If Jesus was God, explain this verse...

[savagewind]

I understand the message of God is contained in the Bible. I do not know of any other work because I have not studied any other works, though as far as I think I know, the Quran is NOT God's words.

That said (and more enemies made, perhaps, perhaps not) I think that the view of the whole (which "all" means) is to be believed in. Where we differ is that I very strongly believe that each idea as handed down by people has to be examined closely first to be believed. Not every word in the Bible is true for everlasting life imo. That said, I can't say that what was original is for me considered the same way as I consider what has been copied and translated many times. I do not and will not argue what was originally written inspired of God. I argue what we have, which I believe much of it was NOT inspired of God.
I believe that some ideas which were written inspired of God have been made crooked. Isaiah 1:18

 

[ukok102nak]

1. ~;> Absolutely!!!! Great post and

we are greatful for this
if we may say so


:ty:




godbless
unto all always

~;> this really means that christ is the only begotten son of god
and becaused christjesus is
the only begotten son of god meaning
he is also a god
our lord and saviour

as someone here posted this
when the Word (God) was made flesh, He didn't come to establish that He was God but rather to come as a man, live as a man
thats why
we are greatful about this
so as it is written
:read:
John 8:57 Then said the Jews unto him, Thouart not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seenAbraham? 58Jesus said unto them,Verily, verily,I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I AM.59Then took they up stones to cast at him:

imagine those people who once thought to be a follower of god's words
such as this
so it is written
:read:
Deuteronomy 10:17
For the Lord your God, he is God of gods, and Lord of lords, the great God, the mighty, and the awesome, who doesn't respect persons, nor takes reward.
18 He does execute justice for the fatherless and widow, and loves the foreigner, in giving him food and clothing.

but didnt follow that very words itself
for those people knew before that during that time
christjesus is a fatherless in human form
and they even forgot those singing praises to god
as it is written
:read:
Psalms 68:4
Sing to God! Sing praises to his name! Extol him who rides on the clouds: to Yah, his name! Rejoice before him!
5 A father of the fatherless, and a defender of the widows,
is God in his holy habitation.
6 God sets the lonely in families.
He brings out the prisoners with singing,
but the rebellious dwell in a sun-scorched land.

also
thats why those people forgot that love is god and god is love
as it is written
:read:
1 John 4:8
He who does not love does not know God, for God is love.
9 By this God's love was revealed in us, that God has sent his one and only Son into the world that we might live through him.
10 In this is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son as the atoning sacrifice for our sins.
11 Beloved, if God loved us in this way, we also ought to love one another.
12 No one has seen God at any time. If we love one another, God remains in us, and his love has been perfected in us.

so as it is written
:read:
1 Timothy 1:5
but the goal of this command is love, out of a pure heart and a good conscience and unfeigned faith;
6 from which things some, having missed the mark, have turned aside to vain talking;
7 desiring to be teachers of the law, though they understand neither what they say, nor about what they strongly affirm.
8 But we know that the law is good, if a man uses it lawfully,

as they say
love is not jealous and love is not war
thats why
god is love therefore
god is not jealous and not war

probably some people never learn to differentiate what is good and
who cannot lie
if we may say so


:ty:




godbless
unto all always

 

[Kenny]

Why do you say that the word "word" is God? When you look up, and we've mentioned this before, in the org. language, the word "word" in that verse is "logos". "Logos" means, someone's plans, thoughts or reason". It is talking about God's thoughts and plans. Veres 1-5 are talking about God. Then in verse 14, God's plans become real and flesh.

I would agree that Logos is does include someones plans thoughts or reason. However John 1:1 states it in a different fashion. To apply your position to John 1:1 it would say...

In the beginning was God's thoughts, the thoughts were with God, the thoughts were from God. However... it doesn't say it that way. It wasn't "from" God but "was" GOD. Additionally, it wasn't words as in plural but Word as in singular. God's thoughts weren't made flesh... the "WORD" became flesh and was given the name Jesus.

Is Jesus called the Word of God in scripture? Yes, of course. But it's not talking about that in verse one.

Disagree as per above.

Why did Jesus have to be born of a women? If Jesus was God, how come he wasnt just "placed" on earth instead of role playing this father and son thing. If someone is co-equal with someone else, why then would they have to be downgraded to a son and not a father role or figure. Doesnt make sense does it.

