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If God existed how could it be proven?

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
I know you don't believe the Bible literally, but what about angels? Supposedly, angels appear and tell things to people, especially to prophets. Do you believe angels are real? If so, we still got a problem... they are spirit beings, yet they appear in human form. If God wanted to he could send an angel to convince anybody he wanted to. Or, in visions and dreams? I know Christians that have had visions of Jesus and of heaven. And I've heard that there's been some Catholics that claim they had a vision of Mary. And, I heard that some Baha'is have had visions of Abdul Baha. So maybe not God himself, but still, those experiences were life-changing for them.
I posted to you about angels a while back. Angels are holy souls who can exist in heaven or in earth.
Below is one thing that Baha'u'llah wrote about angels.

“And now, concerning His words: “And He shall send His angels….” By “angels” is meant those who, reinforced by the power of the spirit, have consumed, with the fire of the love of God, all human traits and limitations, and have clothed themselves with the attributes of the most exalted Beings and of the Cherubim. That holy man, Ṣádiq, 37 in his eulogy of the Cherubim, saith: “There stand a company of our fellow-Shí’ihs behind the Throne.” Divers and manifold are the interpretations of the words “behind the Throne.” In one sense, they indicate that no true Shí’ihs exist. Even as he hath said in another passage: “A true believer is likened unto the philosopher’s stone.” Addressing subsequently his listener, he saith: “Hast thou ever seen the philosopher’s stone?” Reflect, how this symbolic language, more eloquent than any speech, however direct, testifieth to the non-existence of a true believer. Such is the testimony of Ṣádiq. And now consider, how unfair and numerous are those who, although they themselves have failed to inhale the fragrance of belief, have condemned as infidels those by whose word belief itself is recognized and established.

And now, inasmuch as these holy beings have sanctified themselves from every human limitation, have become endowed with the attributes of the spiritual, and have been adorned with the noble traits of the blessed, they therefore have been designated as “angels.” Such is the meaning of these verses, every word of which hath been expounded by the aid of the most lucid texts, the most convincing arguments, and the best established evidences.” The Kitáb-i-Íqán, pp. 78-80

And here is what is in the Bible, not all that different from what Baha'u'llah wrote..

Question: "What are cherubim? Are cherubs angels?"

Answer:
Cherubim/cherubs are angelic beings involved in the worship and praise of God. The cherubim are first mentioned in the Bible in Genesis 3:24, “After He drove the man out, He placed on the east side of the Garden of Eden cherubim and a flaming sword flashing back and forth to guard the way to the tree of life.” Prior to his rebellion, Satan was a cherub (Ezekiel 28:12-15). The tabernacle and temple along with their articles contained many representations of cherubim (Exodus 25:17-22; 26:1, 31; 36:8; 1 Kings 6:23-35; 7:29-36; 8:6-7; 1 Chronicles 28:18; 2 Chronicles 3:7-14; 2 Chronicles 3:10-13; 5:7-8; Hebrews 9:5).

Chapters 1 and 10 of the book of Ezekiel describe the “four living creatures” (Ezekiel 1:5) as the same beings as the cherubim (Ezekiel 10). Each had four faces—that of a man, a lion, an ox, and an eagle (Ezekiel 1:10; also 10:14)—and each had four wings. In their appearance, the cherubim “had the likeness of a man” (Ezekiel 1:5). These cherubim used two of their wings for flying and the other two for covering their bodies (Ezekiel 1:6, 11, 23). Under their wings the cherubim appeared to have the form, or likeness, of a man's hand (Ezekiel 1:8; 10:7-8, 21).

The imagery of Revelation 4:6-9 also seems to be describing cherubim. The cherubim serve the purpose of magnifying the holiness and power of God. This is one of their main responsibilities throughout the Bible. In addition to singing God's praises, they also serve as a visible reminder of the majesty and glory of God and His abiding presence with His people.

Recommended Resources: Angels: Elect & Evil by C. Fred Dickason and Logos Bible Software.

What are cherubim? Are cherubs angels? | GotQuestions.org

#201 Trailblazer, 1 minute ago
 

rational experiences

Veteran Member
Man said as his owned contradiction a scientist I speak on behalf of god.

You are only a man.
A human.
My female human life equal. A baby born as my baby son. Men man's life continuance.

A sex act.

