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If Jesus is God why doesn't the Bible say so?

meghanwaterlillies

Well-Known Member
I don't know how you can say, " No there are plenty of verses that say he is God."

I literally quoted most and listed the rest of the verses used to claim this and accurately explained how they do not prove he IS God, but that he is NOT.

I also included the words of Jesus DENYING that he is God.

I think you missed something.

I also transliterated John 1, the most popular "proof" and showed how Ton theon is used for God, the lesser theos, for the Word.

Any attempts to dispute these facts are mere sophistry.
If you put them up all the references to Jesus up even to the ones that don't say he is God including where he was referenced as an animal which is likely where they harmed society or via extra things angels and such because it could not heal them; you can literally see where and when the perspective happened.
 

SethZaddik

Active Member
What it comes down to is some very simple facts that people who believe Jesus (p) is God ignore, dismiss or distract from with long winded rants using sophistry and other ploys.

1. The Bible never says the Messiah that was fulfilled by Jesus (p) according to certain prophecies that he was to be God. Isaiah and the non virgin prophecy of Immanuel actually applied to Cyrus and never had the word virgin in it until a mistranslation in LXX occurred. Immanuel doesn't mean literally that person is God with us anymore than other names ending in El or Yah make that person God for a different reasons based on the meaning of their name and nobody ever CALLED Jesus that anyway, Matthew has issues.

So the Bible doesn't say the Messiah is God or was supposed to be God.

2. The Messiah outright denies being God and equality with, no equality, no equal Gods 3 in 1.

The Nicene Creed is responsible for the Catholic Trinity doctrine that Protestants and most Christians believe in.

It is the tradition of men, like several of the earlier Pharisees were rebuked for having let them supercede the words of the Bible.

3. Every single instance used as "proof" that Jesus is God is used deceptively and its meaning altered to fit the Nicene Creed using sophistry and outright lies.

4. Translation is a tool for deception as in the case of John 1.

5. "Scholars" are on board with the deception and scholars who hold views counter to Orthodoxy are slandered and attacked, ridiculed or if really good like R. Eisenman, ignored outside academia.

There are plenty of honest scholars but they are always attacked by fanatical fundamentalists, who are not usually so honest.

They are outnumbered by scholars willing to confirm whatever the churches want and believed by the majority.
 

SethZaddik

Active Member
If you put them up all the references to Jesus up even to the ones that don't say he is God including where he was referenced as an animal which is likely where they harmed society or via extra things angels and such because it could not heal them; you can literally see where and when the perspective happened.


I already did what you are asking me to do, see the OP, all my comments.
 

SethZaddik

Active Member
Anyone who thinks asking me to provide evidence that I already did and in the OP at that is a good strategy is wasting time.

What I said I did, I did, I didn't just say I did it without already having done it. I can only deduce you didn't read the OP where I quoted all instances in the Gospels where people claim is proof that Jesus is God, showed exactly how they didn't and proved the opposite.

And then I quoted all but 3 instances of Jesus flat out denying that he is God, denying independent power and equality, and cited the 3 I didn't quote.

I also mentioned it is obvious that if Jesus (p) is a High Priest according to the order of Melchizedek, he is a High Priest of GOD.

And that God has never been a Priest of any sort, Priests exist to SERVE God, and can't be God.

Sophistry is the only way around such overwhelming proof that the Bible and Jesus (p) do not say he is God.
 

RESOLUTION

Active Member
Yes it does.

No it doesn't.
Jesus (p) is no more a son of God than David, another Messiah.

King David was not the Messiah and Jesus is a Son of God. To be begotten means :
verb (used with object), begot or (Archaic) begat; begotten orbegot; begetting.
1.
(especially of a male parent) to procreate or generate (offspring).
2.
to cause; produce as an effect:
a belief that power begets power.

Jesus like Adam were both begotten of God in a way no other sons were.

You have lost every argument so far.


David is called begotten by God.