Actually it does. In Genesis God dictated that it was man that would have dominion on the earth. Every covenant was through man. God's working was through man. God simply upheld His mandate by coming legally through a woman to exercise legal authority to take back what Adam gave to Satan. To make that happen, as you have stated, He was downgraded, humbled Himself and came in the form of a man. I am a co-heir with Christ Jesus but it doesn't make me Jesus so I am not sure about your point of son and father.

We have to remember that Jesus could do nothing without his father. Scripture also tells us that God was working "through" his son. Even Jesus's miracles were not his, they were God's miracle working through his son. (Acts 2)

Agreed. As the Word became man, He could not work as the Word and needed the Holy Spirit to word through Him. Otherwise, there would be no temptation.

I think we really need to be careful on what we believe. John 17 tells us that "this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent."
So we see here that it is life eternal to know the only true God and Jesus.

John 20:28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.

Jesus didn't object to Thomas statement. The disciples present didn't object to that statement. I think we are safe.

 

[savagewind]

Jesus didn't object to Thomas statement. The disciples present didn't object to that statement. I think we are safe.

Honestly, the story goes that Jesus did not object and others did not object. I am not going to argue either way. I am saying that you SAY, "Jesus did not object and nobody objected", but you do not know that. It is mathematically possible that objections were voiced, but not written down.

 

[ukok102nak]

~;> indeed as always
indeed


:ty:




godbless
unto all always

 

[Kenny]

I understand the message of God is contained in the Bible. I do not know of any other work because I have not studied any other works, though as far as I think I know, the Quran is NOT God's words.

That said (and more enemies made, perhaps, perhaps not) I think that the view of the whole (which "all" means) is to be believed in. Where we differ is that I very strongly believe that each idea as handed down by people has to be examined closely first to be believed. Not every word in the Bible is true for everlasting life imo. That said, I can't say that what was original is for me considered the same way as I consider what has been copied and translated many times. I do not and will not argue what was originally written inspired of God. I argue what we have, which I believe much of it was NOT inspired of God.
I believe that some ideas which were written inspired of God have been made crooked. Isaiah 1:18

I am fine with you having your position.

However, it would appear that it would create instability in one's faith because then you would never know what part you are believing is true.

I would hold to the following:

2 Peter 1:19 Because of that experience, we have even greater confidence in the message proclaimed by the prophets. You must pay close attention to what they wrote, for their words are like a lamp shining in a dark place—until the Day dawns, and Christ the Morning Star shines in your hearts.

Eph. 2:20 Together, we are his house, built on the foundation of the apostles and the prophets. And the cornerstone is Christ Jesus himself.

With Jesus and the Apostles all quoting from the OT, it would seem they had no problem with accepting them.

 

[Kenny]

Honestly, the story goes that Jesus did not object and others did not object. I am not going to argue either way. I am saying that you SAY, "Jesus did not object and nobody objected", but you do not know that. It is mathematically possible that objections were voiced, but not written down.

LOL... sure...

But this isn't mathematics. Thomas was an Apostle!! Nothing was retracted later but, in the Epistles, held to the position that Jesus was Emmanuel, God with us.

 

[savagewind]

LOL... sure...

But this isn't mathematics. Thomas was an Apostle!! Nothing was retracted later but, in the Epistles, held to the position that Jesus was Emmanuel, God with us.

I call indisputable real spiritual things "math". Though I have heard that one plus one does not always equal two, so I guess calling surety math is kinda stupid.

 

[ukok102nak]

Honestly, the story goes that Jesus did not object and others did not object. I am not going to argue either way. I am saying that you SAY, "Jesus did not object and nobody objected", but you do not know that. It is mathematically possible that objections were voiced, but not written down.

~;> those who object probably
saying the same words as
what tomas said
at the end of the conversation


:ty:




godbless
unto all always

 

[ukok102nak]

~;> well who could thought of that
if we may say so


:ty:




godbless
unto all always

 

[savagewind]

~;> those who object probably
saying the same words as
what tomas said
at the end of the conversation


:ty:




godbless
unto all always

What did Thomas say at the end of the conversation?

 

[ukok102nak]

What did Thomas say at the end of the conversation?

~;> as far from what we've seen here
from the verse that was posted a while ago
MY LORD AND MY GOD

and if someone is pertaining unto different conversation then its another story
if we may say so


:ty:




godbless
unto all always

 

[ukok102nak]

~;> so as it is written
:read:
John 20:28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.


:ty:




godbless
unto all always

 

[savagewind]

~;> so as it is written
:read:
John 20:28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.