My father was a baby adult man.

Our original father deceased owns heavenly man's lived spiritual life. First.

Men living state I am very spiritual and holy. As humans.

First father origin self deceased.

You irradiated attacked self. What memories do you remember,?

Deceased man adult heavenly father.

Image in clouds.

Then baby man human created only in human sex imaged in clouds also

Mother said you lost natural life memory.

O earth God travels.

Science leaves burning irradiation earth trail. The circuit earth constant. We inherit it's encoded vision imaged causes. To teach remember what you did scientist occultist.

O God earth holy on one side space.

Burnt memory life attacked the other side. A circuit inherited.

Transmitted cooling earth memories.

Ground state God nuclear reactions.

Baby and adult life living on ground.

Cooling takes image life killed ground state into heavens.

By causes God earth movement.

You always knew why.
 

McBell

Unbound
I never once said that I am making excuses for God.
Please quote me saying I am making excuses for God or stop saying that I am making excuses for God.
Seriously?
PLease quote where I said you said you were making excuses for god?
So here, once again you are accusing me of something I have not done.
That makes at least THREE times this thread alone.

You keep saying I am making excuses for God.
That is because you are.

It is all in the posts so you cannot deny it
That won't fly, not on my watch.
Please quote where I denied pointing out you were making excuses for God.

NOw we are up to FOUR times this thread alone where you accuse me of something I have not done.

No offense, but this merely comes off as nothing more than you making excuses for God....
#93 Mestemia, Yesterday at 10:55 PM

Mestemia said:
If so, I am wondering why you are the one listing excuses for god.

You present a long list of excuses for God.
I point out that you presented a long list of excuses for God.
You ask why God would need excuses
I said why indeed, yet here we are.

In fact, if God really is the God you claim God to be, why indeed would god need you to make excuses for him?

You present a long list of excuses for God.
#161 Mestemia, Today at 2:11 PM

Mestemia said:
How does that follow?
Your presenting excuses for god means YOU think god needs excuses.
My pointing it out in no way reveals my stance on the subject.

then why this list of excuses:
Trailblazer said:
God does care if you know that He exists but God does not want to convince anyone that He exists, God wants it to be a choice you make. In other words, God wants you to look at the evidence and convince yourself and then choose to believe.

God does know what it would take to convince each and every person that He exists because God is all-knowing.

The part that atheists miss is that God does not want to convince anyone that He exists.
Atheists want God to convince them that He exists but God does not want to do that and you cannot make an all-powerful God do anything that He does not want to do.

Also, God is not going to present a different kind of evidence to everyone, evidence that is tailor-made for them like a suit. God provides the same evidence for everyone. People that choose to believe it get their reward and people who don't choose to believe it don't get the reward.

“He who shall accept and believe, shall receive his reward; and he who shall turn away, shall receive none other than his own punishment.” Gleanings, p. 339

The punishment is not getting the reward you could have had in this life and in the next life. I know of no other punishment, but judging people is not my department. I believe that God will punish truly evil people, but not nonbelievers who led good lives. I also believe that God knows all our capacities so God does not expect the same from everyone because that would not be just.
Click to expand...
#165 Mestemia, Today at 2:51 PM

Mestemia said:
Your list of excuses were presented in the post this post of yours is in reply to.

Trailblazer said:
All I ever did was explain how God operates.
Your excusing your god through SoP does not change the excuses into not excuses.
#173 Mestemia, Today at 3:16 PM
And here we merely see where I point out you are making excuses.
AND you also present some of said excuses.

Now present where I accused you of you claiming you were making excuses for God...
You can not.
Because it did not happen.

Now present where I denied pointing out you are making excuses for god...
You can not.
Because it did not happen

Those are not excuses,
they are just what I believe about how God operates.
Except they are excuses.
Excuses why god puts up a front to make it look as though he does not even exist.

An infallible God can never need any excuses for anything He chooses to do or not do. That is utterly illogical.
Again with yet another bold empty claim to excuse your excusing god....

Excuses? Excuses for what?
Excuses for not doing what you expect God to do?
And here again you dictate false expectations at me.
It is as though you think I am someone completely different from who I am.

Why are they excuses?
They are attempts at explaining why god does or does not do something.
Bold empty claims made to make god look better.

If you cannot answer that it will be because you cannot answer it without getting egg all over your face.
Since I have answered it, doe sit mean the egg is now all over your face.

