If God created everything why didn't he create it perfect?

[McBell]

If one enjoys boredom then they are not bored, they are content

So in your mind it not possible to be content with boredom?

 

[Koldo]

You go from an appeal to incredulity to an appeal to numbers?

Would you care to tell me where have i made use of an appeal to incredulity?

I have certainly not made use of an appeal to numbers.
I am merely saying that most people understand the word boredom in such a way that it does not allow room for it to be enjoyed.

Really?
Please present this "absolute" perfect life model you use as your basis for comparison.

Only good feelings take part of an absolute perfect life with very very few possible exceptions.

Seems to me that you are disinclined to even accept the possibility for no other reason than you dislike boredom.

What makes you think that your likes and dislikes are universal?

I am inclined to accept your argument as long as you can prove it.
I am not going to accept just because that is what you want.

My likes and dislikes are not universal.
I have already asked of you to present to me someone who actually enjoys boredom. Maybe you can give me a link to peer reviewed article or something of the sort. But instead of trying to prove your point, you simply waste your time and mine with useless attacks.

 

[blackout]

Is this a problem for you?

It raises up a poignant feeling of loss in me.

Think of all the novels,
epic poems,
movies,
comic books,
all the mythologies
stories
and even tall tales
that revolve around heroes.

Mankind in hostile conditions
seems to have this need
to create heroes.

Then,
there are the real life heroes,
men and women
who do heroic things
for others
in the face of great
potential personal loss or harm.

There are also the heroes of Individualism,
who stand up to public/pier/societal/govt./family pressure
in an open move to BE Who they really are,
in the face of persecution, superstition, and mis'understanding.
They are men and women of inner strength and resolve.
Courage.

In a "perfect" world,
there would be no need.. no call... for heroes.
In a "perfect" world,
there would be no "adversaries", no epic battle.
No call to courage.

More than anything
I would miss the epic call of the inner Hero
in art, mythology and life.

I am left with a kind of melancholy longing,
at the thought of such a loss.

 

[Bismillah]

So in your mind it not possible to be content with boredom?

Seems to me that boredom is equitable with discontent.
bored/bôrd/Adjective

1. Feeling weary because one is unoccupied or lacks interest in one's current activity.

To make weary by being dull, repetitive, or tedious
bored - definition of bored by the Free Online Dictionary, Thesaurus and Encyclopedia.

bore·dom

noun \ˈbȯr-dəm\
Definition of BOREDOM

: the state of being weary and restless through lack of interest

Boredom - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary

dis·con·tent/ˌdiskənˈtent/Noun

1. Lack of contentment; dissatisfaction with one's circumstances.
2. A person who is dissatisfied, typically with the prevailing social or political situation.

not content; dissatisfied; discontented. Also, dis·con·tent·ment. lack of content; dissatisfaction.
a restless desire or craving for something one does not have.

a malcontent.

Discontent | Define Discontent at Dictionary.com

 

[Koldo]

It raises up a poignant feeling of loss in me.

Think of all the novels,
epic poems,
movies,
comic books,
all the mythologies
stories
and even tall tales
that revolve around heroes.

Mankind in hostile conditions
seems to have this need
to create heroes.

Then,
there are the real life heroes,
men and women
who do heroic things
for others
in the face of great
potential personal loss or harm.

There are also the heroes of Individualism,
who stand up to public/pier/societal/govt./family pressure
in an open move to BE Who they really are,
in the face of persecution, superstition, and mis'understanding.

In a "perfect" world,
there would be no need.. no call... for heroes.
In a "perfect" world,
there would be no "adversaries", no epic battle.

More than anything
I would miss the epic call of the inner Hero
in art, mythology and life.

I am left with a kind of melancholy longing,
at the thought of such a loss.

I understand what you are talking about.

But it would be a small price to pay for a far greater good, wouldn't you agree?

 

[blackout]

I understand what you are talking about.

But it would be a small price to pay for a far greater good, wouldn't you agree?

I think it would be even greater,
if we came into our own perfect worlds
as Heroes
after the battle.
Knights of our Own Self Conquest.

Not of some "other god",
but of Our Own Personal Self Being.
From there we could Kepher and Remanifest
for all of eternity.
Gods of our own Creation.
Each with our Own Epic tale of Knighthood,
as our his'story.

This to me,
sounds quite perfect.

