (I one time walked away from a church policy I didn't like, and got drenched in a rainstorm), there's symbols (almost too many but one time my sister had me find her some poultry, and I couldn't find the specific kind, and the next day I found an item at the place I worked, a video called Wild Goose Chase), and so on. But we're looking for someone with a sign over them saying "This Is God"? Yeah, nobody would reveal themselves that way even as a normal person (think of how many ppl online use a persona).

So yeah, I have a "poll" below that doesn't allow any denial mode. The only way you will accept God this way is if you've actually decided that really is what you want. As long as you're in "prove yourself worthy, God" mode, you will never accept what you're looking for. The End.

Prove me wrong! I need you to show up right now and convince me that I'm mistaken!

(Nah, I'm messing with you. The first person to respond gets to decide what this thread is about instead. It's 3 am, so have a song)

How about this: Everyone already knows God whether they know they know or not. If you actually bump into God, believing will not be an issue simply because you will know God.

Religion has corrupted everyone's view convincing people Believing is important. Since beliefs are all they have, they must get people to value beliefs above all else or they would have no followers.

Everyone ask yourself this question: Is life and this world really about Believing in God?????

As I see it, Believing is not what this world is about. Believing has never ever been important to God. Be who you must! It's a part of the Plan!

God does not make junk. Do not allow others to convince you that you are not worthy to be with God. We all will see God in time. God is not the Monster you might have been led to believe. Think Higher Level rather than the petty things mankind holds so dear.

Well, that's what I see. It's very clear.

 

[PruePhillip]

No problem what so ever with money spent on space exploration and I completely agree that this is a key and vital importance, however do we have 100% knowledge of what is under our own feet?

The idea that we don't explore space until the 100% explore earth
really means we don't explore space at all.
In fact we have learned a huge amount of what is "under our feet"
by what is in space - we learn how planets are put together, we find
in meteors samples of failed earths, we learn how the moon and
earth formed, we find primitive organics, we see the early evolution
of our earth, we sense through gravity what lies underneath our
crust etc etc etc..

 

[McBell]

View attachment 36195

I can not agree with the last one.

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

I can not agree with the last one.

Yeah... it's presumptuous that god is necessarily good. It hinges on god-claims made by theists.

It ignores indifferent gods, which are neither good nor evil-- but those may be safely ignored, for we can do nothing about them either way. They may as well not exist, for all they affect humans.

 

[McBell]

Yeah... it's presumptuous that god is necessarily good. It hinges on god-claims made by theists.

It ignores indifferent gods, which are neither good nor evil-- but those may be safely ignored, for we can do nothing about them either way. They may as well not exist, for all they affect humans.

It is presumptuous to think that in order to be loving he has to reveal himself.

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

It is presumptuous to think that in order to be loving he has to reveal himself.

Not if the consequences are so dire, as every theist claims.

But, no, it's not presumptuous-- if god loves us? God would make itself known. That's how love works.

 

[McBell]

Not if the consequences are so dire, as every theist claims.

But, no, it's not presumptuous-- if god loves us? God would make itself known. That's how love works.

If you say so.