If god was female

[Brickjectivity]

If god had been created as a female by the authors of the Bible instead of a male, would women have been treated very differently over the centuries?

Wisdom is portrayed as a woman in the Bible. Gods are not good things in it.

In my opinion....men were considered to be superior to the female.

In the ancient world women had poor hygiene, terrible menstrual pain and deadly childbirths, but they were not inferior. They were important in the Bible. In the laws men were required to teach their own children and observe that women had rights. I doubt that you could come up with a better arrangement if you left here and traveled back in time. In that age you would have been stuck with the same scenario, and you probably would not have been able to come up with anything better. I think the facts bear out that you simply have not really thought about the situation and are making blind jabs.

 

[Electus de Lumine]

There was a time in my youth that i studied the language but much of what i learned is lost to neglect.
Thankfully, the knowledge is now at my finger tips.

Please look at what gender is used to address Yahweh and the angels rather than feminine or gender-neutral terms.

My personal experience leads me to believe that all angels are masculine rather than feminine, hence why I invoke Lilith for feminine magic, but personal anecdotes is not substitute for evidence.

 

[allfoak]

Please look at what gender is used to address Yahweh and the angels rather than feminine or gender-neutral terms.

My personal experience leads me to believe that all angels are masculine rather than feminine, hence why I invoke Lilith for feminine magic, but personal anecdotes is not substitute for evidence.

I do not invoke angels or Lilith, nor do i have the disdain for Yahweh that you have, so it is difficult for me to understand your experience.

 

[Thief]

if God turns out to be female......OH YEAH!

 

[Windwalker]

If god had been created as a female by the authors of the Bible instead of a male, would women have been treated very differently over the centuries?

If the authors had written God as female, then it likely would have been a matriarchal society and so the roles of women would naturally have been different. I'd be careful however to assume that the society became patriarchal because of how God is spoken of. You don't just have some guys saying, "Let's subjugate women, so let's make God a male. That ought to do the trick!". I can't agree with that.

In my opinion, god was only given the male gender because in the ancient world men were considered to be superior to the female.

I wouldn't be so quick to assume that patriarchal societies are what they are because they are based on oppressing women.

If any god does exist it is more likely to be genderless.

Of course. How does "Spirit" have a gender?

Women featured in the Bible aren't treated well on the whole, but as reproductive machines for the most part.

Actually, one of my first forum posts ages ago somewhere else was about how that many of the laws you see in the Bible were actually advances in protecting women. It was actually advances in their rights. Even though those standards may seem primitive to us today, comparatively speaking it was on an upward trajectory. If you look at these things contextually to the primitive cultures that developed these, compared to surrounding cultures it was better. The laws were to protect women from the warrior mentality that thinks it can just take what it wants by force, including women. It may seem a trivial thing compared to today, but small steps are huge steps evolutionarily speaking.

Whilst most Christian women these days demand to be treated as equal to men, more extreme male members of the faith still expect them to be subservient to their wishes using the Bible as an excuse.

Actually, this is not true. There are more than quite a few that like that arrangement. The traditional roles are safe and familiar to them, and they feel they benefit from them. Why do you think so many women vote for conservatives in politics? We'd like to think this is because they're either ignorant or being lied to, but I think it's a little more basic than that. It's an order that they know and it serves them in how they choose to live.

Now don't get me wrong, I'm more than for equal rights myself across the board. I'm not a traditionalist at all. I'm all for progressive advances in all these things, for those who don't wish to be force-fit into those roles that don't fit them. Through this movement of progressive and conservative tug of wars, evolution on the whole begins to take hold and is established. But that evolution is a process, and my point in looking at these things is to understand what you see historically in this context.

I don't buy into the whole "Let's oppress women and create a system towards that specific end" as the driving force behind things. It's a whole lot more complex than that. Does oppression happen in these patriarchal dominator hierarchies? Yes, of course. That is part of the system trying to keep itself intact, saying to progressive ideas to stay put and not move, as they are seen as threats to the stability of the current system. But evolution moves nonetheless against that and a great deal of pain and conflict is the result of that action, as we can see in all our wars, cultural wars included. As I said it's a lot more complex than just men dominating women. Women willingly participate in that system as well, against other women who fight for these changes.

Is there anyone on this forum who thinks men and women should stay trapped in the traditional roles society and religion had placed upon them?

I believe in freedom. Some who want to stay in those systems don't feel trapped. They are free to consider it home for themselves. If they do however feel trapped, then they should be free to fight that system from within, or leave that system. This is what a free society should be. I'm for advances, and I'm for choices.

 

[allfoak]

if God turns out to be female......OH YEAH!

Don't ya feel the Spirit @Thief?

