If God existed, would there be any atheists?

[blü 2]

I can usually count on atheists to be logical.
But there is one atheist I know from other forums who is drop dead illogical... He is the one who inspired this thread by saying that there would be no atheists if God existed because God would make sure there were no atheists.

Hmm ─ interesting point. I'd hardly be the first person to wonder why, if God is real, that hasn't happened already ─ for example, here.

 

[ChristineM]

So is faith, Ive had it with intolerance towards faith.

Well stop screwing up the language to suite your sensibilities.

If faith were based on fact or reality it would not be faith but evidenced knowledge

 

[ChristineM]

Fair enough. I never said that there was any proof of gods, there isn't any.

I was answering to the sentiment of the title and OP. To state a god exists then there surely you acknowledge that proof of that existence is paramount?

I certainly wouldn't accept existence of a god without proof

 

[Spirit of Light]

I fully agree, but an atheist I know says that if God existed God would make sure everyone knew......
So the fact that everyone does not know means that God does not exist.

Why would god not exist just because some Humans do not know of him?

 

[rational experiences]

Romans 1:20
For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse.

Clearly means, not burning gases.

Hebrews 2:14
Since therefore the children share in flesh and blood, he himself likewise partook of the same things, that through death he might destroy the one who has the power of death, that is, the devil,

Meaning if you used human intelligence God is the stone. We own bones in our body like God the stone. The devil causes burning light gases, so cold gases clear gases overcame the devil. Scientific relativity.

Matthew 16:16
Simon Peter replied, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God. Meaning God stone gases alight with light are the CH arose/risen gases.....for life.

For scientists who want the inference to gas light burning/alight life...…..
Mark 3:23
And he called them to him and said to them in parables, “How can Satan cast out Satan?

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Sorry, but everything you cannot verify is not irrational superstition.

I'm talking about magical and supernatural beliefs, off course.
I thought that was kind of obivous, considering the topic is beliefs in gods.

What if there was something real that we need to know that cannot be verified?

Then we wouldn't be able to know it, regardless of how important it would be to know it.

The past is gone and the future is not here yet. You have no way of knowing what the future holds.

But I can make informed guesses and predictions, based on knowledge of the past as well as the present.

There is no reason to think we cannot break out of the past.

There's also no reason to think that the future won't be a continuation of past trends, if all else stays the same.

There was a time when humans never knew of the scientific age, and could not envision it, now here we are.

I disagree.
People of the past clearly knew to some level that in the future we would have crazy technology, like flying machines etc.

And you know that how?

An informed prediction based on what I know about human psychology, tribalim tendencies, culture, what they believed in the past and how that developed and evolved into what is believed today.

I think it's a perfectly reasonable expectation that in the future, it won't be the case that ALL humans believe in one and the same god. The only way I see that happening, is in the unlikely event that the followers of that religion kill everybody else. And even then, I'ld think it's still quite likely that among them, there will be doubters and (closet) unbelievers. And also only a matter of time before that one religion starts splitting into different denominations. Eventually also the rise of completely new religions. Or the abbandonement thereof alltogether.

In fact, barring the kill-all-disbelievers scenario, I actually think it's also more likely that religion disappears completely rather then one religion being followed by all humans. And I find religion disappearing completely unlikely for the foreseeable future.

Are you the All-Knowing God?

Nope. Just a human who considers the data and draws a conclusion based on that data.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

And I was thinking about how atheists reject Messengers of God despite the fact that their behavior has no other logical explanation.

Yes, I know you are trying to make it look as if these are equivalents - but they are not.

There is no independently verifiable evidence for gods, which is why "faith" is required.
But there is independently verifiable evidence for evolution and spherical planets, which is why "faith" is not required.

So they are not equivalent.

Also, I have no clue what you are refering to with "...despite the fact that their behavior has no other logical explanation"

And there never will be any independently verifiable evidence for God

Then there will never be a rationally justified reason to believe that God exists.

because God is not a material entity that can be verified in the material world.

Then he is indistinguishable from a non-existant thing.
As the saying goes: The undetectable and the non-existant, look very much alike.

Why is it that atheists ask for what is impossible to procure whereas believers just accept God for what He is, unverifiable?

I'm not going to speak for other people, but this atheist is merely letting you know what his standard is for believing something / accepting something as "true".

I require independently verifiable evidence.
Independently verifiable evidence, is my standard by which I distinguish the existing from the non-existing with the best accuracy possible.

That you believe in something which by definition can never be shown to be real, which isn't testable or verifiable in any manner, wich isn't falsifiable... is not my "fault".

