If Jesus was God, explain this verse...

[savagewind]

If it happened, is happening, and/or is going to happen... why is it confusing to you?

IF Jesus is God then everything Jesus said MUST COME TRUE. Agree?
If Jesus spoke God's words, those words MUST COME TRUE. Right?

 

[Kenny]

Absolutely!!!! Great post, thank you. Look at Acts 2 with Peter. He tells everyone that the miracles that Jesus did, was God's miracles, that he was working "through" his son.
Same thing with 2 Cor. God was working through his son to reconcile the world back to him.

I also love psalms 89. "He shall cry unto me, Thou art my father, my God, and the rock of my salvation. Also I will make him my firstborn, higher than the kings of the earth."

John 17 "That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me." Jesus explains right here why he said, I and my father are one.

Hey call me crazy, but I just dont see a trinity and anything co-equal in any of this......

Even in the beginning of most of Paul's letters, he also states that God is the God and father of Jesus.....

I can understand why some people can have difficulty seeing it. I also believe that there are places where he talks about it but the problem is when the main issue is overlooked in that when the Word (God) was made flesh, He didn't come to establish that He was God but rather to come as a man, live as a man and ultimately fulfill the promise that was made in Gen 3 where the promise of the seed would defeat Satan. Additionally, as the Word was made flesh, (as Christians understand), He had left His glory as God in Heaven. It is understandable that the parenthetical time that He came as a man can create confusion as to Him being God.

There were, however, various times where He equated Himself as God, equal to God or at least people understood that He was saying that:

John 5:18 Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God.
Luke 5:21 And the scribes and the Pharisees began to reason, saying, Who is this which speaketh blasphemies? Who can forgive sins, but God alone?
John 17:5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.
Matt 12:8 For the Son of man is Lord even of the sabbath day.
John 8:57 Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham? 58Jesus said unto them,Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I AM. 59Then took they up stones to cast at him:

Then there is supportive scripture of the same spoken by others:

Matthew 1:23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.
John 1:
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Philippians 2:5 You must have the same attitude that Christ Jesus had.
6 Though he was God, he did not think of equality with God as something to cling to.
7 Instead, he gave up his divine privileges ; he took the humble position of a slave and was born as a human being. When he appeared in human form,
8 he humbled himself in obedience to God and died a criminal’s death on a cross.

I'm sure there are more.

 

[Kenny]

IF Jesus is God then everything Jesus said MUST COME TRUE. Agree?

It either has or will, yes.

 

[savagewind]

It either has or will, yes.

So then, the "man" who sowed weeds in is God. Because God is the one who said it would happen.

 

[ukok102nak]

I'm not sure if we are talking about two different things and yet thinking we are speaking about one.

I agree it can have singularity
As noted by my scripture reference, it can have a plurality.

It would depend on when it is used and how it is used.


Mark 7:23 All these evils come from inside and defile a person.”

~:> this are about the things which comes out from humans
so as it is written
:read:
Mark 7:19
because it does not go into his heart, but into his stomach, then into the latrine, cleansing all the foods?"
20 He said, "That which proceeds out of the man, that defiles the man.
21 For from within, out of the hearts of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, sexual sins, murders, thefts,
22 covetings, wickedness, deceit, lustful desires, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, and foolishness.
23 All these evil things come from within, and defile the man."

thats why
as it is written
:read:
Matthew 4:4
But he answered, "It is written, 'Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceeds out of the mouth of God.'"


:ty:




godbless
unto all always

 

[savagewind]

So then, the "man" who sowed weeds in is God. Because God is the one who said it would happen.

OR, if Jesus was explaining what DID happen, then God is innocent. IMHO

 

[savagewind]

Where did I say "no mistakes"? Please quote where I said that.

Yes... there are varying opinions on its veracity with each supplying there own reasons for their position.

I am of the camp that it has veracity.

To say that veracity means in it there are no lies is stretching what you said, but tell me, have you found any mistakes in it? Are you looking for any mistakes in it?

Acts of the Apostles 17:11

Now the Berean Jews were of more noble character than those in Thessalonica, for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if what [men wrote] was true.

 

[ukok102nak]

I can understand why some people can have difficulty seeing it. I also believe that there are places where he talks about it but the problem is when the main issue is overlooked in that when the Word (God) was made flesh, He didn't come to establish that He was God but rather to come as a man, live as a man and ultimately fulfill the promise that was made in Gen 3 where the promise of the seed would defeat Satan. Additionally, as the Word was made flesh, (as Christians understand), He had left His glory as God in Heaven. It is understandable that the parenthetical time that He came as a man can create confusion as to Him being God.