"You are my son, this day I have BEGOTTEN you."

Is said BY God TO David. (Psalm 2:7 NRSV)


Psalm 2:7
7 I will declare the decree: the Lord hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee.

Not from birth but from that day God announces that king David is now his Son and that he had begotten him from that day.

But with Christ he says...

God says something more powerful about Jesus Christ.


And there came a voice out of the cloud, saying, This is my beloved Son: hear him.


Jesus is the Son of God. Luke 1:35.And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.

God himself confirming Christ his beloved Son and that he to be called the Son of God.

Adam is called a Son of God.


38 Which was the son of Enos, which was the son of Seth, which was the son of Adam, which was the son of God.


Note: No capital letter on the usage for Adam but a capital letter used for Jesus in all references.







Making "only begotten" incorrect, or a lie, according TO the Tanakh ("Jewish Bible").

When something is begotten of God it means by his power and we know God created all things. Only two men were ever created by Gods direct power without human fathers
they were Adam and Jesus Christ. If you check the argument you make is not an argument. For everything was created by God. But only Jesus was created by the power
of God alone. Adam was formed from the dust of the earth and God breathed life into him and he became a living soul. (Torah)
But Jesus Christ was born by the power of the most high through a virgin. He truly was begat of God and he is therefore the begotten Son of God.
You really do not have an argument in the fact that all who are born of God are begotten. Men and women born of the Spirit are all children of the Most High God.






I really didn't read much of your message because of the innaccuracy of you claims.

How can you claim not to read and then say it is inaccurate?

Truth is that I am more aware of the teachings in the Torah than you. Even understand the teachings because of who God is.
You see Christ was the Son of God and he was born of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.

But whatever your dispute about Ishmael was, he was according to the laws of the day the rightful first son of Abraham, a Semite, and Patriarch of the Arabic people.

He is not the first born of the marriage of Abraham and Sarah (Abrahams wife of the covenant) his true wife and therefore the true Son and first born of the Covenant and any descendant of promise to Abraham was Issac.

The reason the Qur'an has Ishmael in Isaac's place (in Torah) is because it says "eldest son" before Isaac is mentionied.

Ishmael was the eldest son of a slave girl he is not the eldest son of any covenant only Isaac is. Isaac was the first born son of Abraham and Sarah none before him in the line of promise.
I only said that because someone was erroneously under the impression that Mohammed (s) simply claimed to be descended from Ishmael, but it is true and Jews call Arabs to this day "Ishmaelites" along with all religously educated individuals.

I don't know what point you were trying to make but you didn't make it. You didn't make any point.

Ishmael did have a promise of many descendants but no covenant with God and those people.

Genesis 17:16 ( About Sarah) And I will bless her and also give you a son by her; then I will bless her, and she shall be a mother of nations; kings of peoples shall be from
Genesis 17:17-18 Then Abraham fell on his face and laughed, and said in his heart, “Shall a child be born to a man who is one hundred years old? And shall Sarah, who is ninety years old, bear a child?” 18 And Abraham said to God, “Oh, that Ishmael might live before You!
17:19 Then God said: “No, Sarah your wife shall bear you a son, and you shall call his name Isaac; I will establish My covenant with him for an everlasting covenant, and with his descendants after him.”Genesis 17:20 And as for Ishmael, I have heard you. Behold, I have blessed him, and will make him fruitful, and will multiply him exceedingly. He shall beget twelve princes, and I will make him a great nation. Genesis 17:21 But My covenant I will establish with Isaac, whom Sarah shall bear to you at this set time next year.”

Jesus was born of the Son Isaac he is a descendant of both Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.
Mahomet is not a descendant of Issac or Jacob and he is therefore not part of any covenant regarding the promises of God made to Issac.


There is no way God would give a descendant of Ishmael anything which contradicts his teachings in the TORAH nor would he choose any descendant of Ishmael
over the descendants of Issac.