:ty:




godbless
unto all always

If I may say so, the end of the conversation was this: 29Then Jesus told him, "Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed."

 

[Kenny]

I call indisputable real spiritual things "math". Though I have heard that one plus one does not always equal two, so I guess calling surety math is kinda stupid.

Let me say this differently taking what you said to the nth degree mathematically speaking:

Man went to the moon...
Someone said "We landed on the moon"
No one objected but mathematically speaking, someone could have objected
ergo: it was never said or it never happened.

somehow, just because (mathematically speaking) someone could have objected but never said anything (especially Jesus) ... just doesn't hold the mustard. In this case I would say 1 (Thomas said it) + 1 (Jesus didn't object) + 1(the disciple didn't object even in the Epistles) = 3. Let everything be establish by a witness of two or three.

 

[savagewind]

Thomas did not say, Lord and God of the Earth! He said, "lord of me and god of me". Didn't he?

Maybe lord of me means who I obey and God of me means makes me obey.

 

[savagewind]

Let me say this differently taking what you said to the nth degree mathematically speaking:

Man went to the moon...
Someone said "We landed on the moon"
No one objected but mathematically speaking, someone could have objected
ergo: it was never said or it never happened.

somehow, just because (mathematically speaking) someone could have objected but never said anything (especially Jesus) ... just doesn't hold the mustard. In this case I would say 1 (Thomas said it) + 1 (Jesus didn't object) + 1(the disciple didn't object even in the Epistles) = 3. Let everything be establish by a witness of two or three.

I don't think we should be talking about what anyone said or didn't say. It is what was written that we know. In other words, someone might have said something, but nobody wrote it down.

 

[moorea944]

I would agree that Logos is does include someones plans thoughts or reason. However John 1:1 states it in a different fashion. To apply your position to John 1:1 it would say...

In the beginning was God's thoughts, the thoughts were with God, the thoughts were from God. However... it doesn't say it that way. It wasn't "from" God but "was" GOD. Additionally, it wasn't words as in plural but Word as in singular. God's thoughts weren't made flesh... the "WORD" became flesh and was given the name Jesus.


Disagree as per above.


Actually it does. In Genesis God dictated that it was man that would have dominion on the earth. Every covenant was through man. God's working was through man. God simply upheld His mandate by coming legally through a woman to exercise legal authority to take back what Adam gave to Satan. To make that happen, as you have stated, He was downgraded, humbled Himself and came in the form of a man. I am a co-heir with Christ Jesus but it doesn't make me Jesus so I am not sure about your point of son and father.


Agreed. As the Word became man, He could not work as the Word and needed the Holy Spirit to word through Him. Otherwise, there would be no temptation.


John 20:28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.

Jesus didn't object to Thomas statement. The disciples present didn't object to that statement. I think we are safe.

God's thoughts weren't made flesh... the "WORD" became flesh and was given the name Jesus.

Again, your looking at it the wrong way. Your way would say that he also pre-existed. Which of course we know he didnt. He was born.
Look at the words again. God's thoughts or words became flesh. The logos was made flesh.

John 20:28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.
Jesus didn't object to Thomas statement. The disciples present didn't object to that statement. I think we are safe.

Thomas wasnt calling Jesus God, he was calling him Elohim. Big difference. No one called Jesus God ever. Other people were called Elohim too. Angels, priests, the judges, etc. They were the ones that brought the word of God to the people. And Thomas knew that too. That is why he said that.

 

[Kenny]

Again, your looking at it the wrong way. Your way would say that he also pre-existed. Which of course we know he didnt. He was born.
Look at the words again. God's thoughts or words became flesh. The logos was made flesh.

I disagree. His body was made but He existed before He entered into the body for otherwise He would have said in John 17:5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

Very specifically, Jesus shared the glory with the Father before the world was... pre-existence.

Thomas wasnt calling Jesus God, he was calling him Elohim. Big difference. No one called Jesus God ever. Other people were called Elohim too. Angels, priests, the judges, etc. They were the ones that brought the word of God to the people. And Thomas knew that too. That is why he said that.

No... the Greek word is Theos and it means God.

 

[Kenny]

Thomas did not say, Lord and God of the Earth! He said, "lord of me and god of me". Didn't he?

Maybe lord of me means who I obey and God of me means makes me obey.

Could you site the reference please? Being of Jewish decent he wouldn't call anybody "God" unless he knew Jesus was God.

And it runs consistent with the other scriptures.