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

You never know, one day men might evolve enough to become pregnant!

Transsexual men can. If I go off my testosterone and my cycle starts again, I can get pregnant. Trans men have done it before.

 

[Deathbydefault]

If god had been created as a female by the authors of the Bible instead of a male, would women have been treated very differently over the centuries? In my opinion, god was only given the male gender because in the ancient world men were considered to be superior to the female.

If any god does exist it is more likely to be genderless.

If you use normal logic, it would be something of a given for a god of creation to be portrayed as a woman.
But since when did normal logic apply to gods?

It would indeed make the most sense for a god to be genderless, especially if it's a singular god.

Women featured in the Bible aren't treated well on the whole, but as reproductive machines for the most part. Solomon's many concubines obviously played a big part in keeping his dangly bits busy! Did they do it willingly, or more likely did they have no say in the matter? Whilst most Christian women these days demand to be treated as equal to men, more extreme male members of the faith still expect them to be subservient to their wishes using the Bible as an excuse.

The key to fighting obedience is by utilizing disobedience.

There is very little woman can't do that men can, and visa versa. You never know, one day men might evolve enough to become pregnant!

Is there anyone on this forum who thinks men and women should stay trapped in the traditional roles society and religion had placed upon them?

Equal rights and fair treatment for all, because that's what makes the most sense.

 

[illykitty]

Give me traditional any day....at least kids knew who their parents were. They knew what a family was and parents knew what their children were up to most of the time. There were values and trust in a community that looked out for one another....that is all but gone now. I hate what this world has become....freedom is greatly overrated IMO.

However you run into problems when a person doesn't fit that cookie cutter. We're individuals. I dislike an imposed conformity, it's unfair to those that don't fit into what you personally want.

I value the freedom to chose for oneself what one wants. It is better for everyone to be honest about themselves and find something that fits. However, the problem nowadays is that in a lot of cases, you need two salaries because you can't live off one. That's probably what I'd change about this society (to start with), so that more people have the option to stay at home if that's what makes them feel fulfilled or that two salaries would actually be an advantage.

---

As for the OP, @JJ50 - I'm not sure if it would make a difference. Older pagan religions had female deities and yet they weren't necessarily treated better. It varied from place to place. Compare Spartans, Egyptians, Greeks and Romans, as an example. I think what matters more is the culture/society and what the religion says.

I mean, what if the supreme God was female, but the exact same things were written in the Bible? I don't think it wouldn't make a difference. But what if the book said men and women are equals, each individual is free to chose what they want and that women can be the head of the family... Now that would be different! You wouldn't have excuses anymore.

 

[David T]

So there are two creators?

One orgasm... . well if your good

 

[Thief]

Don't ya feel the Spirit @Thief?

not yet......but I'm gonna

 

[David T]

Well according to the bible Mary Magdalene is the founder of Christianity. That gets some church folk males panties in a bunch. So gender dominance of the question is God male or female is more ego than anything. A very interesting topic though because it asks what is femalemale, malefemale, male female, female male!! Apparently it's based on spacing in text messages somehow!!! That sucks can't create spaces in this text large enough to express. It's dominated by patriarchal programmers damn them!!!

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Yes and no.
There is one who generates (male) and one who receives (female).
It is the Female aspect however that broods over the waters and does the actual work of creating.
The male did his work by and so he rests, waiting for his children to be weened and come home.

Wiccan?

 

[allfoak]

Wiccan?

I don't know, is it?

 

[Kelly of the Phoenix]

If god had been created as a female by the authors of the Bible instead of a male, would women have been treated very differently over the centuries?

Not much. Yahweh was married to Asherah, confirmed by archaeology, but the bible does its best to downplay that fact.

She was valued more than corals.....which in Bible times was more precious than gold.

Yes, that's why everyone wore coral jewelry and coral decorations were in the temple and ... no, wait, that was gold ...

After the fall in Eden, women were to be subjected to their husbands.

So, it wasn't part of the perfect world, then.

Abraham and Sarah for example.....she respected her husband as head of the family, but when she had concerns, she voiced them.....but never disrespectfully.

Please. Sarah was a shrew. I would've dumped her for Hagar.

Understanding concubinage in Bible times, ensured that a woman had a home and family that cared for her. The menfolk did not live to a great age after the flood, so women were sometimes short on husbands.

So, give women rights and solve the problem, then.

Women were Solomon's undoing. The Israelites were warned not to take foreign wives because of inevitable religious compromise....and that is exactly what happened. Solomon died alienated from his God because of false worship that was introduced by his foreign wives.

Solomon only married those women, though, for political perks. THAT'S where Solomon miscalculated somewhere.

