That is impossible. Omniscience and all pervading go hand in hand.
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If God is Omniscient, Isn't Everything Determined?
- Thread starter The Sum of Awe
- Start date
That is impossible. Omniscience and all pervading go hand in hand.
Why is it impossible? Knowing and doing are two separate things.
In some cases, yes. But in most cases, knowing that involves mind and a notion of doership is doing. Actions begin thus.
Basically He can choose not to know things or otherwise He's not omnipotent. His omniscience simply means He knows whatever His will wants to know. And by His omnipotence He may well choose not to know.
In a separation from God, He chooses not to know you. And things keep going in accordance to your own freewill when you are put in such a separation.
In a separation from God, He chooses not to know you. And things keep going in accordance to your own freewill when you are put in such a separation.
Or, rather can a perfect creation do anything other than what is right ?
God did not create angels or humans as robots or automatons.
Perfect creation was created as free moral agents or with moral freedom.
Satan did Not stand fast in God's truth.-John 8v44
As Adam although created perfect had physical limits [can't eat gravel and not suffer] So, too Satan was created with relative perfection.
Not absolute perfection. Going beyond God's boundaries exposed himself to ill effects. Misuse of free will caused himself to fall from perfection into imperfection.
Where does it say in Scripture that God knows everything ?
We do know that God says there will be a happy outcome, or happy climax to Revelation because Jesus will usher in global peace on earth starting with his 1000-year reign over earth.
But, if God were omniscient there would have been no need for God to intervene on Noah's behalf at the time of the Flood.
The Adam and Eve scenario would not have taken place.
And if foreknown why wait until one is dead to pass judgment ?
At Rev. [7v9] the people are un-numbered.
If all knowing then it would be a set or sealed number.
If God would have wiped out Adam and Eve before having children we would not be here. God's purpose [Gen 1v28] was that the descendants of Adam and Eve [us] populate the earth. So before God's takes action we needed to be born and decide whose rule do we think is best?
Shades-o-Blue
Member
It's OK, my friend; You're still a child of God, and I'm not giving up on ya
Do you worship trees, Copernicus? Your remarks have a whiff of contempt toward the human race.
It's funny, I took the phrase at its most positive value. It's interesting that you cling to the negative side of it. Are you a cynical kind of guy, Copernicus? I apologize for all the questions. Your brand of self deprecation has me somewhat intrigued.
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Copernicus
Industrial Strength Linguist
Let's see. I'm the atheist who subscribes to humanist principles. You are the Christian who believes that all humans are natural-born sinners in need of redemption.
And, while I do not worship trees, I have a lot of appreciation for living organisms that take in so much CO2 and emit oxygen as a waste product. If I had to worship anything, I would prefer worshiping trees to your god, and you wouldn't have to work very hard at all to convince me that trees exist.
Shades, you weren't paying attention. That phrase was uttered by a hypocrite in Shakespeare's play, but it has been widely quoted as wise advice by people who are unaware of its original significance--you, for example. Polonius was not true to others, nor even to himself. He was just making a self-serving remark.
That just means you have to have the thought before the act can occur. Omniscience would bring an interesting first thought before doing takes place.
idea
Question Everything
knowing something and causing it are two different things. (I can know what will be on TV tonight, but I did not cause it)
God did not create any evil - He is cleaning up a mess He did not create...
see old thread: http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/evolution-vs-creationism/87669-god-did-not-create-anything.html
Logically, it seems to me that whether or not there is a God, everything is determined. There are 2 factors that dictate everything that happens to us, our biological make-up, and our environment, neither of which we have any control over. Everything is all just cause and effect, a domino effect. You may feel like you are making choices, but prior experiences and your genetic make-up have made them for you. However, I do think it is beneficial when we're led to believe in personal responsibility, as this belief will most likely result in less suffering. Nobody is to blame for anything. But telling them that can have very negative consequences. Perhaps it's best if we believe in the illusion of free will.
idea
Question Everything
determinism and free will can both co-exist. Free will entails who determines it, not if it is determined.
My future might be set in stone - this is fine - but I believe that I am the one who sets it in stone, my choices, my actions, the nature of my spirit which controls who I was, who I am, and who I will be - this all comes from within me, determined by me, so I have free will (not just the illusion of free will)
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I don't understand the distinction. Even if I'm creating my own future, I'm creating it based entirely on stimuli out of my control. The nature of my spirit would also be determined by my biological make-up and everything I've experienced. I don't see where the freedom comes into play.
Seeing and thinking (and thus doing) are not at same hierarchy. Let us hear what you understand by transcendent.
Universal consciousness is about as far as I will take transcendence.
Knowing and being aren't.
They are verbs that represent two different "actions".
How so?
What is the difference between 'to be' and 'to know'. Being doesn't mean you have to be aware of it.
If there's no awareness of a thing, can anyone say it exists? And if they can say it genuinely exists, aren't they aware of it?
The difference between 'to be' and 'to know' is that one reguarly gets cast, through grammar, into realms where it doesn't belong.
Does a rock exist if the rock doesn't know it? Do humans have to be aware of the center of the universe for it to exist? Do people really have to exist for all the rest of the things to exist? Is this one of those tree falling sound riddles?