You made claims about the Torah and other things. Claims which were incorrect and impossible in the face of the truth of the Almighty God. Descendants of Abraham, Issac and Jacob were the
first messianic Jews and the word 'Christian' is just an insult hurled at Jews and Gentiles who believed Christ was the Messiah.
 

pearl

Well-Known Member
None of these verses (or anything in the New Testament), says Jesus is God or clearly calls him God.

Which is why you didn't provide the quotes. I can easily show you you are wrong if you do.

We can go tit for tat in presenting the many differing exegetical opinions without any resolution to the question.

Heb 1: 8-9 The author states God has spoken of Jesus His Son the words of Ps 45:6-7
"Your throne, O God, is forever and ever...and the righteous scepter is the scepter of your (his) kingdom. You have loved justice and hated iniquity; therefore, O God, your God has anointed you with the oil of gladness..." The citation of the Ps is according to the Septuagint. It says what it says. The real question is what it meant to the author who cited it as he applied it to Jesus. Was he at all concerned that ho theos in vs 8 is a nominative or a vocative?

Jn 1:1 "In the beginning was the Word; and the Word was in God's presence, and the Word was God." The debate about the third line centers on the fact that theos is used without an article. In the 2nd line ho theos refers to God the Father. As I asked the question before, In predicating theos without the article ho of the Word in the third line, is the author suggesting the Word is somewhat less then the Father?
And raising many other questions, some explain the usage with the simple grammatical rule that predicate nouns generally lack the article. Though theos is probably the predicate, such a rule does not necessarily hold for a statement of identity (the "I am...") formula are followed by predicate nouns which have an article.

One cannot dismiss the fact that the faith in Jesus as God was a development from the liturgical worship of the Christian community prior to the penning of the NT. There is no attempt to define Jesus essentially, but to respond in prayer and worship to the God who revealed Himself to men in Jesus.
 

Shlomoh

Member
Also, as the apostle John penned at Revelation 1:5; Revelation 3:14 B that the pre-human heavenly Jesus was the beginning of the creation by God.
God is Un-created. God is from everlasting according to Psalms 90:2
So, only God was 'before' the beginning. Jesus was Not before the beginning as God was before the beginning.

John also believed that No man can see God according to John 1:18; 1 John 4:12
Which is in harmony with Exodus 33:20. People saw Jesus and lived. People can't see God and live.


The liturgy of the Catholic Church makes clear that Jesus was begotten, not created. In a sense, the heavenly Christ was always present within the God-hood. Even if the heavenly Christ was an emanation from God [as the Christian TORAH], he still would be a part of God which would make him God
 
Also, as the apostle John penned at Revelation 1:5; Revelation 3:14 B that the pre-human heavenly Jesus was the beginning of the creation by God.
God is Un-created. God is from everlasting according to Psalms 90:2
So, only God was 'before' the beginning. Jesus was Not before the beginning as God was before the beginning.

John also believed that No man can see God according to John 1:18; 1 John 4:12
Which is in harmony with Exodus 33:20. People saw Jesus and lived. People can't see God and live.

Personally I have never considered Jesus to be God. It is a ridiculous notion contrived by the early church and the complete theological misunderstanding of the nature of Jesus divinity, his relationship to the Father as a son and the Holy Spirit; offering a corrupted, even pagan like understanding of the sacred to humanity. No doubt there was a profound difference between Sonship and previous prophets sent to those first chosen. But unable to explain that unique difference, the 'church' made Jesus into a false God to make exploiting the gullible masses so much easier. And all is just chasing after wind!
 
"Is Jesus God?"

ANSWER: no - never was.

Of all the quotes by Jesus, he speaks to one thing....the transformation of the Spirit after one dies.

The original poster of this thread fails to do one important thing - which actually leads into three important questions.

For one - the poster presumes they can distinguish what is ACTUAL SCRIPTURE. Actually they cannot. Men decided upon what texts were to be included into the Bible, and not one of those men were "infallible".