Or will you merely ignore it as well?
 
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Aupmanyav

Be your own guru
Atheists, if God existed what would you expect God to do to prove that He exists?
Simple, let him move a mountain. Let him stop coronavirus within ten munutes making all people who might be suffering today, well. Let him grow limbs of people who have lost them. Let him make blind people to see, the deaf to hear and the dumb to speak. Show us a solid evidence not just visions of 'heavenly maidens'.
 

QuestioningMind

Well-Known Member
God did not wait thousands of years before revealing Himself, God has revealed Himself in every age and that is why there are so many different religions. God did not reveal Himself through Baha’u’llah until the present age for a simple reason, humanity was not ready for His message until this age. God only reveals what humanity is ready for, what they are able to understand and what they need.

This short chapter explains how religion evolves over time and why: Religion and Social Evolution

Of course God knew that most people aren't going to want to seek a 'new religion' but is that a reason not to reveal one? God does not pander to people’s wants; God reveals a new religion according to humanity’s needs. Humanity should be concerned with the needs of the age they live in, not what was needed in past ages, which is no longer what humanity needs in the present age. There will be more Messengers sent in the future ages and the same principle will apply at that time. Humanity needs to recognize the Messenger that God sends in the age they live in and follow Him.

“The All-Knowing Physician hath His finger on the pulse of mankind. He perceiveth the disease, and prescribeth, in His unerring wisdom, the remedy. Every age hath its own problem, and every soul its particular aspiration. The remedy the world needeth in its present-day afflictions can never be the same as that which a subsequent age may require. Be anxiously concerned with the needs of the age ye live in, and center your deliberations on its exigencies and requirements.”
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 213


The main problem is that people cling to the older religious traditions and they do not even understand that they are not what humanity needs in thus age, and when Baha’is tell them they balk at us and say we are trying to replace their religions, so what can we do about that? Everyone has free will to choose what they want to believe.

No, people do not have to look at all the older religions on order to find the new religion. If they are logical they will look at the new religion first and allow it to explain how it is related to all the older religions and why a new religion was necessary.

There can never be any verifiable evidence for God but there is verifiable evidence for the Baha’i Faith, that which cannot be found for any of the older religions because they are too remote in history and accurate records were not kept. All the older religions were leading up to and preparing the way for God’s Purpose for humanity which had to unfold over a long period of time. The Golden Age referred to in the Bible in which we will see the Kingdom of God on Earth, is yet to come, but we can see signs of change already all over the world. These changes began back in the mid-19th century with the coming of the Bab and Baha’u’llah, and even the advancements in science are related to this new cycle of religion.

God’s Purpose

The Great Age to Come

Sorry, as usual I'm not buying it. Expecting each generation to abandon the faith-based religion they've been indoctrinated into and seriously study every claim of a 'new' religion that arises during their lifetimes is completely unreasonable and terribly naïve. Especially when the 'evidence' for the validity of the new religion is the accuracy of supposed prophecies that in my opinion are indistinguishable from simple accurate predictions.

No matter how I look at it I can't view this as an effective method for a god being that doesn't want to remain hidden to reveal itself. And quite frankly if this is the best method a god being can come up with to verify its existence then I really don't find anything about this god being worthy of my acknowledgment. My life is too short and precious for me to waste it studying the writings of every person who claims to have had the 'new TRUE' path revealed to them by god in hopes that for once I'll finally find sufficient evidence that a god being is actually real.
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
Seriously?
PLease quote where I said you said you were making excuses for god?
I never said that you said that I said I was making excuses for god. Stop obfuscating, everyone can see it.

