If Jesus was God, explain this verse...

[Muffled]

Adam was given rulership over the earth, But Adam Failed to defeat the devil,
So Jesus defeated the devil, taking back the rulership over the earth from the devil.

Jesus is God, How this possible,
God made a body, then God encased Himself inside of the body of Jesus.

I believe there is no evidence to support that notion. Adam has only the general rulership that all men have over the earth.

I don't believe Adam was in a contest with the devil nor was Eve.

I believe that sounds nice but Jesus doesn't completely take over rulership of the world until the Devil is tossed into Hell.

I believe Jesus said with God all things are possible.

This is not technically correct. God created the means for a conception. It is most likely that Mary supplied an egg.

I believe this is not so. God is everywhere so He can't put everywhere into a normal human body. He melded His Spirit with the body and never had to extricate a portion of Himself to do it, so God remains one in and out of the body.

 

[Rough Beast Sloucher]

If you had read Verse 4 you would see that Jesus and Nicodemus are taking about the womb of a woman.
Therefore when a woman's water breaks the baby is born of that water.

To be born, of the Spirit of God, is by the word of God.

Why do you say that being born of the Spirit of God is by the word of God? And what does that mean? The word of God could be the scriptures. Are you now allowing reference to other scriptures? Or the Word of God could be Jesus. But that would also require reference to other scriptures. Whichever, how exactly does being born again come about.

Sticking with John 3 as per the ground rule…

So being born is the water and any other baptism with water is not necessary. Everyone who is born is already halfway there. The question is why does Jesus bother mentioning this? Is he intentionally excluding those born prematurely or by C-section when the water has not burst? Why? If it is simply a euphemism for being born at all, why mention it. Are there anyone around who was not born?

How does one get born of the Spirit?

John 3
5 Jesus answered, “Very truly I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born of water and the Spirit. 6 Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit. 7 You should not be surprised at my saying, ‘You must be born again.’ 8 The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit.”

In the Greek, Spirit, spirit and wind are all the same word. We can distinguish ‘Spirit’ from ‘spirit’ because in the Greek the words translated as ‘the Spirit’ have a definite article, while those translated as ‘spirit’ do not. Yet the word translated as ‘the wind’ also has a definite article. Possibly ‘the Spirit’ should be translated as ‘the wind’ or vice versa. Is there a reason for having a preference without referring to any other scripture, as per our ground rule? Regardless, a connection has been made between the Spirit and the wind.

How does one get born of the Spirit? It does not say. But it does suggest. Jesus says “The wind blows wherever it pleases”. This sounds like the Spirit does the choosing for unknown reasons. The Spirit picks you or it does not. Nothing in other scriptures about faith or baptism or obeying the commandments can influence that.

Another possibility is that “the Spirit gives birth to spirit” means that when we die (become spirit) that is when we are born of the Spirit. This would mean that everyone who dies is born of the Spirit.


So to enter the Kingdom of God, one must:

(a) Be born, with the possible exception of ‘dry’ births. And again, if that does not matter, why is this requirement mentioned?

(b1) Get picked by the Spirit for totally unknown reasons, regardless of what we believe or do.

Or

[b2) Die. This sounds like a reasonable requirement for entering the Kingdom of God.


Is there any other way to understand John 3 without reference to any other scripture?

 

[Faithofchristian]

I believe there is no evidence to support that notion. Adam has only the general rulership that all men have over the earth.

I don't believe Adam was in a contest with the devil nor was Eve.

That is right Adam and Eve was not in a contest with devil, But when Adam and Eve took of the tree and not listen to God.
Adam gave the rulership over to the Devil.

Then Jesus went out into the wilderness, to defeat the devil and take back the rulership over the earth back from the devil.

I believe that sounds nice but Jesus doesn't completely take over rulership of the world until the Devil is tossed into Hell.

The devil has already been Judge and sentence to lake which burns with fire. The devil is the only one who has already been Judge and sentence to lake which burns with fire. When Jesus returns devil and his angels, will be cast in lake which burns with fire.

I believe Jesus said with God all things are possible.

This is not technically correct. God created the means for a conception. It is most likely that Mary supplied an egg.

Yes and God supplied the seed for Mary to be with child. The child did not have a earthly father, The Almighty God is the Father of the baby that Mary had. The baby being Jesus, God in the flesh.
I believe this is not so. God is everywhere so He can't put everywhere into a normal human body. He melded His Spirit with the body and never had to extricate a portion of Himself to do it, so God remains one in and out of the body.

If to what your saying is true, than how is God all powerful, if can't do simple thing as put himself in the body, Almighty God made a body and then encased Himself in the body, so he could come down here on earth and walk among us. To be like us on the flesh. To see and feel what we go thru as flesh and blood beings.
Of course Muhammad do not teach these things. So how would you know these things.