 

[Koldo]

I think it would be even greater,
if we came into our own perfect worlds
as Heroes
after the battle.
Knights of our Own Self Conquest.

Not of some "other god",
but of Our Own Personal Self Being.
From there we could Kepher and Remanifest
for all of eternity.
Gods of our own Creation.
Each with our Own Epic tale of Knighthood,
as our his'story.

This to me,
sounds quite perfect.

What good will a Hero do in a perfect life?
There will be no one to be saved.

Not to mention you have to consider the possibility that not everyone wins the battle. Not all heroes succeed in their missions. The ending is not always what one hoped for.

Also worth note the feeling of pride that pervades this kind of life. Pride is a feeling that gives rise to many bad things. I wonder if it is possible to remain with it in a perfect life.

 

[Vendetta]

If life had a designer, and the designer was perfect, why isn't all life perfect?
Why is our trachea ventral (infront) of our oesophagus, (posing the risk of choking, meaning we have to have an epiglottis).
Why are our retinas inverted (i.e. the rods and cones point the wrong way round).

Why do biological proteins not always work efficient, e.g. RUBISCO has an oxygenase activity (an evolutionary accident).
And following from that, why are not all plants the more efficient C4 (or CAM) plants (most are C3).
Why didn't god just make them all the more efficient C4?

There are many more examples of imperfections in life...

All of the above can be explained by evolution, but why would a designer do this.

Perfection needs to be clearly defined. If perfection you mean "without flaw" then you're just commenting from the perspective of the human. Humans naturally (modern view) have constructed the idea of perfection through personal experience. I think God can't be blamed for a person born without a limb, or with cleft lip, or with crooked teeth.

 

[Wombat]

This is an assumption.
Just an assumption.

Well...I cannot assume to know which bit (or all) you are rejecting as an assumption-

That mortality is an illusion

or

That imortality would taste better having lived through the illusion of mortality.

 

[Wombat]

I think it would be even greater,
if we came into our own perfect worlds
as Heroes
after the battle.
Knights of our Own Self Conquest.

Not of some "other god",
but of Our Own Personal Self Being.
From there we could Kepher and Remanifest
for all of eternity.
Gods of our own Creation.
Each with our Own Epic tale of Knighthood,
as our his'story.

This to me,
sounds quite perfect.

What a truely splendid little post!

Makes me wanna sing-

[youtube]gVAnlke_xUY[/youtube]
YouTube - ‪Van Morrison - Into The Mystic (Original Version)‬‏

 

[lew0049]

Well...I cannot assume to know which bit (or all) you are rejecting as an assumption-

That mortality is an illusion

or

That imortality would taste better having lived through the illusion of mortality.

If mortality is an illusion then each one of us creates our own realities, correct?

 

[PolyHedral]

Perfection needs to be clearly defined. If perfection you mean "without flaw" then you're just commenting from the perspective of the human. Humans naturally (modern view) have constructed the idea of perfection through personal experience. I think God can't be blamed for a person born without a limb, or with cleft lip, or with crooked teeth.

Why not? Does He not have the power to prevent it?

 

[lew0049]

I really don't understand the logic behind the related topic b/c there is so much that is not addressed.

1. If "God" is perfect then it makes logical sense that "God" could create something not perfect. But even then, there is an underlying flaw with this argument because it assumes that our perfect would be in-line with "God's" perfect. Furthermore, from what little we know about "God" in any sense, wouldn't speculating on his abilities and limitations be just pure speculation? I think so.

2. What would a perfect world entail from our perspective? Well, I believe at the root of everyone's desires is to be loved. I'm not going to get into the metaphysical aspects of this argument because I really don't believe them to be relevant (unless someone brings up a point regarding it with relation to this post). If love is our #1 desire then it must have an opposite. If we're given the possibility to love then we must also be given the possibility to suffer. If a person never loved then he would never suffer. But then again, he never would have really loved. Or just look at good and evil. Mankind having the potential for so much good is indicative that we must also have the possibility of its counter, evil.

3. Freedom. The risk of freedom must be proportional to its potential for good. If I have the freedom to love only one person, then I have the freedom to hurt only one person. Without freedom we would be robots. Debating would be void because why debate when the world is perfect? We wouldn't know the word perfect because we would always been in the state of perfection.

