If God exists, is there a problem with offerings to other gods?

[firedragon]

If you are looking for scholarship that addresses why we see God being violent in the Bible, I can provide that for you.

Nope. Thats a false, dishonest claim that I am looking for "god being violent". Thanks for showing that. This is called a strawman.

Since you maybe in a hurry to just argue, I will cut and paste my statement for you to read once more, and not to do another strawman.

"can you provide some biblical scholarship to prove that YHWH is perfectly fine with anyone worshiping or making offerings to other Gods"?

 

[Hermit Philosopher]

Dear @thomas t

I actually misread your OP when I previously commented on it, sorry.

I still suspect that of more spiritual concern than a few, occasional physical offerings to some random concept of divinity, are the offerings (of time, energy, etc,) that Man so commonly makes to below types of “other gods”:

His personal heritage, ethnicity, roots.
His own name, reputation, status.
His physical attributes and personal talents.
His worldly ambitions and achievements.
His claims and possessions (to/of places, things and people) and his sense of attachment to them.
Etc...

The sacrifices Man makes to fulfil his own ego, are made at the expense of his relation to the entire world and everyone in it.

The time and effort Man wastes on “becoming” [whatever has got into his head at the time], distracts him from truly understanding that he in fact already is.
And what he already is, is all that will ever be left of him later.

More importantly; the sacrifices Man makes to fulfil his own ego, are his excuse for not remaining attentive to the needs of others, and offer him an almost bottomless source of distraction from his only opportunity to simply be a decent fellow human being.


Humbly
Hermit

 

[Windwalker]

Nope. Thats a false, dishonest claim that I am looking for "god being violent". Thanks for showing that. This is called a strawman.

No it is not a strawman. You misread what I said. I said no one is overlooking that we see God portrayed as violent in scripture. My post was addressing the question of "why" that is there, not that it does not say it.

I do not believe he denied the Bible contains images of a violent God. He simply said he does not believe God is that way. Neither do I. And the scholarship has to do with trying to understand why God is portrayed a petty, jealous, and violent in scripture.

Since you maybe in a hurry to just argue, I will cut and paste my statement for you to read once more, and not to do another strawman.

"can you provide some biblical scholarship to prove that YHWH is perfectly fine with anyone worshiping or making offerings to other Gods"?

I can provide some Biblical scholarship which shows that these imagines of God are reflections of human views of God, just a images of a loving God are too. It's in the link I provided.

 

[halbhh]

I think there is one.

This post is under the premise that God is real - I mean the Creator God as outlined in the Bible.
God gives ressources to a population out of love. If they use it for offerings to some gods that did not provide these things, it's wasting them, which would be impolite towards the (real) creator.

This is at least my stance on the matter.

My neighbors have a shrine. I don't know what god that is, however, I see it occupies:
- 1 m² of their location
- electricity, since there is constanly some light on it
- candles or similar
- there is even fruit on it - but I guess that they still eat it themselves, though, I might be wrong here.
- time. They diligently make this shrine look beautiful.
- time, as they need to go get the ingredients for that shrine.

So these are all resources stemming from the creator getting used for venerating some other god.

In the Hebrew Bible (Old Testament) the most intense problem/evil with offerings to other gods is that most of the significant ones seem eventually involve slaughtering innocent children as offerings to those false gods.

e.g.
Deuteronomy 12:31 You must not worship the LORD your God in this way, because they practice for their gods every abomination which the LORD hates. They even burn their sons and daughters in the fire as sacrifices to their gods.

This is the cause for the entire erasure of cities in Canaan where the culture was steeped in generations of ongoing child sacrifice, so that no trace of that culture was to remain as an influence on future generations of regional people. So, the evil in idol worship could at times be much more intense than only ordinary more commonplace evils.

 

[firedragon]

No it is not a strawman. You misread what I said. I said no one is overlooking that we see God portrayed as violent in scripture. My post was addressing the question of "why" that is there, not that it does not say it.

I do not believe he denied the Bible contains images of a violent God. He simply said he does not believe God is that way. Neither do I. And the scholarship has to do with trying to understand why God is portrayed a petty, jealous, and violent in scripture.


I can provide some Biblical scholarship which shows that these imagines of God are reflections of human views of God. It's in the link I provided.

Again, a strawman. Irrelevant. Please read twice and understand this sentence below. If you try hard, you might.

can you provide some biblical scholarship to prove that YHWH is perfectly fine with anyone worshiping or making offerings to other Gods"?

Do you really think that the God of the Bible is okay with humans worshiping other Gods? Really? Mate. This is monotheism. Not polytheism.

Absolutely absurd. Cheers.

 

[stvdv]

Really! So mate, could you please provide the university scholarship you gained on the Judaic God of the Tanakh having no issues with anyone with offering to other God's?

Thanks in advance.