Secondly - the poster also fails to honestly answer these three questions - which will clearly show them that men made all the choices for the books they chose and those modern society utilizes.

If answered honestly and truthfully - and they include their self - they will find that they DO NOT KNOW THE ANSWERS....but will promote a false conclusion, as stated by other men.

How honest are you?

***************************
Where does "God" specifically states whom is inspired and whom is not?
Where does "God" specifically states which texts are more holier than others?
Where does "God" specifically states which texts are scripture and which are not?

*************************
 
Jesus was created BY the Word of God (virgin birth), as such he is CALLED the Word, even in Islam. Also because he was GIVEN authority to speak FOR God and clarify the Torah, which had been corrupted by tradition.
Jesus wasnt created by the Word of God, because Jesus is the Word of God, he was never created, he always existed. The Word was sent by God to reveal God, spoke as God and is worthy of worship and praise as God. The Word of God is which speaks the universe into existence and forms man with his hands gives life with is breath in order that we may know God.
 
Secondary thought.....if one were to agree that men could define an unseen or unheard "god" - why do they limit "God's inspiration" to just a handful of people?

Why would they think "fallible" men could make this definition possible without any error included?

Who do these people think they are, to think they can dictate a belief to someone without evidence the belief is valid?

Why do so-called "Christians" believe men over Jesus when they adamantly rebuke many teachings by Jesus that are not in the bible?

Do they think that certain men can know what is best to be believed by other men?

Why do certain humans think they have the rights to promote false teachings without evidence the belief is completely factual? One great example is quotes by Jesus. Why does Christianity think that only less than half of what Jesus taught is viable for a "complete belief in Jesus"?

Why do people believe men over Jesus?

Clearly - they have not fully researched the belief they practice, yet want to promote it as if they have.

Fail.
 

MrMrdevincamus

Voice Of The Martyrs Supporter
Often it is taken for granted that Jesus (p) is God. 2,000 years of tradition has taken precedent over the actual words of the Bible and the Word himself.

I am going to post the verses used to "prove" Jesus (p) is God, show how they do the exact opposite and thus prove with the evidence used pro Jesus being God it actually proves the opposite. It is not at all difficult.

Then I will post the verses that directly contradict the theory that Jesus is equal to God, and if he is not equal he is not God.

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word(Logos), and the Word was with God (Tontheos) and the Word was God (theos, which means Divine or A god, NOT God).

This is obviously not saying that Jesus is God in the original Koine Greek, it is saying that God's Word is Divine, borrowing from Platonic/Philonic philosophy (Logos) for a Hellenistic audience.

14: And the Word became flesh and lived amongst us.

Jesus was created BY the Word of God (virgin birth), as such he is CALLED the Word, even in Islam. Also because he was GIVEN authority to speak FOR God and clarify the Torah, which had been corrupted by tradition.

It is interesting that John is the only book that is used of all Gospels as an offer of proof, I have seen people TRY using the other 3 but it is not worthy of refutation being so ridiculous. Feel free to offer evidence to the contrary.

John 8:58

" Truly I tell you, before Abraham was, I am."

Because God says to Moses "I am that I am" it is ASSUMED Jesus means to say "I AM I am" but he doesn't say that AT ALL.

Punctuation was non existent, it could just as easily be "Before Abraham, was I am (God)."

But I will give the benefit of the doubt, besides, Muslims actually do believe in the preexistence of Jesus.

Which is ALL he was saying, before Abraham was, I am(prexistent, immortal, not God though).

John 10:30

"I and my Father are one."

Out of context I can see why people misinterpret this verse. Let's see what Jesus says right after this when he is about to be stoned:

"I have shown you many good works FROM THE FATHER."

His Father, our Father, the Father. Clearly Jesus is not saying he himself is God THE FATHER, and that his good works are FROM the Father and not of his doing alone.