You said that I am making excuses for God. I denied that I am making excuses for God.
``````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````

You have said that “you are making excuses for God” and I have all this saved in a Word document so it is a simple copy/paste.
I am pointing out what you have done. NINE times you have accused me of making excuses for God. The proof is below.

1. Mestemia said:
No offense, but this merely comes off as nothing more than you making excuses for God....
#93 Mestemia, Yesterday at 10:55 PM

2 Mestemia said:
If so, I am wondering why you are the one listing excuses for god.

3. You present a long list of excuses for God.
I point out that you presented a long list of excuses for God.
You ask why God would need excuses
I said why indeed, yet here we are.

4. In fact, if God really is the God you claim God to be, why indeed would god need you to make excuses for him?

5. You present a long list of excuses for God.

#161 Mestemia, Today at 2:11 PM

Mestemia said:
How does that follow?
6. Your presenting excuses for god means YOU think god needs excuses.
My pointing it out in no way reveals my stance on the subject.

7. then why this list of excuses: #165 Mestemia, Today at 2:51 PM

8. Mestemia said:
Your list of excuses
were presented in the post this post of yours is in reply to.

9. Your excusing your god through SoP does not change the excuses into not excuses.
#173 Mestemia, Today at 3:16 PM
That is because you are.
That is your personal opinion but that is irrelevant to the point -- You said that I am making excuses for God.
And here we merely see where I point out you are making excuses.
AND you also present some of said excuses.
I have made no excuses for God, I offered explanations
Now present where I accused you of you claiming you were making excuses for God...
You can not.
Because it did not happen.
I never said that you accused me of you claiming I was making excuses for God because I denied making excuses for God.
Now present where I denied pointing out you are making excuses for god...
You can not.
Because it did not happen.
I never said that you denied that. Show me where I ever said that. I only said that you said that I am making excuses for God.
Except they are excuses.
Excuses why god puts up a front to make it look as though he does not even exist.
God needs no excuses because God makes no mistakes because God is infallible. Only humans need excuses and they make lots of excuses. One BIG mistake that make is when they fail to recognize the Messenger of God because they are namby pamby babies who want God to give them what they want, like petulant children. They reject God's Messengers so they do not deserve to know that God exists, and that is why they will never know.
 
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Trailblazer

Veteran Member
Sorry, as usual I'm not buying it. Expecting each generation to abandon the faith-based religion they've been indoctrinated into and seriously study every claim of a 'new' religion that arises during their lifetimes is completely unreasonable and terribly naïve. Especially when the 'evidence' for the validity of the new religion is the accuracy of supposed prophecies that in my opinion are indistinguishable from simple accurate predictions.
Nobody has any such expectation and most people will remain in the religion they were raised in. That is their loss. Only very few people will become Baha’is for a very long time.

Matthew 7:13-14 Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.

Just as Christianity was the small gate and the narrow road that led to eternal life in the first centuries when there were few Christians, the Baha'i Faith is now the small gate and the narrow road that leads to eternal life in this age. The Baha’i Faith and is the narrow gate because only a few people recognize God’s new religion in the beginning and enter through that gate.

In every new age, the religion at the narrow gate is the new religion God wants us to find and follow, and it is the gate that leads to eternal life. But it is not that easy for most people to find this gate because most people are steeped in religious tradition or attached to what they already believe. If they do not have a religion, most people are suspicious of the new religion and the new messenger. If they are atheists they do not like the idea of messengers of God or they think they are all phonies.

Jesus told us to enter through the narrow gate, the gate that leads to eternal life, and He said few people would find that gate... It is narrow, so it is difficult to get through... It is difficult to get through because one has to be willing to give up all their preconceived ideas, have an open mind, and think for themselves. Most people do not normally embark upon such a journey. They go through the wide gate, the easy one to get through – their own religious tradition or their own preconceived ideas about God or no god. They follow that broad road that is easiest for them to travel.

“The Book of God is wide open, and His Word is summoning mankind unto Him. No more than a mere handful, however, hath been found willing to cleave to His Cause, or to become the instruments for its promotion. These few have been endued with the Divine Elixir that can, alone, transmute into purest gold the dross of the world, and have been empowered to administer the infallible remedy for all the ills that afflict the children of men. No man can obtain everlasting life, unless he embraceth the truth of this inestimable, this wondrous, and sublime Revelation.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 183