He was patient and kind and even when he had cause to complain, he never berated them or belittled them. He treated them as his close friends and companions.

He said the apostles were stupid dolts who still didn't understand him after spending such a long time with him.

Not unless they want to please the God who set the rules.

Did you have children? Did you use pain-killers? Being in nearly life-ending agony was part of the punishment too, but we invented sedatives and narcotics. In fact, nearly every punishment has a workaround.

The traditional roles worked quite well in the old days when families actually ate dinner together and spoke to one another....women stayed home to raise the babies.

While her husband was out "at work" making more...

Mom looked after the home and Dad earned a living so that they had food on the table and a pleasant home environment to live in.

I thought Leave It to Beaver was stupid.

Gee willikers, everyone, weren't the 50s grand?

Look again.....they might have a lot materially, but they are more miserable and isolated than they have ever been. Depression is sweeping the world like a plague.

Why did Prohibition start in the US in the first place, because everyone was just so garsh darn happy?

Give me traditional any day....at least kids knew who their parents were.

That's because DNA testing hadn't been invented yet.

If God was a female, men would still have to bait womens' hooks, it's just the nature of things.

And we could still laugh at men trying to change diapers without barfing all over the baby. Oh well.

In the laws men were required to teach their own children and observe that women had rights. I doubt that you could come up with a better arrangement if you left here and traveled back in time. In that age you would have been stuck with the same scenario, and you probably would not have been able to come up with anything better.

You're right. As a gentile woman who doesn't want to be enslaved by men, I wouldn't live past sunset....

if God turns out to be female......OH YEAH!

Goddesses in the Canaanite mythology (where we get Yahweh and El to begin with) were ... dangerous. I think they might be more violent than Hera, and she was definitely someone you didn't screw with.

Actually, one of my first forum posts ages ago somewhere else was about how that many of the laws you see in the Bible were actually advances in protecting women.

How so? They supposedly left Egypt, which was pretty much as close to a gold standard as you were going to get. Women there had far more rights than Hebrew women.

The laws were to protect women from the warrior mentality that thinks it can just take what it wants by force, including women.

The bible specifically has stories where God tells the warriors to take women by force.

Why do you think so many women vote for conservatives in politics? We'd like to think this is because they're either ignorant or being lied to, but I think it's a little more basic than that. It's an order that they know and it serves them in how they choose to live.

It's stockholm syndrome. Voting to be enslaved is not admirable.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

I don't know, is it?

I know they believe in a male/female duality creator concept. Some say the sun is the male and moon (or earth) is female. Everything happens in twos. Of course, like Christianity, no one believes the same thing.

I'd think that the creator being female didn't create like having sex but "create" in that she gave-birth to creation. Males can't give birth to children. I can't imagine two creators having sex to create the universe.

Sounds funky to me.

 

[allfoak]

I know they believe in a male/female duality creator concept. Some say the sun is the male and moon (or earth) is female. Everything happens in twos. Of course, like Christianity, no one believes the same thing.

I'd think that the creator being female didn't create like having sex but "create" in that she gave-birth to creation. Males can't give birth to children. I can't imagine two creators having sex to create the universe.

Sounds funky to me.

The are two but they are also one.

 

[Thief]

so a female god might be dangerous?

what we hold as Almighty Male is dangerous....no doubt

A female god is not one to screw with?........hmmmmmm

 

[DragonHawk1959]

If god had been created as a female by the authors of the Bible instead of a male, would women have been treated very differently over the centuries? In my opinion, god was only given the male gender because in the ancient world men were considered to be superior to the female.

If any god does exist it is more likely to be genderless.

Women featured in the Bible aren't treated well on the whole, but as reproductive machines for the most part. Solomon's many concubines obviously played a big part in keeping his dangly bits busy! Did they do it willingly, or more likely did they have no say in the matter? Whilst most Christian women these days demand to be treated as equal to men, more extreme male members of the faith still expect them to be subservient to their wishes using the Bible as an excuse.

There is very little woman can't do that men can, and visa versa. You never know, one day men might evolve enough to become pregnant!

Is there anyone on this forum who thinks men and women should stay trapped in the traditional roles society and religion had placed upon them?

Men would still have found an excuse. Whatever their initial role in a society, Goddesses tend to get relegated to female fertility / fecundity.
In the early Hebrew belief system Yahweh had a wife (Ashera). And her role was high enough that she was worshipped alongside him in many temples. Now only a few have even heard of her.
Then there's Eostara (from whom we get the holiday Easter). We still celebrate her feast day, but she is nearly forgotten.

 

[DragonHawk1959]

The are two but they are also one.

In some ancient belief systems the sun was seen as female, and the earth and moon as male.