I had to let go the "pictures" I said of kindergarten, the ones you pictured for me of the monstrous God in the first books

In Holland they give children a "Bible for Children", though very useful for me as a child, I never look back at that "Bible for Children"

All the Religions can lead you to the Highest Truth, maybe if you keep reading "Bible for Children" its sufficient too; after all its the same God

 

[stvdv]

I think you have just shown your character.

I just replied that I stopped reading "Bible for Children" where they picture God; like you did in your reply to me; I prefer deeper study; let go of pictures

You just basically claimed everyone else is kindergarten and you are at the university level. But you fail to see a logical fallacy when you are acting it. The fallacy of burden of proof is making a statement and expecting others to prove it wrong. Rather, why not act like who you claim you are and provide some university level scholarship of the Tanakh to show that the God of the Tanakh allowed offering to other Gods?

Your interpretation, and wrong. You replied to me with all verses picturing a horrible God; I don't believe in pictures of God; let it go long time ago

I think rather than trying to demean others and trying to show that you are Godly, you know others are kindergarten and you are varsity, why dont you simply provide evidence to your claim? Is not that a more grown up thing to do?

Please show your scholarship form the university while the kindergarten kids watch you in. Show the biblical scholarship to prove your claim.

I don't demean others.

But if you keep throwing pictures of a mean God at me, I reply that I left kindergarten = obsession with pictures of God AND throwing them at me. That is behavior children do at kindergarten, throw stuff at others.

 

[firedragon]

I had to let go the "pictures" I said of kindergarten, the ones you pictured for me of the monstrous God in the first books

In Holland they give children a "Bible for Children", though very useful for me as a child, I never look back at that "Bible for Children"

All the Religions can lead you to the Highest Truth, maybe if you keep reading "Bible for Children" its sufficient too; after all its the same God

Nope. Thats not relevant.

Provide some scholarship on the Bible where YHWH allows making offerings to other Gods/

 

[firedragon]

I just replied that I stopped reading "Bible for Children" where they picture God; like you did in your reply to me; I prefer deeper study; let go of pictures


Your interpretation, and wrong. You replied to me with all verses picturing a horrible God; I don't believe in pictures of God; let it go long time ago


I don't demean others.

But if you keep throwing pictures of a mean God at me, I reply that I left kindergarten = obsession with pictures of God AND throwing them at me. That is behavior children do at kindergarten, throw stuff at others.

Again, Provide some scholarship on the Bible where YHWH allows making offerings to other Gods.

 

[Windwalker]

Again, a strawman. Irrelevant. Please read twice and understand this sentence below. If you try hard, you might.

Maybe you are not trying hard enough to understand the responses?

But if you insist upon framing it in such a way as to box any answer into a corner of your own design (which is dishonest to do that), I'll take it as you present it and respond accordingly....

can you provide some biblical scholarship to prove that YHWH is perfectly fine with anyone worshiping or making offerings to other Gods"?

All scholarship is an interpretation of what the Bible presents. Yes, YHWH is presented as petty and jeolus. Yes. It's there.

That has nothing to do with whether God is actually like that or not. If you want to know what God is actually like, you don't rely upon your ideas about or interpretations of scripture. You have to actually experience the Divine itself.

When Paul points out about "thinking as a child", that proves my point right there. What we think about God, and what God is are two different things.

So when you say YHWH is and demands such and such, that is an interpretation of the texts by your thinking mind. And our thinking minds, according to the Apostle Paul (as well as anyone who's been around long enough) moves from thinking as a child, to thinking as an adult.

I understand those images of God, as the authors ideas of what God was and demands at that time in human history. I also see images of God in the same scriptures which portary him as the God of Universal Love, where the keeping of the rules and codes of the Mosaic law, are only devices for humans, and NOT requirements of God. (Romans 14).

So your framing of the question is dishonest. Of course it shows God as violent. It also shows him as loving and accepting off all who love him, regardless of what they name Him. (Romans 2). The Gentiles, non-Jews, non-YHWH'ist believers, are said to have the "Law written upon their hearts".

And Jesus said the Roman Centurion, a pagan, other-god worshiping "unsaved" unbeliever, had more faith than anyone in all of Israel. So right there, you see a contrast of views about God, within the same Bible.

Do you really think that the God of the Bible is okay with humans worshiping other Gods? Really? Mate. This is monotheism. Not polytheism.

If someone is worshiping God with their hearts, then that is what God looks at. Not what their ideas of God are. You may believe God is a man on a cloud in the sky, shooting bolts of lightening down to kill you if you stray off the path. God doesn't care if you've got that totally wrong. It's what your heart is reaching towards that matters. And that is scriptural: Romans 2; Romans 14, for starters.

Absolutely absurd. Cheers.

Only to your interpretation of God, perhaps.

 

[firedragon]

Maybe you are not trying hard enough to understand the responses?