There were, however, various times where He equated Himself as God, equal to God or at least people understood that He was saying that:

John 5:18 Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God.
Luke 5:21 And the scribes and the Pharisees began to reason, saying, Who is this which speaketh blasphemies? Who can forgive sins, but God alone?
John 17:5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.
Matt 12:8 For the Son of man is Lord even of the sabbath day.
John 8:57 Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham? 58Jesus said unto them,Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I AM. 59Then took they up stones to cast at him:

Then there is supportive scripture of the same spoken by others:

Matthew 1:23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.
John 1:
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Philippians 2:5 You must have the same attitude that Christ Jesus had.
6 Though he was God, he did not think of equality with God as something to cling to.
7 Instead, he gave up his divine privileges ; he took the humble position of a slave and was born as a human being. When he appeared in human form,
8 he humbled himself in obedience to God and died a criminal’s death on a cross.

I'm sure there are more.

~;> Absolutely!!!! Great post and
we are greatful for this
if we may say so


:ty:




godbless
unto all always

 

[savagewind]

What I don't understand is the nonsense written at Luke 5:21. I forgive sins every day!

 

[Kenny]

So then, the "man" who sowed weeds in is God. Because God is the one who said it would happen.

Let's see if that holds to be true...

Matt 13:25 But while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went his way.

I guess you are wrong. It says it was the enemy that did it.

Is it possible that that saying something will happen doesn't equate to "the person who said it will happen doesn't mean he is making it happen"?

When I saw my child's look on his face I knew he was going to get the cookie in the cookie jar even though we told him to wait after the meal. I went and told my wife it was going to happen saying, "I KNOW that he is going for the cookie in the cookie jar". He got the cookie in the cookie jar... Saying something is going to happen doesn't equate the I made it happen.

 

[Kenny]

To say that veracity means in it there are no lies is stretching what you said, but tell me, have you found any mistakes in it? Are you looking for any mistakes in it?

Acts of the Apostles 17:11

Now the Berean Jews were of more noble character than those in Thessalonica, for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if what [men wrote] was true.

Depends on your interpretation.

When scriptures says "In the beginning, God created the Heavens and the earth" the word God is plural and yet the Jewish people understand it to mean singular. You could technically say it is a mistake. I would hold to its veracity as to Him being one as understood by the Jews.

I would hold that the Bereans found that the word preached by Paul and Silas was true. The two were preaching about Jesus as found in the Hebrew/Aramaic scriptures.

I would hold that because you don't want to accept its veracity, any reason will be a good reason for not accepting it.

 

[savagewind]

Let's see if that holds to be true...

Matt 13:25 But while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went his way.

I guess you are wrong. It says it was the enemy that did it.

Is it possible that that saying something will happen doesn't equate to "the person who said it will happen doesn't mean he is making it happen"?

When I saw my child's look on his face I knew he was going to get the cookie in the cookie jar even though we told him to wait after the meal. I went and told my wife it was going to happen saying, "I KNOW that he is going for the cookie in the cookie jar". He got the cookie in the cookie jar... Saying something is going to happen doesn't equate the I made it happen.

But you do not understand and I am left to wonder why. According to some interpretation GOD said it would happen (I say God said it DID happen). What God says MUST COME TRUE so God saying it will happen makes it happen. The enemy is doing God's will, according to tradition.

 

[savagewind]

Let's see if that holds to be true...

Matt 13:25 But while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went his way.

I guess you are wrong. It says it was the enemy that did it.

Is it possible that that saying something will happen doesn't equate to "the person who said it will happen doesn't mean he is making it happen"?

When I saw my child's look on his face I knew he was going to get the cookie in the cookie jar even though we told him to wait after the meal. I went and told my wife it was going to happen saying, "I KNOW that he is going for the cookie in the cookie jar". He got the cookie in the cookie jar... Saying something is going to happen doesn't equate the I made it happen.

Right, because you are not God. LOL

 

[Kenny]

What I don't understand is the nonsense written at Luke 5:21. I forgive sins every day!

That is good and my congratulations. I know of a case where a spouse forgave her husband for the abuse she suffered. However, the law still proceeded and they didn't and charged him. It is good that you forgive, however, God is the ultimate judge of all things. Incidentally, because Jesus died for you, forgiveness is available for you too.

