If God probably don't exist!

[StarryNightshade]

I was watching The Deen Show yesterday when a Religious scholar said, if Atheist are correct and there is probably no God in existence, then as Atheist die, we will die. there is no problem for us.
But if we are correct, then they are doomed.
In both cases, we are on safe side
and i think he was making sense.

Oh, hello Pascal's Wager...haven't seen you in a while.

 

[Farrukh]

You still might burn in hell for not accepting Jesus as your lord and savior.

when I pray, I say, "oh my Creator"
if that creator is also creator of Jesus, i'm safe, and if that creator is Jesus himself, I'm still safe.

 

[LuisDantas]

no, it is eternal punishment of hell.

Do you truly think any god worth of respect would doom atheists in that way?

I sure don't.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

when I pray, I say, "oh my Creator"
if that creator is also creator of Jesus, i'm safe, and if that creator is Jesus himself, I'm still safe.

There are many conservative Christians who do not believe that Muslims worship the same god as Christians and view Muhammad as a false prophet. They say that the only way to go to heaven is through Jesus. So you would be going to hell. Also, depending on which sect you're a part of, you still might be going to hell. Sunni Muslims don't like Shia Muslims and Sufis are viewed as heretics. The Catholic Church views itself as the one true church (although it has developed friendlier views towards fellow Trinitarians), JWs think that all other Christian sects and other religions are all basically Satanic and their followers will be annihilated, other sects teach that all except for them are going to burn in hell, etc.

So there's no point in playing this game. No matter what religion or sect you're a part of, some other sect or religion thinks you're going to hell or at least won't be joining them in their heavenly exclusivist fanclub.

It's not enough to say that you worship god.

 

[Badran]

for example?

People can do things ranging from relatively small things like performing rituals (like praying five times a day) to killing other people or taking part in wars based on some of the premises of their beliefs (even kill themselves). Between those extremes, there are various impositions on one's self and others that people can engage in for the same motive and based on the same mindset, and it can make some substantial difference in regards to someone's life, how much happiness they obtain, what kind of experiences they take a part in, and what they might do for others around them.

Accepting a possibility of an extremely negative scenario (hell), and then forming one's life around that regardless of it's plausibility, based on reasoning like that shared in your OP, fails to note that if you're wrong then this life might have been all you got, and you might have made quite a mess of it, and even possibly wasted it entirely, without getting anyway near what you could have gotten from it and afforded to others if you did not think that it's reasonable to orient your life around such a scenario just in case it's true.

 

[Farrukh]

There are many conservative Christians who do not believe that Muslims worship the same god as Christians and view Muhammad as a false prophet. They say that the only way to go to heaven is through Jesus. So you would be going to hell. Also, depending on which sect you're a part of, you still might be going to hell. Sunni Muslims don't like Shia Muslims and Sufis are viewed as heretics. The Catholic Church views itself as the one true church (although it has developed friendlier views towards fellow Trinitarians), JWs think that all other Christian sects and other religions are all basically Satanic and their followers will be annihilated, other sects teach that all except for them are going to burn in hell, etc.

So there's no point in playing this game. No matter what religion or sect you're a part of, some other sect or religion thinks you're going to hell or at least won't be joining them in their heavenly exclusivist fanclub.

It's not enough to say that you worship god.

I haven't found anything bad with teachings of our religion. people may be doing wrong, no one is perfect. I prefer to study religion and not sunni or shia.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

I haven't found anything bad with teachings of our religion. people may be doing wrong, no one is perfect. I prefer to study religion and not sunni or shia.

That's not the point. My point is, just as you believe that atheists are going to hell, there's others who believe Muslims are going to hell. You can't really know who's correct. So your whole argument is a failure.

 

[psychoslice]

For me personally there is no such thing as a god, when we die, that's it, we die, why be so greedy and want to live for ever, you had your chance to live this life to its fullest.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

For me personally there is no such thing as a god, when we die, that's it, we die, why be so greedy and want to live for ever, you had your chance to live this life to its fullest.

Except if you died as an infant or child. They certainly didn't get any chance. But that's another topic.

 

[psychoslice]

Except if you died as an infant or child. They certainly didn't get any chance. But that's another topic.

That's all part of life, the good comes with the so called bad, well that's what we have labelled it as.

 

[Badran]

So an atheist would be

a·the·ist (ā′thē-ĭst)n. One who disbelieves or denies the existence of God or gods.

​

Not one who says there's a "Very low probability, but short of zero." BUT One who disbelieves or denies the existence of God or gods.

Also not one who says "There is no god(s)", but rather "I do not believe in god(s)", or, "I can not believe in god(s)".

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

That's all part of life, the good comes with the so called bad, well that's what we have labelled it as.

I'm just saying that it's not necessarily greedy to want to live forever. It's easy to call that "greedy" from a comfy middle-class first world perspective. The notion of living a short life full of suffering and pain due to afflictions such as malnourishment and treatable disease, as millions of infants and children around the world do and then dying, as thousands of them do each day, with that being their only shot at life, is a horrendously cruel thought. It's as if they just didn't matter at all. Which is why I believe in eternal cycles of reincarnation, out of empathy if anything else. Otherwise, this world is just far too cruel for me and we might as will just kill ourselves since nothing matters and we certainly don't matter.

 

[Penumbra]

Thing is, atheists don't say "there is probably no God,"but rather "there is no god."