But if you insist upon framing it in such a way as to box any answer into a corner of your own design (which is dishonest to do that), I'll take it as you present it and respond accordingly....


All scholarship is an interpretation of what the Bible presents. Yes, YHWH is presented as petty and jeolus. Yes. It's there.

That has nothing to do with whether God is actually like that or not. If you want to know what God is actually like, you don't rely upon your ideas about or interpretations of scripture. You have to actually experience the Divine itself.

When Paul points out about "thinking as a child", that proves my point right there. What we think about God, and what God is are two different things.

So when you say YHWH is and demands such and such, that is an interpretation of the texts by your thinking mind. And our thinking minds, according to the Apostle Paul (as well as anyone who's been around long enough) moves from thinking as a child, to thinking as an adult.

I understand those images of God, as the authors ideas of what God was and demands at that time in human history. I also see images of God in the same scriptures which portary him as the God of Universal Love, where the keeping of the rules and codes of the Mosaic law, are only devices for humans, and NOT requirements of God. (Romans 14).

So your framing of the question is dishonest. Of course it shows God as violent. It also shows him as loving and accepting off all who love him, regardless of what they name Him. (Romans 2). The Gentiles, non-Jews, non-YHWH'ist believers, are said to have the "Law written upon their hearts".

And Jesus said the Roman Centurion, a pagan, other-god worshiping "unsaved" unbeliever, had more faith than anyone in all of Israel. So right there, you see a contrast of views about God, within the same Bible.


If someone is worshiping God with their hearts, then that is what God looks at. Not what their ideas of God are. You may believe God is a man on a cloud in the sky, shooting bolts of lightening down to kill you if you stray off the path. God doesn't care if you've got that totally wrong. It's what your heart is reaching towards that matters. And that is scriptural: Romans 2; Romans 14, for starters.


Only to your interpretation of God, perhaps.

Absolutely irrelevant.

 

[Windwalker]

Absolutely irrelevant.

To you. Others need more relevant answers for themselves, which I provided.

 

[firedragon]

To you.

Of course to me. Lol.

 

[thomas t]

Is the point ONLY to ask whether we might think it impolite to such a god (assuming it exists)?

no no.
It's really asking if it is perfectly fine to venerate other gods under the premise that the Bible God is real.
There are countless posts saying it is... and that's exactly why I opened this thread up

See #10, #15, #19.... and I'm sure there are others.

#7 says it is not that bad to venerate some other god.

 

[Windwalker]

Of course to me. Lol.

To you, it disagrees with you, therefore irrelevant to you. You've made up your mind. God is what you believe God is. They are one and the same. Your beliefs about God, are God to you. That's not the way others may think about God though. Therefore my answers, to you are irrelevant. You don't entertain that which goes against what you believe. Other perspectives are irrelevant to you. That's clear.

 

[firedragon]

To you, it disagrees with you, therefore irrelevant to you. You've made up your mind. God is what you believe God is. They are one and the same. Your beliefs about God, are God to you. That's not the way others may think about God though.

Absolutely irrelevant.

 

[Windwalker]

Absolutely irrelevant.

Only to you, not to those who read these posts that don't think of God in those terms.

BTW, I gave you a few scriptures to support what I, and others are saying. You ignored those. Why? Are you not interested in understanding others points of view about God? Or only just your own veiws being the one true way for all to follow?

 

[thomas t]

If you tell someone you love them, and they don't love you in return, how do you feel? Anger? Rage? Violent? Then maybe that "love" was never about them, but was about you looking for something for yourself?

"I love you.... you love me too right? Right?? NO?? Then I hate you!!" What's that about?

I don't know.
However, God invested huge quantities of energy in the Israelites. It wasn't just the girl I met the other day and fell in love with. Jealousy is fine in the case of the Bible God, I think. This isn't childish, @A Vestigial Mote.
God invested and invested, the Israelites promised they would follow him, it didn't work out, and God was jealous. That's totally fine.

 

[Windwalker]

I don't know.
However, God invested huge quantities of energy in the Israelites. It wasn't just the girl I met the other day and fell in love with. Jealousy is fine in the case of the Bible God, I think. This isn't childish, @A Vestigial Mote.
God invested and invested, the Israelites promised they would follow him, it didn't work out, and God was jealous. That's totally fine.

If a man were to beat his wife bloody because she decided that she wanted to be with another person after spending 30 years living with him, is it a justifiable defense of his behavior that he had "invested huge quantities of energy" in that marriage, so she got what she deserved? Is that behavior fine, and not actually childish? I don't see it that way at all.

 

[thomas t]

Jealousy (and anger as you mentioned earlier) might be normal (though not admirable) in flawed mortals but why would you expect it to be normal for God?

because it's normal. Jesus was normal, in my view. Why shouldn't this reflect God? I see no contradiction here.