Which is why he says, 10:29 "What my Father has GIVEN me is greater than all else, and no one (not even Jesus) can snatch it out of the Father's hand. THE Father and I are one."

A metaphor for a united will. God's will is Jesus will, not visa versa.

John 21:25 Judah Thomas exclaims excitedly:

"My lord and my God!"

Perhaps the most dishonest of "proofs" used to try supporting the Nicene Creed, Thomas, here an Apostle is in doubt that Jesus has ressurected until he touches him, odd scene because Mary Magdalene was not allowed to touch him because he had "not yet Ascended."

Nevertheless, Thomas didn't call Jesus "My lord AND my God." Despite Lord being commonly translated from YHVH, YHVH doesn't mean Lord and humans are called lord in the Bible all the time, by Hebrews. God is YHVH-Elohim or El Shaddai, El Elyon, etc.

Maybe he is calling Jesus his lord, but it is far from obvious or clear. He definitely is not calling him Elohim/God though, as he knows he is not God, Jesus talks ABOUT God but never says he IS God and neither does Thomas. "My God!" is an understandable response to seeing a dead man (reportedly, only Peter actually saw the crucifixion, little known fact that it is he denies Jesus because he is "stalking" the Messiah and while doing so is asked repeatedly if he is one of his disciples).

Now the proof that Jesus is not God or equal.

Mt. 24:36
"But about that day and hour no one knows, not angels in Heaven, nor the son, but ONLY the Father."

This destroys the theory of equality between God and Jesus

Mt. 26:39 "My Father, if possible, let this cup pass from me....Yet not what I want but what you want."

Jesus is asking if it is possible and His will, let him out of this situation he doesn't want to be in, but will nevertheless go through with it if GOD wills it so. It is clear who is the Power, God.

Mark 10:18
"Why do you call me good? No one is good but God ALONE."

That is an outright denial that Jesus is God in the flesh. If God alone, not Jesus the Messiah, is good and Jesus rebuked someone who called him good on that account, denying being good even, he can't possibly be God. Because God IS good, ALONE, not Jesus (who is obviously good, but he is making a point, specifically, save the praises for the One Who deserves them, God).

I feel I have proven my point and will leave you with the knowledge that John 5:19,29, 30; 14:28 & 17:21-23 also prove it if you want to look them up. I just don't want this to be too long.

Peace be upon Jesus and the 12 Apostles.

Peace be with you all/Salaam.

IMO, and with respect your thread seems to be missing the point, or maybe proving a point that is already known. The most important thing to know is that Jesus is divine aka the son of God? God itself is beautifully intangible and omniscient while in his realm. God communicates his will using many methods to join his supernatural eternal realm (heaven) with the time dependent world/universe we moral beings call our universe. God has used agents (prophets, disciples, visions and dreams) many times to warn humankind that it is violating its covenant with him or in happier times God send information to help us become immortals ourselves. So why worry if Jesus is equal to God? I will tell you unequivocally God and Jesus are equal and one in the same when both are in the same realm. Jesus is divine as well.

There is something for the thread author to consider. Why would Jesus prove his divinity to you or anyone when he denied the second most power being in existence the same thing and far far more? Lastly (for my beloved Christians) Deuteronomy 6:16: "You shall not put the Lord your God to the test."

God bless our forum and its members ~

: {>
 
IMO, and with respect your thread seems to be missing the point, or maybe proving a point that is already known. The most important thing to know is that Jesus is divine aka the son of God? God itself is beautifully intangible and omniscient while in his realm. God communicates his will using many methods to join his supernatural eternal realm (heaven) with the time dependent world/universe we moral beings call our universe. God has used agents (prophets, disciples, visions and dreams) many times to warn humankind that it is violating its covenant with him or in happier times God send information to help us become immortals ourselves. So why worry if Jesus is equal to God? I will tell you unequivocally God and Jesus are equal and one in the same when both are in the same realm. Jesus is divine as well.