 

[lew0049]

Why not? Does He not have the power to prevent it?

Interesting question.

The fact that what "God" creates is less than himself introduces imperfections and limitations. Any created thing must, for example, possess a limited set of characteristics which rules out the possibility of it possessing other characteristics incompatible with these. Unfortunately this would lead to some problematic consequences. The ground that holds you up is also hard enough for you to stub your toe on it or the air we breath must also be thin enough for you to fall through it without a hard enough surface to support you. This dependability of the world which makes it possible for rational, morally responsible creatures to live would work against us at times.

Also, wouldn't "God" preventing these acts neglect our freedom or free-will? I'm sure you have suffered just as much/if not more than myself, so at face value the argument of intervening sounds appealing. But then I would ask, to what extent or in which circumstances should "God" intervene? Furthermore, if "God" has intervened, how would we know? How do we know there haven't been 50 potential Hitlers that God intervened with?

Just my 2 cents

 

[Wombat]

If mortality is an illusion then each one of us creates our own realities, correct?

I would have thought that whether or not “mortality is an illusion” that “each one of us creates our own realities”-to some/greater or lesser degree......no?

 

[Koldo]

Well...I cannot assume to know which bit (or all) you are rejecting as an assumption-

That mortality is an illusion

or

That imortality would taste better having lived through the illusion of mortality.

Both.

 

[Willamena]

Because what possible interest would an eternally satisfied being have with something that is, by nature, fleeting and insubstantial? If God enjoys sitting in a chair, let's say, then God has an eternally manifest chair in God's eternal abode. God doesn't need to create one as if that desire was previously a void to be filled.

What is wrong with "fleeting and insubstantial"? As surely your statments imply something wrong with it.

Doesn't each moment exist?

 

[Koldo]

I really don't understand the logic behind the related topic b/c there is so much that is not addressed.

1. If "God" is perfect then it makes logical sense that "God" could create something not perfect. But even then, there is an underlying flaw with this argument because it assumes that our perfect would be in-line with "God's" perfect.

This is possible. But it becomes a hard position to defend because you would have to explain how the inexistence of necrosis ( for example ) would make this an imperfect world. Also, the problem with God creating a less than perfect world is that he is commonly thought of being omnibenevolent.

Furthermore, from what little we know about "God" in any sense, wouldn't speculating on his abilities and limitations be just pure speculation? I think so.

We are talking about the christian God here.
Such God is assumed to be omnipotent and omniscient by most christians.
And so, the speculation comes from the religious root itself.

2. What would a perfect world entail from our perspective? Well, I believe at the root of everyone's desires is to be loved. I'm not going to get into the metaphysical aspects of this argument because I really don't believe them to be relevant (unless someone brings up a point regarding it with relation to this post).

Actually, no suffering ( or almost ) would be more important. But let's continue...

If love is our #1 desire then it must have an opposite. If we're given the possibility to love then we must also be given the possibility to suffer.

Not really. Can you prove it?
This is a speculation.

If a person never loved then he would never suffer. But then again, he never would have really loved. Or just look at good and evil. Mankind having the potential for so much good is indicative that we must also have the possibility of its counter, evil.

It is worth note this kind of suffering is small compared to how much the word suffering represents.

...Without freedom we would be robots. Debating would be void because why debate when the world is perfect? We wouldn't know the word perfect because we would always been in the state of perfection.

And that would be a good thing.

 

[bhaktajan]

God = Supreme personality of Godhead personified.

The Material cosmos = manifestation of Duality.

Eternity = No "Time".

Time-less = No Duality

Non-Material energy = unified Consciousness.

The Material cosmos exists in a field of darkness where times exists.

Conscious Souls have "time-shares" paid with conscious effort for self-sustanence.

Transcendence is for personas in the service of the Original Person.

Aside from this lies the phantasmagoria of forms and sensations of locomotion and self-engrandisement via a bodily birth and its concomitant ego ---time after time, birth after birth ('samsara') all the while proclaiming our propriety to lord-over all we survey ---in all stratums of life. Reality means seeking out the Supreme (coolest, richest, smartest, strongest etc Person ---aka, the autocrate known as God).

Aside from seeking out the Supreme ---we are enscounced in the supra-mundane ---that we can attest to daily, just as the news headlines do too.

 

[lunamoth]

"Perfect" is always from someone's particular point of view.