I'm letting you know that I have exactly zero reasons to believe a claim like that. Such claims are infinite in number. They are useless and more importantly: they are not a pathway to truth.

Chances are rather enormous that you'll only end up believing something false and virtually non-existing that you'ld be correct.

I require good evidence and whatever is not provable has to be taken on faith. I consider that reasonable.

I don't. I consider it reasonable to not believe those things that are unprovable, unsupportable, undefendable, unfalsifiable, unverifiable, untestable,...

iI never said that they did

Ok.
Then let's not pretend as if it is equally reasonable to believe demonstrable / supportable / provable claims as it is to believe undemonstrable / unsupportable / unprovable claims.

That would be quote impossible for God or the soul or the spiritual world to be verifiable since they are all immaterial.

Then how could you possible know them to be real?

How does the untestable, unverifable and unfalsifiable differ from the non-existant?

 

[Tiberius]

In my opinion it is, because nothing can withstand it. In other words, no evidence that exists that could ever live up to your expectations.

Lots of things have withstood that scrutiny.

I understand it. You never said God should, you simply presented an example of how if God interacted with this world it would leave verifiable evidence behind. But do you really think that would convince all atheists that God exists? I doubt it. There is something going on that you are unaware of thaty blocks your vision.

Would it convince ALL atheists? Of course not, for reasons which I explained in post 52.

But I can assure you that it would go a long way towards convincing me. Despite what you may think, I (and many other atheists) are not anti-God fanatics that will go out of their way to deny any and all evidence for God. When provided with good evidence for God, we will change our minds.

That does not help me if I do not know what mean by “evidence for God that is built on logical fallacies.” Would Messengers of God be evidence built upon a logical fallacy? If you think so, why do you think so and what is the fallacy?

Different arguments for God are based on different logical fallacies. If you give me an example of something you consider evidence for God, I will tell you the logical fallacy.

 

[Thief]

No. Just because Humans can make crop circles does not mean that there is some non-human explanation that was responsible for it before Humans started doing it.

and humans can scratch shallow ditches in the dirt
and from high above the ground work is a picture of some sort

hard to say how they knew what they were doing

 

[rational experiences]

If you asked why a human did a genetic reasoning of an occult attack by use of invention/machines and conversions....then reasoning about God is proven already.

22 Revelations and changes to Genetics proved that it had been converted/sacrificed, survived and was living saved, but living with new death, early age death, not the value of C 100 years to live and die.

Proof that Genetics living in 24 EVEN balances had been changed by 2.

Now first you would notate that the God theme ONE was male and man based...for he tells a HE story about how God the HE self caused a ground fission conversion and then he was given and IMAGE in the form of GOD.

O so pi in the Heavens, water on the face of the planet stone.....historically the seal, changed. And then G O D split its cell O pi that swirled in gases burning/being removed constantly by light burning presence O owned . the point of carbon, to change light into its fall from the higher soul O pi by G....and G rotation/swirling of the face of the deep gases/water in space reformed the O pi.

Science changed the light constant and it affected the ownership in human Genetics from 24 balances to 22 Revelations of radiation changes by PHI fall out....O split as 1000 value into D value 500, that remained cooling in the heavens.

O pi remained by value of change in science O into G back to O, split into D/D the other value fell to the ground D, cooled on the way down falling and fell O as PHI on the ground....removal x 2 he said.

That situation gave us mutative early age death. We still held 24 genetics, we simply were living mutated sacrificed so died earlier for the cell health had changed.

Which proved we had not lost our natural light....but a causation was proven.

And that causation then also proved how consciousness had changed in increased radiation, by loss of 2.....for the gases had been increased burning by the UFO dispersion....and males in science created light their own selves.

So stated I had copied forming of natural light. Yet natural light was pi O, not PHI O...they only caused fall out. By the Genetic teaching did prove that consciousness shifted by the 2.

Being equals male and female as Adam/Adam in the EVE upper atmospheric burning of even balances...the 2.

Now the 2 factually was only ever a scientific formula about MATHS and numbers.

One in natural history O God the stone fusion, fused by water massed flood historically in Sun UFO conversion, the UFO war attack on God, historically.

Humans lived as 2 humans. Yet only 1 human the male was the science inventor.

Hence he knew that 1 was only converted by the ground fission that his pyramid had caused...and we lived x 2 humans.

So he changed his ideals which is when he melted the stone, and we combusted and died in human life.

That history was known...and proof that science was prophetically warned about the recurrence, humans did in fact ready their lives to live underground in Turkey.

The stone was melted, and they had been prepared for it....and had taken all food and animal supplies and their human population under the ground awaiting the upper atmospheric changes.