There is something for the thread author to consider. Why would Jesus prove his divinity to you or anyone when he denied the second most power being in existence the same thing and far far more? Lastly (for my beloved Christians) Deuteronomy 6:16: "You shall not put the Lord your God to the test."

God bless our forum and its members ~

: {>

"God has used agents (prophets, disciples, visions and dreams) many times to warn humankind that it is violating its covenant with him or in happier times God send information to help us become immortals ourselves."

How do you know this information?

Please provide your source.

There is nothing in recorded history that shows what you say is true....nor is there anywhere anything from "God".

You are reading way too much into your own ideology of "God".
 

Brickjectivity

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
The liturgy of the Catholic Church makes clear that Jesus was begotten, not created. In a sense, the heavenly Christ was always present within the God-hood. Even if the heavenly Christ was an emanation from God [as the Christian TORAH], he still would be a part of God which would make him God
That is a good thing to point out. That is the liturgy of the Roman Catholics and the Eastern Orthodox I guess?

I can categorize church congregations like this: liturgical clerical, non-liturgical clerical and non-liturgical non-clerical. So for example its clear that LDS are liturgical clerical, and its clear that Benny Hen's church is non-liturgical clerical. No non-clerical church is liturgical (that I have ever heard of), so there is no separate category for that.

Often it is taken for granted that Jesus (p) is God.
It is, but the really strange assumption there is about the nature of God rather than the nature of Jesus. God is everywhere and in everyone, so there is nothing wrong will saying Jesus is both God and man on that basis, which is the basis of Christianity. You can take away the words "Jesus is God" and still be left with the quote "...that God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ..." I do not know if this contradicts Islamic ideas, but Jesus openly teaches in the gospels that people can forgive sins. The idea is repeated in other places such as James 5. There is an emphasis upon God's omnipresence in people which is part of the apology for this kind of forgiveness.

2,000 years of tradition has taken precedent over the actual words of the Bible and the Word himself.
What you are viewing as 2,000 years of tradition is actually not, and this is plain from the fighting that has gone in within the official churches you are talking about. Decisions were made politically, not spiritually, and then all the Christians were left dealing with the results. Its not an excuse to convert to Islam. Politics got involved, not tradition. I think you can see the same political influence in Islam, interfering and making people confused about who to listen to and making people choose sides. People love tradition and cling to it despite everything. They fall in love with anything repetitious and will argue if you try to change the color of a button on a robe.
 

Jenny Collins

Active Member
Also, as the apostle John penned at Revelation 1:5; Revelation 3:14 B that the pre-human heavenly Jesus was the beginning of the creation by God.
God is Un-created. God is from everlasting according to Psalms 90:2
So, only God was 'before' the beginning. Jesus was Not before the beginning as God was before the beginning.

John also believed that No man can see God according to John 1:18; 1 John 4:12
Which is in harmony with Exodus 33:20. People saw Jesus and lived. People can't see God and live.
The word god has more than one meaning! Satan is called the god of this system of things meaning he has power over many people's thinking! Dagon and Molech were gods, meaning that they had the worship of some people! Mighty people were called gods, meaning that they had a measure of power and authority! I think Moses was called a god in this way! Angels are called gods, in that they have power and lastly Jesus is called a god! In Jesus case, the word means that he is "godlike" in that he reflects the glory and power of the true God Jehovah! He is the image of God, but nowhere in the Bible is he called God almighty, a word reserved for Jehovah! The Bible says "No one has seen God" They had seen Jesus! Jesus said "The Father is greater than I am" and this did not just mean his position on earth, because when he returned to heaven he "sat at God's right hand" The Bible says that God would give Jesus the position of King of a Kingdom! If God almighty Jehovah "gave" him the Kingship, this shows Jehovah is superior! At the end of a thousand years reign, Jehovah gives the Kingly power back! This also shows that it ultimately belongs to Jehovah, and he just let Jesus run things for a little while! So Jesus was inferior to God while on earth (he prayed to Jehovah in fact) and when he returned to heaven was also inferior
 