 

[Faithofchristian]

Why do you say that being born of the Spirit of God is by the word of God? And what does that mean? The word of God could be the scriptures. Are you now allowing reference to other scriptures? Or the Word of God could be Jesus. But that would also require reference to other scriptures. Whichever, how exactly does being born again come about.

Being born of the Spirit of God is by the word of God which is the scriptures.

Therefore being born again of the Spirit, is by the word of God the scriptures.
Being born of the water, is by when a woman's water breaks the child comes thru that water, thereby being born of the water.

Sticking with John 3 as per the ground rule…

So being born is the water and any other baptism with water is not necessary. Everyone who is born is already halfway there. The question is why does Jesus bother mentioning this? Is he intentionally excluding those born prematurely or by C-section when the water has not burst? Why? If it is simply a euphemism for being born at all, why mention it. Are there anyone around who was not born?

Being born of the water is when a woman's water breaks the child comes thru that water, thereby being born of the water.


How does one get born of the Spirit?

By the word of God the scriptures.



In the Greek, Spirit, spirit and wind are all the same word. We can distinguish ‘Spirit’ from ‘spirit’ because in the Greek the words translated as ‘the Spirit’ have a definite article, while those translated as ‘spirit’ do not. Yet the word translated as ‘the wind’ also has a definite article. Possibly ‘the Spirit’ should be translated as ‘the wind’ or vice versa. Is there a reason for having a preference without referring to any other scripture, as per our ground rule? Regardless, a connection has been made between the Spirit and the wind.

Jesus is not talking about any Spirit, but the Spirit of God. Which is the Spirit of Truth, which is the Spirit of God.

How does one get born of the Spirit? It does not say. But it does suggest. Jesus says “The wind blows wherever it pleases”. This sounds like the Spirit does the choosing for unknown reasons. The Spirit picks you or it does not. Nothing in other scriptures about faith or baptism or obeying the commandments can influence that.

Another possibility is that “the Spirit gives birth to spirit” means that when we die (become spirit) that is when we are born of the Spirit. This would mean that everyone who dies is born of the Spirit.

No one is born of the Spirit of God while they are alive, being born of the Spirit is by the word of God the Scriptures.

Of course if you understood the the word of God then you would understand how being born of the Spirit of God comes to be.


So to enter the Kingdom of God, one must:

(a) Be born, with the possible exception of ‘dry’ births. And again, if that does not matter, why is this requirement mentioned?

(b1) Get picked by the Spirit for totally unknown reasons, regardless of what we believe or do.

Or

[b2) Die. This sounds like a reasonable requirement for entering the Kingdom of God.


Is there any other way to understand John 3 without reference to any other scripture?

Yes, by Spiritual discernment by the Spirit of God.
"But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God for they are foolishness unto him neither can he know them because they are Spiritually discerned"

Therefore John 3:3-6 takes Spiritual discernment by the Spirit of God.

Do you have any idea what Spiritual discernment is.
Spiritual discernment, is knowing what the Spirit of God will say in the word of God the Scriptures.
Upon your reading the scriptures, your reading what is in black and white and red and white. which is called the letter of the word.
The Spirit of the word, is to see beyond the letter of the word.

Let's take John 20:11-12, Now upon reading John 20:11-12, this is the letter of the word of God,

Now as Mary stood without at the sepulchre she stoop down and look seen two angels. One sitting at the feet and one sitting at the head, where the body of Jesus had laid, this being the letter of the word of God.

Now the question is, What is the Spirit of God saying. What is the Spirit of God revealing about the two Angels, why they are sitting in the way that their sitting.

Therefore you have the letter of the word, and you the Spirit of the word, which can not be seen.
Therefore it takes Spiritual discernment, to see what the Spirit of God is saying.

This bring us back again to --"But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness unto him, neither can he know them, because they are Spiritually discerned" 1 Cor 2:14

Now do you have Spiritual discernment, to discern, What the two angels are revealing in the way their sitting.and will your answer line up to what the Spirit of God reveals, What the two angels are revealing ?

 

[Rough Beast Sloucher]

Yes, by Spiritual discernment by the Spirit of God.

"But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God for they are foolishness unto him neither can he know them because they are Spiritually discerned"

Therefore John 3:3-6 takes Spiritual discernment by the Spirit of God.

Do you have any idea what Spiritual discernment is.
Spiritual discernment, is knowing what the Spirit of God will say in the word of God the Scriptures.
Upon your reading the scriptures, your reading what is in black and white and red and white. which is called the letter of the word.
The Spirit of the word, is to see beyond the letter of the word.