 

[savagewind]

That is good and my congratulations. I know of a case where a spouse forgave her husband for the abuse she suffered. However, the law still proceeded and they didn't and charged him. It is good that you forgive, however, God is the ultimate judge of all things. Incidentally, because Jesus died for you, forgiveness is available for you too.

I believe in Jesus.

 

[savagewind]

Depends on your interpretation.

When scriptures says "In the beginning, God created the Heavens and the earth" the word God is plural and yet the Jewish people understand it to mean singular. You could technically say it is a mistake. I would hold to its veracity as to Him being one as understood by the Jews.

I would hold that the Bereans found that the word preached by Paul and Silas was true. The two were preaching about Jesus as found in the Hebrew/Aramaic scriptures.

I would hold that because you don't want to accept its veracity, any reason will be a good reason for not accepting it.

I hear you are equating the WHOLE work with each part of the work. I don't do that.

 

[Kenny]

But you do not understand and I am left to wonder why. According to some interpretation GOD said it would happen (I say God said it DID happen). What God says MUST COME TRUE so God saying it will happen makes it happen. The enemy is doing God's will, according to tradition.

Can you quote your source? And is it "their interpretation" when they say God did it?

It looks pretty clear to me that it says "the enemy" did it. Do you believe that when it says "the enemy" did it, that it should be changed to say "and God did it" or "and God said 'I will make it happen" when it didn't say it?

 

[Kenny]

I believe in Jesus.

Well THAT is good news!

 

[moorea944]

I can understand why some people can have difficulty seeing it. I also believe that there are places where he talks about it but the problem is when the main issue is overlooked in that when the Word (God) was made flesh, He didn't come to establish that He was God but rather to come as a man, live as a man and ultimately fulfill the promise that was made in Gen 3 where the promise of the seed would defeat Satan. Additionally, as the Word was made flesh, (as Christians understand), He had left His glory as God in Heaven. It is understandable that the parenthetical time that He came as a man can create confusion as to Him being God.

There were, however, various times where He equated Himself as God, equal to God or at least people understood that He was saying that:

John 5:18 Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God.
Luke 5:21 And the scribes and the Pharisees began to reason, saying, Who is this which speaketh blasphemies? Who can forgive sins, but God alone?
John 17:5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.
Matt 12:8 For the Son of man is Lord even of the sabbath day.
John 8:57 Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham? 58Jesus said unto them,Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I AM. 59Then took they up stones to cast at him:

Then there is supportive scripture of the same spoken by others:

Matthew 1:23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.
John 1:
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Philippians 2:5 You must have the same attitude that Christ Jesus had.
6 Though he was God, he did not think of equality with God as something to cling to.
7 Instead, he gave up his divine privileges ; he took the humble position of a slave and was born as a human being. When he appeared in human form,
8 he humbled himself in obedience to God and died a criminal’s death on a cross.

I'm sure there are more.

problem is when the main issue is overlooked in that when the Word (God) was made flesh

Why do you say that the word "word" is God? When you look up, and we've mentioned this before, in the org. language, the word "word" in that verse is "logos". "Logos" means, someone's plans, thoughts or reason". It is talking about God's thoughts and plans. Veres 1-5 are talking about God. Then in verse 14, God's plans become real and flesh.

Is Jesus called the Word of God in scripture? Yes, of course. But it's not talking about that in verse one.

Why did Jesus have to be born of a women? If Jesus was God, how come he wasnt just "placed" on earth instead of role playing this father and son thing. If someone is co-equal with someone else, why then would they have to be downgraded to a son and not a father role or figure. Doesnt make sense does it.

We have to remember that Jesus could do nothing without his father. Scripture also tells us that God was working "through" his son. Even Jesus's miracles were not his, they were God's miracle working through his son. (Acts 2)

I think we really need to be careful on what we believe. John 17 tells us that "this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent."
So we see here that it is life eternal to know the only true God and Jesus.

 

[Kenny]

I hear you are equating the WHOLE work with each part of the work. I don't do that.

Then let me restate what I am saying "in context of what the other poster said"!!!

They said that one cannot trust the scripture because it has changed. I replied (paraphrased to hopefully make it clearer) that if it had changed, there would be stark differences due to time. Additionally, because of the quantity of manuscripts, the different languages of manuscripts, we can ascertain the veracity of what is written.

I would hold to this statement "The New Testament can be regarded as 99.5 percent pure, and the correct readings for the remaining 0.5 percent can often be ascertained with a fair degree of probability by the practice of textual criticism."

https://bible.org/article/how-accurate-bible