No matter how I look at it I can't view this as an effective method for a god being that doesn't want to remain hidden to reveal itself. And quite frankly if this is the best method a god being can come up with to verify its existence then I really don't find anything about this god being worthy of my acknowledgment. My life is too short and precious for me to waste it studying the writings of every person who claims to have had the 'new TRUE' path revealed to them by god in hopes that for once I'll finally find sufficient evidence that a god being is actually real.
God is not hidden. If God was hidden most people would not believe in God, but they do. Essentially you are saying you know more than God about how God should communicate which is logically impossible since God is all-knowing. That’s fine if you want to disagree with God’s time honored method of communicating via Messengers, it is no skin off God’s nose because God needs nobody’s belief.

It is not my job to convince anyone to investigate the Baha’i Faith. My job is done when I have delivered the message of Baha’u’llah unless people have questions. Everyone has free will to choose what to investigate and believe.
 

Nimos

Well-Known Member
God might have had other ways to communicate but since God is all-knowing we can assume that God picked the best way from all the available options.
So would this logic apply to how God have design how things are to be done here on Earth as well? Shouldn't we assume that God being all-knowing also have made things the best way possible, of all the available options? And if that is the case, why are humans then complaining, we should happy when only 99 people die and that God made sure that it weren't 100.

This logic doesn't work in my opinion. For exactly the same reason as we have talked about before, when it comes to animal suffering, God must have created it the best possible way, so people should stop worrying or complaining about it, because it is the absolute best it can ever be.

It's like a person that have gotten the absolutely best ice cream in the world, ever possible, it simply can't be any better and they know it. Yet they still complain about it. It makes no sense, when ice cream can't be any better than it already is, EVER!! :)

It is the religious believers who are putting in the effort, not God, because that is what they have been entrusted to do by their Prophets and Messengers, but the believers should be telling you that it is your choice to believe or not believe. God does care if you believe in Him, but only for your own sake, not for His sake, because God has no needs. Only humans have needs and everything God reveals is for human needs.
Im sorry, but again this logic doesn't work. If God cared about us believing, he wouldn't allow different religions to have fought each other. Because clearly only one of them can be right.

The teachings and laws of the Messengers are not like gravel, they are the primary reason for morality and without them there never would have been any civilization.
I just don't buy it, there is no evidence for this being the case, morality existed long before the major religions, if it didn't we wouldn't have gotten to a stage where they would even have been possible to develop, we would have killed each other way before that could ever have happened.
 

leroy

Well-Known Member
If he had done that how would that be proof to anyone except those who witnessed the miracles and the resurrection?
by your logic... Cosmic Microwave Radiation is only proof* for the big bang for those who have seen such radiation.

third parties like us, who have only read about this radiation in books and articles are not direct witnesses, and therefore it doesn't counts evidence for the big bang
 

Justanatheist

Well-Known Member
by your logic... Cosmic Microwave Radiation is only proof* for the big bang for those who have seen such radiation.

third parties like us, who have only read about this radiation in books and articles are not direct witnesses, and therefore it doesn't counts evidence for the big bang

No because you go out and measure it yourself, tell me where I can go out and measure a miracle?
 

viole

Ontological Naturalist
Premium Member
Why would it mess with our free will? We can still choose to believe the evidence or not believe it.
Yes, and that is why I asked you to provide that evidence, fruit or whatever. Where is it?

Ciao

- viole
 

A Vestigial Mote

Well-Known Member
When I was minoring in philosophy, I was annoyed by the branch of philosophy called existentialism (discussion of existence). Ultimately, there is no proof that one exists.
And? Of what matter is that, do you think? What you're trying to do here is merely cast enough doubt on the idea that "one exists", while simultaneously acknowledging that one most definitely experiences something like existence, therefore giving them the ability answer that "yes, I exist" so that all the doubt that everyone feels about God's existence can also be ignored in favor of "yes, God exists." The problem being that that is NOT a 1-to-1 correlation in even any vague sense. My existence and ongoing evidence to myself that this is the case is NOTHING LIKE "God's" supposed existence and any evidence I might receive for that notion. Nothing like it at all. The evidence for God is in a state of disarray resembling so much garbage haphazardly thrown into a rusty bin that is itself garbage.

Photos of a dog could be fakes.