Jenny Collins

Active Member
You just admitted that "Elohim" is a plural word.So why can't the one and only "God" consist of the Heavenly Father and His Son? When you say "God" do you mean just the Father? If my father's last name was Jones and my last name is Jones then we are separate person but part of one Jones family. If the Father's last name is God and Jesus last name is God then they are separate persons but part of one God.
Elohim can also be referred to one individual, and it can also signify majesty!
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
The liturgy of the Catholic Church makes clear that Jesus was begotten, not created. In a sense, the heavenly Christ was always present within the God-hood. Even if the heavenly Christ was an emanation from God [as the Christian TORAH], he still would be a part of God which would make him God

As you are a part of your father does that make you your father, or rather aren't you and your brothers as equals.

Arius line of reasoning was that: God is Un-begotten. ( the pre-human heavenly Jesus is begotten )
Un-begotten God and without a beginning. The Son, because he is begotten cannot be God in the sense that the Father is. The Son did Not exist from all eternity but was created and exists by the will of the Father.

Psalms 90:2 confirms God had No beginning ( from everlasting )
Whereas the pre-human Jesus was Not before the beginning as God was before the beginning.
To me, that is why John could pen that the heavenly Jesus was the beginning of the 'creation' by God.
Which is in harmony with Colossians 1:15 that pre-human heavenly Jesus is first born of every creature. ( creation )
God is Un-created - Revelation 4:11
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
Jesus wasnt created by the Word of God, because Jesus is the Word of God, he was never created, he always existed. The Word was sent by God to reveal God, spoke as God and is worthy of worship and praise as God. The Word of God is which speaks the universe into existence and forms man with his hands gives life with is breath in order that we may know God.

If Jesus was never created why did the apostle John pen that Jesus is the beginning of the creation by God at Revelation 3:14 B, or why does Colossians 1:15 refer to pre-human heavenly Jesus as first born of all creation.
God is Un-created. God is Un-born. God is from before the beginning being from everlasting - Psalms 90:2
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
The word god has more than one meaning! Satan is called the god of this system of things meaning he has power over many people's thinking! Dagon and Molech were gods, meaning that they had the worship of some people! Mighty people were called gods, meaning that they had a measure of power and authority! I think Moses was called a god in this way! Angels are called gods, in that they have power and lastly Jesus is called a god! In Jesus case, the word means that he is "godlike" in that he reflects the glory and power of the true God Jehovah! He is the image of God, but nowhere in the Bible is he called God almighty, a word reserved for Jehovah! The Bible says "No one has seen God" They had seen Jesus! Jesus said "The Father is greater than I am" and this did not just mean his position on earth, because when he returned to heaven he "sat at God's right hand" The Bible says that God would give Jesus the position of King of a Kingdom! If God almighty Jehovah "gave" him the Kingship, this shows Jehovah is superior! At the end of a thousand years reign, Jehovah gives the Kingly power back! This also shows that it ultimately belongs to Jehovah, and he just let Jesus run things for a little while! So Jesus was inferior to God while on earth (he prayed to Jehovah in fact) and when he returned to heaven was also inferior

Yes, God /god has more than one meaning because God/god is a title and Not a personal name.
That is also true about the word Lord is a title and Not a personal name.
Psalms 110 (KJV) mentions two (2) LORD/lord's.
The LORD in all upper-case letters is where the Tetragrammaton (YHWH) stands
Whereas Lord, in some lower-case letters, stand for Lord Jesus.
The Tetragrammaton (YHWH) is never applied to Jesus.

Isn't it 'Jesus', as King of God's kingdom for a thousand years, who gives back God's kingdom to his God according to 1 Corinthians 15:24.

According to Revelation 3:12 the resurrected ascended-to-heaven Jesus still has a God over him.
 
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