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If God is outside of time...

David T

David T

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
9-10ths_Penguin said:
I have no idea what you mean by "chronos." AFAIK, it's just the Greek word for time, but you're using it as if it's different and as if you expect me to know what that difference is.
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It's a distinct usage and a type of time in ancient Greek culture. There is another form of time expressed in context to chronos. So no you are wrong because you only have a single reference. Whiche is interesting in and of itself if you do y have reference then can you understand the term used? You can believe you do but you don't. You is a general term
9-10ths_Penguin said:
I have no idea what you mean by "chronos." AFAIK, it's just the Greek word for time, but you're using it as if it's different and as if you expect me to know what that difference is.
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I am not trying to be obtuse here. I could tell you but I am not sure that it would be understood. I discovered it first by spending a lot of time away from culture in the woods and forests of the oregon coast. I looked it up and found the ancient greeks had a term for it. So I would say that's the best way to understand it
 
Enoch07

Enoch07

It's all a sick freaking joke.
Premium Member
9-10ths_Penguin said:
Those of you who claim when it's convenient (e.g. when discussing the First Cause argument) that God is outside of time: do you ever pray for God to change the past?

This question was raised on the most recent Non Prophets podcast. They went a step further and claimed that theists who believe this generally don't pray for God to change the past the way they pray for God to change the future and pointed out that this doesn't seem to make sense.

If God is outside of time, seeing all moments in time together, then there would be no significant distinction between "past" and "future" to God; both would be equally fixed or equally changeable.

So do you believe that God is outside of time? If so, do you ever pray for God to change the past? If not, why not?
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I believe God exist outside of time. I do not pray for Him to change the past. I also don't pray to Him to change the future either. Anyone that thinks prayer is just a tool to ask for a favor, or to get something from God, has a childish understanding of prayer. Which explains why a group of atheist do not understand the concept and come up with such foolish ideas.
 
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Jeremiah Ames

Jeremiah Ames

Well-Known Member
9-10ths_Penguin said:
Those of you who claim when it's convenient (e.g. when discussing the First Cause argument) that God is outside of time: do you ever pray for God to change the past?

This question was raised on the most recent Non Prophets podcast. They went a step further and claimed that theists who believe this generally don't pray for God to change the past the way they pray for God to change the future and pointed out that this doesn't seem to make sense.

If God is outside of time, seeing all moments in time together, then there would be no significant distinction between "past" and "future" to God; both would be equally fixed or equally changeable.

So do you believe that God is outside of time? If so, do you ever pray for God to change the past? If not, why not?
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Wow, that was a great post. Makes one think.
 
Kelly of the Phoenix

Kelly of the Phoenix

Well-Known Member
9-10ths_Penguin said:
If so, do you ever pray for God to change the past? If not, why not?
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Anyone who lives a life like mine would know that asking for something better will probably get you something worse. I think God is the Twilight Zone, really. :p

Vouthon said:
“God is not bound by the limits of time, past or future. The prayers we offer… can be ‘answered’ by God long before they are actually said…The official prayers of the Church at Masses for the dead for example, repeatedly imply (by praying for ‘forgiveness’ and so on) an extension of that prayer back to that person’s time on earth and his or her preparations for death.”
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But is that necessary? When a person is in jail, they can get the bond paid, right? Not everyone has to stay until death. If I pray for the soul of someone in hell, doesn't God just send a cab for them or something? :)

Terese said:
. Why? I find it selfish to ask God to cater to me for my needs, even though he would. Also changing the past would be greatly counter-intuitive to our development as people, spiritually and mentally.
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Also, you never know how changing even something insignificant for you might be rewarding or catastrophic for someone else.

syo said:
because past is a concrete reality, whereas future is highly flexible.
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Though maybe not as flexible as we think, because in the future, we'd see the future had to end up that way.

ChristineM said:
It is my experience and understanding that Christians in particular use timelessness as an apologetic.
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Agreed. It's like, if God is truly timeless, He'd be a picture. Even if a thousand years for us is a day for Him, He's still experiencing time. It's like in scifi when different aliens must agree on a standardized time frame. A year for Earth is not the same thing as a year for Mercury or for Neptune. There would have be an arbitrary (and in the case of most scifi, highly anthropocentric) definition for different time units.
 
Terese

Terese

Mangalam Pundarikakshah
Staff member
Premium Member
BSM1 said:
Wouldn't this be kinda up to you?
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No, it is up to God :) God is the independent controller of everything, and that we are not. We are a leaf in the wind, not controlling where the wind takes us, though we could swerve a little through free will :D
 
BSM1

BSM1

What? Me worry?
Terese said:
No, it is up to God :) God is the independent controller of everything, and that we are not. We are a leaf in the wind, not controlling where the wind takes us, though we could swerve a little through free will :D
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Then why bother to ask for anything? Why don't just assume the best will happen?
 
Grandliseur

Grandliseur

Well-Known Member
A Vestigial Mote said:
being changed. That would be ALL of our brains... every single human being. Perhaps this is no big deal to God
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It seems he recorded a moment when he did this to most human being that existed at the time, perhaps between 5000 to 10000, or less, when he changed the languages of all in a moment in Babylon, except for the family that were to become the Jews, it appears.

While I don't question his abilities, I do know he works within the physics he has made to work in our reality. That this is so beyond what we can conceive is another matter.
 
F

Faithofchristian

Well-Known Member
Whether it be humans or animals were held captive by Time. There's No escape from Time.

Time as No Hold on God and the Angels,
God and the Angels are all in another dimension than we are.

Take the air and wind, For us we can not see the air or wind, But we can feel the air and wind, because the air and wind are in another dimension than us.

But as for God and the Angels being in the same dimension?
 
Apologes

Apologes

Active Member
Seeing how Christians ought to believe all that happens is a part of God's plan, it would be odd for them to ask God to change what He eternally provided.
 
9-10ths_Penguin

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
Apologes said:
Seeing how Christians ought to believe all that happens is a part of God's plan, it would be odd for them to ask God to change what He eternally provided.
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... yet many do.

But those who do tend only to ask God for changes from the present forward into the future; very rarely backward into the past.
 
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