Which is a mundane thing to fake, honestly, and it doesn't really matter in the slightest to my life (or anyone else's, likely) whether or not the dog in the photo actually exists. But what you want us all to do is assume the existence of something whose presence within reality in any manner would be an extremely important thing. Knowing that a god exists would be extremely important information to have - the exact impact of what it meant would need to be investigated - for, to be sure, all of the current stories vary widely enough that it can be assumed that no one has it quite right at the moment. And that's a major problem when you consider all of the things it is said are possible that God might accomplish - like punishing people who don't quite have the story right! And so, because that finding would be so important, it must necessarily take a very arduous adherence to the evidence to be absolutely certain what it means that "a god exists" - and to figure out what we had better be doing with that information in order not to be "in the wrong" with respect to god(s). But as it stands, all I see are a whole bunch of people being VERY irresponsible about this type of information. So irresponsible that they very well could be putting us all in danger - provided this "god" character exists, of course.

Aren't we the tool marks of God?
No. Why would you think this? Because someone informed you or hinted at some point that we were? What intersubjectively verifiable evidence do you have that human beings are "toolmarks of God?" As it stands, I have to assume that you just think that since I have heard this often enough before, I should just accept it. I'll tell you now - don't hold you breath waiting on me to accept this ridiculous statement outright... you'd die of oxygen deprivation.

If God has no body, He might exist as only thought.
I could accept this as a premise for the actual "Existence" of God." Lilk unicorns, or leprechauns - that currently seem to exist only as figments of someone's imagination.

If so, it should be clear that thought alone could move or make objects.
This is quite a twisting of the facts, I must say. I'd like to see you "move" an object using thought alone. No application of force from any part of your body or from any other implement or apparatus. Just using thought alone, move an object. Can you? How about "make" an object? Can you do that with your thoughts alone? I highly doubt that you can. So why did you say the above? That it is "clear" that "thought alone could move or make objects?" Did you mean objects in your head? As in, you could "make" an apple appear in your own head? If so, then so what? I can make a blagfarblestanden in my head - there it is now - one eye, a huge, purple shell like a conch, tentacles with claws on the ends. There - I did it! Now what? Do I get a prize? Did I just create something on par with "God," do you think? I bet I did! Wow! How exciting! Now we can all go on to worship the bligfarblestanden, right? Isn't that what you do with things you "make" in your head? Oh wait... no... that would be entirely pathetic.
 

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
I can hardly believe you just said that. God is Spirit and has no physical properties. If that is what you expext, you will never find it.
I'm saying that whatever God's "properties," if his existence were established, he would be counted among the things that physically exist.

"Physical" and "material" are defined by that which exists in physical reality, but physical reality is not the only reality, it is just the only reality we can SEE from the physical reality in which we presently reside, for obvious logical reasons.
The "physical"/"supernatural" (or "spiritual") dichotomy isn't based on any innate characteristics of a thing; it's based on epistemology:

- if it's well-demonstrated that a thing exists, it's physical.
- if there isn't good evidence for a thing but people get deeply invested in it, it's "spiritual" or "supernatural."

There's nothing that, once established to be real, stays as "spiritual" or "supernatural."

God only hides His Essence, God does not hide anything else. God reveals His attributes and His will through the Messengers, who are Manifestations of God.
Like I said: a useless concept.
 

Mock Turtle

Oh my, did I say that!
Premium Member
God manifested Himself in the material realm of existence every time He sent a Messenger as His Representative.
That is as close as you will ever get to firsthand because God is Spirit so God cannot "show up" and be seen in the material world.
Apparently God created existence, or our world at least (material as far as I can tell), but cannot show up in such? Some limitation I would say - if one was to present said God as omni-all. That's one limitation scored. :soccerball: :oops:
 

TagliatelliMonster

Veteran Member
How could we prove that God exists if God is in hiding, undetectable by humans?

How could we prove God exists if God is not in the material world and has no physical properties?

What does it even mean to "exist" if there is no detectability, no physical properties, not part of the material world...

ie, when it is without any detectable manifestation whatsoever?

What's the actual difference between such an entity and a non-existing one?

Atheists, if God existed what would you expect God to do to prove that He exists? What would be adequate proof for you to believe that God exists? Would you expect absolute proof of would you accept evidence?


Since so far this "god" is pretty much indistinguishable from non-existent things, I wouldn't have a clue how to answer any of these questions.
 

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
I never presented ANY excuses for God. All I ever did was explain how God operates.

You think what I present are excuses because you think God needs excuses because you do not like how God operates.

Why not stop paying games?
I agree with @Mestemia

Whatever we call it, you certainly seem to be putting forward reasons why your God is indistinguishable from a God that doesn't exist.
 

night912

Well-Known Member
Excuses. Excuses. Eggs. Eggs. And remember to tell someone that you are going to tell them a lie right before you lie to them about how you like what they've done to their hair.

Perhaps someone learned that from their illogic 101 class? :D
 
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