Humans wrote their own evidence of surviving the ARK flood of Earth, and said that they had saved animal life and self by taking shelter.

If a human said why do humans believe in God....to a population who do not believe in God and either live in acute fear of God, or believe that no God exists?

I would state that human consciousness was so badly affected by God that was taken from its presence, and in its place the ALIEN/UFO fall out image that proof.

Why science believes in out of space cosmology theories about forces and laws of change that could only occur in a UFO attack upon the body/planet of earth and science seems to remember those events. And science keeps contemplating that human life came from out of space.....yet Earth was given more space in its owned atmosphere by the removal of CHRIST mass and the UFO presence in the Jesus Christ atmospheric mass sacrificed/removed.

So that unnatural cloud image and voices are heard as the Jesus statement said.

For if God still existed, as a healthy planet in a healthy environment then just maybe no a theist would disbelieve in God.

When males claim that MATH is a female evaluation theme...and then study Genetics and the God stone planet fusion and fission and then state, human Genetics as the basis of needing God radiation stone signals as life support were sacrificed, then they were proven sacrificed. And MATHS was used as that female term of reference to impose why Genetics relating to God fusion/fission changes caused life its mutations.

How a female reference is used inferring to mutative changes to Human Genetics, which owned no real female human comparison, it was discussing the genetics by science references to its MATHS and formulas for change to God as a stone body.

 

[halbhh]

If God existed, would there be any atheists?

This is a yes or no question, so please answer yes or no.

If you answer yes, please explain why there would still be atheists if God existed.

If you answer no, please explain why there would be no more atheists if God existed.

Thanks, Trailblazer

Yes, atheists arise because of some people discovering God, and others not yet, and some then not accepting God can exist since they personally haven't yet experienced.

 

[BilliardsBall]

If God existed, would there be any atheists?

This is a yes or no question, so please answer yes or no.

If you answer yes, please explain why there would still be atheists if God existed.

If you answer no, please explain why there would be no more atheists if God existed.

Thanks, Trailblazer

Yes.



God gives people free will to live in denial or acceptance, regarding most anything, really.

 

[Trailblazer]

Why would god not exist just because some Humans do not know of him?

Ask those atheists who believe that God should communicate directly with everyone in order to prove His existence to everyone....
Which is as much as saying -- "God, I order you to prove you exist" as if God is a short order cook.

Appeals to logic do not work with people like that.

 

[Trailblazer]

Hmm ─ interesting point. I'd hardly be the first person to wonder why, if God is real, that hasn't happened already ─ for example, here.

Thanks for sharing that.

I'd be the first person to wonder why God is obligated to prove he exists to everyone.... to some sincere souls like you maybe -- but not to everyone. It really boils down to sincerity and effort, and God well knows who is sincere and makes an effort. God will guide those people if they seek Him out... It might not happen overnight, but God admires tenacity and patience.

“Whoso maketh efforts for Us,” he shall enjoy the blessings conferred by the words: “In Our Ways shall We assuredly guide him.”” Gleanings, pp. 266-267

 

[Spirit of Light]

Ask those atheists who believe that God should communicate directly with everyone in order to prove His existence to everyone....
Which is as much as saying -- "God, I order you to prove you exist" as if God is a short order cook.

Appeals to logic do not work with people like that.

I am 100% sure a God would not let an atheist get the answer that easy when Even believers does not get that kind of " evidence" to back their faith

 

[Trailblazer]

To state a god exists then there surely you acknowledge that proof of that existence is paramount?

I certainly wouldn't accept existence of a god without proof

I believe there is good evidence, and that evidence is proof to me.
But I do not think we want to go around the evidence block again.

Of God's existence I have no doubt, what kind of God He is is another matter.

 

[Trailblazer]

I am 100% sure a God would not let an atheist get the answer that easy when Even believers does not get that kind of " evidence" to back their faith

Amanaki..... You are the best of the best.
You certainly understand how God operates.
I wish you could go tell my atheist friend.

 

[ChristineM]

I believe there is good evidence, and that evidence is proof to me.
But I do not think we want to go around the evidence block again.

Of God's existence I have no doubt, what kind of God He is is another matter.

Yes we have often discussed our different thresholds if evidence.

 

[Spirit of Light]

Amanaki..... You are the best of the best.
You certainly understand how God operates.
I wish you could go tell my atheist friend.

I tried to tell here in RF but of some strange reason atheists seem to disagree with me

 

[ChristineM]

I tried to tell here in RF but of some strange reason atheists seem to disagree with me

I wonder why? Do you think it could be lack of falsifiable evidence?