And just what is a theist?

theist (ˈθiːɪst)
n
1. (Theology) a person who believes in the doctrine of theism (the·ism: n.Belief in the existence of a god or gods, especially belief in a personal God as creator and ruler of the world.)

2. (Theology) a person who believes in the existence of God or g
​

So an atheist would be

a·the·ist (ā′thē-ĭst)n. One who disbelieves or denies the existence of God or gods.

​

Not one who says there's a "Very low probability, but short of zero." BUT One who disbelieves or denies the existence of God or gods.


And I say this is exactly what it is. Disagree? Fine, but I stand by my characterization.

Please don't do this. Please don't recharacterize my comment as something else. Of course few atheists will say that they can fully falsify all god concepts, because this is not the basis of atheism. But rather go into the why's---I'm getting a bit tired right now--- I'll let you figure it out

Yup.

This is easy.

And it's easy because all that it takes is to not tell other people what they believe or what they say. This disagreement ceases to exist the second you stop doing that.

As you pointed out, there's a definition of theism about the belief in the existence of gods, and then there's the prefix "a", which in this context means a cancelling out of that word. It means, "not" or "without" or "lack". To disbelieve or deny theism. Not being a theist. A cancellation. Very simple, and yet rather broad because it's so simple.

Etymology

New Latin, from Ancient Greek [script?] (a-, “not, without”)
Prefix

a-

1. Used to form taxonomic names indicating a lack of some feature that might be expected

Here.

Anything added on to that is baggage that isn't in the word itself. If people want to start applying levels of certainty to their own personal atheism, if they want to phrase it certain ways like, "there is no god" or "there probably is no god", then that's their right because it's entirely within the very elegant scope of the very broad lack of theism.

I'm an atheist and I disagree with what you are saying atheists will say. Richard Dawkins contributed money to a bus campaign to say exactly what you said atheists don't say. The founder of that bus campaign, Ariane Sherine, called it the "Atheist Bus Campaign" and used the word "probably". So here are multiple examples of atheists saying something other than what you say that they say. And they're right because that's what the word means; it's broadly inclusive of the way they're using it.

So why not stop doing that?

 

[Farrukh]

People can do things ranging from relatively small things like performing rituals (like praying five times a day) to killing other people or taking part in wars based on some of the premises of their beliefs (even kill themselves). Between those extremes, there are various impositions on one's self and others that people can engage in for the same motive and based on the same mindset, and it can make some substantial difference in regards to someone's life, how much happiness they obtain, what kind of experiences they take a part in, and what they might do for others around them.

five times Salah keeps us healthy, people translate Salah as prayer but prayer is different from Salah.
killing is never allowed in religion
"Because of that, We decreed upon the Children of Israel that whoever kills a soul unless for a soul or for corruption [done] in the land - it is as if he had slain mankind entirely"......Quran 5:32

and as I said, human beings are not perfect, they commit sins. what you say about Ivan Lopez who killed 4 soldiers and injured 16. he wasn't a religious guy.

 

[psychoslice]

I'm just saying that it's not necessarily greedy to want to live forever. It's easy to call that "greedy" from a comfy middle-class first world perspective. The notion of living a short life full of suffering and pain due to afflictions such as malnourishment and treatable disease, as millions of infants and children around the world do and then dying, as thousands of them do each day, with that being their only shot at life, is a horrendously cruel thought. It's as if they just didn't matter at all. Which is why I believe in eternal cycles of reincarnation, out of empathy if anything else.

But do you believe that because it makes you feel better, I'm just stating what is, no emotion attached.

 

[Badran]

why be so greedy and want to live for ever, you had your chance to live this life to its fullest.

That's all part of life, the good comes with the so called bad, well that's what we have labelled it as.

So then a part of life is also not getting a chance to "live this life to it's fullest", as you've asserted.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

But do you believe that because it makes you feel better, I'm just stating what is, no emotion attached.

Of course there was emotion attached to what you said, since you made a value judgment. You said it's "greedy" to wish to survive brain death. I'm just saying that I see that as somewhat callous because only a very few people ever get the chance to "live life to the fullest". The vast majority of human beings on this planet are toiling away in abject poverty and are subject to being afflicted by diseases and conditions that are relatively unheard of in the privileged first world nations. So it's really no wonder why religious devotion is highest among the poorest nations and lowest among the richest nations (America excepted, because we're an aberration). If everyday life is pretty much hell, it's only sensible that you will look forward to a better life after you die.

But it's not only that, but because that's what makes the most sense to me from my learning and experience. The idea of ceasing to exist after physical death never made any sense to me.

 

[psychoslice]

So then a part of life is also not getting a chance to "live this life to it's fullest", as you've asserted.

Yes actually, its us who add all the emotion to what happens in life, its no different than you walking over an ants nest, and killing 50 or more ants on those steppes, we are no better than the ants.

 

[psychoslice]

Of course there was emotion attached to what you said, since you made a value judgment. You said it's "greedy" to wish to survive brain death. I'm just saying that I see that as somewhat callous because only a very few people ever get the chance to "live life to the fullest".

But it's not only that, but because that's what makes the most sense to me from my learning and experience. The idea of ceasing to exist after physical death never made any sense to me.

And that's the problem, you cannot see beyond your belief, only because your belief gives you comfort.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

And that's the problem, you cannot see beyond your belief, only because your belief gives you comfort.

Read my edit.

Hopefully we all have beliefs and things in life that give us comfort, otherwise there's no reason not to put a gun in your mouth.