If God created everything why didn't he create it perfect?

[Quagmire]

Your post/point displays remarkable insight and wisdom...this is clear in that the pov you put forward faultlessly mirrors my previous statements on the issue-

http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/2378216-post31.html

And, deja vu, while conversing with the same respondent in both instances.

Have fun guys!

LOL! I just read through a few pages of that debate and all I can say is you have a lot more patience than I do.

Man walks into the kitchen to find his roommate on his hands and knees scanning the floor:

Man: "What are you looking for"?

Roommate: "Oh, I lost one of my contact lenses in the garage earlier"

Man: "Oh. So why are you looking for it in the kitchen"?

Roommate: "Light's better in here".

 

[Koldo]

In this world we would all be little gods.
We would all be Super Beings.
But,
there would be no Heroes.

Is this a problem for you?

 

[Koldo]

No problem with it at all....it just tastes better after the illusion of mortality and the time/conditions to work out what would be worthy of eternity.

This is an assumption.
Just an assumption.

 

[Koldo]

"If life had a designer, and the designer was perfect, why isn't all life perfect?"

If all were perfect, whatever that is, it would an incredibly boring life.

A perfect life can not be boring.
Because if it is boring then it is not perfect.

 

[Penumbra]

"Truly better" is the problematic proposition here: if we're not living in that world, if it's merely a hypothetical, then it isn't "truly" better, it's only hypothetically better.

You're basically saying that we should rate a world in accordance with subjective experience and then assign it an objective value.

Unless someone is experiencing that world subjectively, then it isn't a better world.

Better for whom? If you're asking that we compare these worlds objectively, then we have to place ourselves outside of subjective experience, at which point we have nothing to rate them with.

I disagree: I think if we suddenly found ourselves in a "better" world: say Meow Mix's hypothetical world where the worst thing that could happen to someone is that they could stub their toe, then in that world stubbing your toe would be that world's equivalent of "grievous suffering". We would still have the POE (and we would most likely still be having this debate). All that would have to change would be the examples you're using.

Remember: your whole concept of the POE is based on a standard that you set in accordance with what you consider this world's harshest aspects.

If all those aspects were eliminated, the next set of harshest aspects would then become the harshest aspects, and your sensibilities would shift accordingly.

This seems to be both purely speculative and incorrect. Can you share what you're basing this on?

I'm not going to defend Meow Mix's world because it's not my argument. But sure, let's use that as an example. If the worst possible thing that could happen to a person in the world is that they can stub their toe, then on what basis do you suggest that their sensibilities would shift such that this is equivalent to agony? How can this be reasonably compared to a world where one of the worst things that can happen to a person is that, while living in a poverty-stricken war-torn area, their father is chopped to bits alive in front of them with a machete, their mother is raped, tortured, and killed in front of them, and then they are brainwashed as children to kill people and eventually get shot and killed himself?

If the worst possible thing in a world is to feel minor pain, compared to a world where the worst possible thing is to be physically and emotionally destroyed as a child, I don't see how these things can be reasonably compared at all. As long as the body is the same, stubbing a toe doesn't turn into "grievous suffering" simply because it's the worst possible thing. Is this really your position?

 

[McBell]

A perfect life can not be boring.
Because if it is boring then it is not perfect.

Really?
And what if someones idea of the perfect life is for said life to be boring?

 

[Koldo]

Really?
And what if someones idea of the perfect life is for said life to be boring?

I have never heard of 'boredom' being seen as a positive attribute.

 

[McBell]

I have never heard of 'boredom' being seen as a positive attribute.

And?

Perhaps the problem is the whole "me", "I", thing you got going here?

 

[Koldo]

And?

Perhaps the problem is the whole "me", "I", thing you got going here?

Could you present to me someone who actually enjoys 'boredom'?

If not then you have a very weak argument.

 

[leedan]

Maybe we are perfect within the boundries of the raw materials used to create us. The physics of this universe may differ than others. Our creator may just be a scientist.

 

[McBell]

Could you present to me someone who actually enjoys 'boredom'?

If not then you have a very weak argument.

so you are saying that my argument is weak merely because YOU cannot fathom that someone might enjoy boredom?

Again:

Perhaps the problem is the whole "me", "I", thing you got going here?​

 

[Koldo]

so you are saying that my argument is weak merely because YOU cannot fathom that someone might enjoy boredom?

Again:

Perhaps the problem is the whole "me", "I", thing you got going here?​

Not really.

I am leaving myself open to this possibility.
Therefore i ask of you to present to me someone who does enjoy boredom.
If you can't, then you have a weak argument, that is what i am saying.

The problem with enjoying 'boredom' is that given its own definition there is a very very slim chance someone would actually enjoy it. I dare say it is nearly impossible unless you have some sort of mental disorder.

 

[McBell]

Not really.

I am leaving myself open to this possibility.
Therefore i ask of you to present to me someone who does enjoy boredom.
If you can't, then you have a weak argument, that is what i am saying.

The problem with enjoying 'boredom' is that given its own definition there is a very very slim chance someone would actually enjoy it. I dare say it is nearly impossible unless you have some sort of mental disorder.

Wow.
You make so many assumptions.

However, you do bring up a valid point.
I cannot present to you either of my uncles.
For they are both dead.

So if you want to continue to limit the possibility merely because you cannot fathom it, that is on you, not me.

 

[Koldo]

Wow.
You make so many assumptions.

However, you do bring up a valid point.
I cannot present to you either of my uncles.
For they are both dead.

So if you want to continue to limit the possibility merely because you cannot fathom it, that is on you, not me.

You are hilarious.

Boredom is widely regarded as a bad feeling.
Something that could not take place in a perfect life.
Unless you can prove that boredom is something that can be enjoyed then your argument is fruitless, that is all.

 

[Koldo]

Also, allow me to say one more thing.

You are the one making the assumption that boredom can be enjoyed.
You should pay attention to yourself before pointing fingers to others.

 

[McBell]

Also, allow me to say one more thing.

You are the one making the assumption that boredom can be enjoyed.
You should pay attention to yourself before pointing fingers to others.

I am not the one who claims that boredom equates imperfection.
That would be....
Oh yeah, you.

 

[Bismillah]

If one enjoys boredom then they are not bored, they are content

 

[McBell]

Boredom is widely regarded as a bad feeling.

You go from an appeal to incredulity to an appeal to numbers?

Something that could not take place in a perfect life.

Really?
Please present this "absolute" perfect life model you use as your basis for comparison.

Unless you can prove that boredom is something that can be enjoyed then your argument is fruitless, that is all.

Seems to me that you are disinclined to even accept the possibility for no other reason than you dislike boredom.

What makes you think that your likes and dislikes are universal?

 

[Koldo]

I am not the one who claims that boredom equates imperfection.
That would be....
Oh yeah, you.

I am not the one who claims that boredom does not equate to imperfection.
That would be...
Oh yea, you.

 

[Koldo]

If one enjoys boredom then they are not bored, they are content

Straight to the point.