Let's take John 20:11-12, Now upon reading John 20:11-12, this is the letter of the word of God,

Now as Mary stood without at the sepulchre she stoop down and look seen two angels. One sitting at the feet and one sitting at the head, where the body of Jesus had laid, this being the letter of the word of God.

Now the question is, What is the Spirit of God saying. What is the Spirit of God revealing about the two Angels, why they are sitting in the way that their sitting.

Therefore you have the letter of the word, and you the Spirit of the word, which can not be seen.
Therefore it takes Spiritual discernment, to see what the Spirit of God is saying.

This bring us back again to --"But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness unto him, neither can he know them, because they are Spiritually discerned" 1 Cor 2:14

Now do you have Spiritual discernment, to discern, What the two angels are revealing in the way their sitting.and will your answer line up to what the Spirit of God reveals, What the two angels are revealing ?

Since claimants to knowledge by Spiritual Discernment rarely agree with each other unless they have prior knowledge of what they are supposed to think, I do not see this as a valid tool of argumentation in a forum supposedly intended for debating.

And you still have not given an interpretation that answers the question of what it means to be born of the Spirit. I gave some possibilities in hopes that you might react to them and give your answer, but you have not. According to you, being born is sufficient for ‘being born of water’. (And why does that even need to be mentioned?) What does being born of the Spirit mean? Surely you are able to discern that.

I thought the ground rule you put out was that only John 3 could be used. Now you are bringing Paul, whom you explicitly excluded from consideration. You excluded the passages I quoted about how one receives the Spirit, implying that what John meant by being born of the Spirit was different from all the other references to the subject. I once more challenge you (this is a debating forum) to say what you mean by being born of the Spirit in some fashion different from baptism, which all my other references supported.

I am not moving on to some other topic until you finish this one. Recall that you are the one who said I was wrong about a rely I made to someone else in response to a question. If you say I am wrong and you have, say what you think is right and please try to give some justification for your answer other than Spiritual Discernment.

 

[Faithofchristian]

Since claimants to knowledge by Spiritual Discernment rarely agree with each other unless they have prior knowledge of what they are supposed to think, I do not see this as a valid tool of argumentation in a forum supposedly intended for debating.

And you still have not given an interpretation that answers the question of what it means to be born of the Spirit. I gave some possibilities in hopes that you might react to them and give your answer, but you have not. According to you, being born is sufficient for ‘being born of water’. (And why does that even need to be mentioned?) What does being born of the Spirit mean? Surely you are able to discern that.

I thought the ground rule you put out was that only John 3 could be used. Now you are bringing Paul, whom you explicitly excluded from consideration. You excluded the passages I quoted about how one receives the Spirit, implying that what John meant by being born of the Spirit was different from all the other references to the subject. I once more challenge you (this is a debating forum) to say what you mean by being born of the Spirit in some fashion different from baptism, which all my other references supported.

I am not moving on to some other topic until you finish this one. Recall that you are the one who said I was wrong about a rely I made to someone else in response to a question. If you say I am wrong and you have, say what you think is right and please try to give some justification for your answer other than Spiritual Discernment.

I only brought up Paul, to show that Spiritual discernment is need to bring out What Jesus ment by being born of the Spirit and born of the water.

If you do not have Spiritual discernment, then how can you know what the spirit of God is saying about being born of the water and born of the Spirit ?

So when you say, being born of the water being baptism, that is man's teachings and doctrines and nothing the Spirit of God will say.

 

[Rough Beast Sloucher]

I only brought up Paul, to show that Spiritual discernment is need to bring out What Jesus meant by being born of the Spirit and born of the water.

If you do not have Spiritual discernment, then how can you know what the spirit of God is saying about being born of the water and born of the Spirit ?

So when you say, being born of the water being baptism, that is man's teachings and doctrines and nothing the Spirit of God will say.

So no answer to my questions about ...

Why it is necessary to point out that you can't get into the Kingdom of God unless you were born of a woman. (Macduff is out of luck?)
Isn't everyone born?

What being born of the Spirit means if it is not related to baptism.

You cannot claim to have Spiritual Discernment unless you can give convincing answers to those questions.

EDIT: Almost forgot. The scriptures I quoted were all about the necessity of baptism (explicitly named) by the Spirit. Is that man's teachings?

 

[Faithofchristian]

So no answer to my questions about ...

Why it is necessary to point out that you can't get into the Kingdom of God unless you were born of a woman. (Macduff is out of luck?)
Isn't everyone born?

What being born of the Spirit means if it is not related to baptism.

You cannot claim to have Spiritual Discernment unless you can give convincing answers to those questions.

EDIT: Almost forgot. The scriptures I quoted were all about the necessity of baptism (explicitly named) by the Spirit. Is that man's teachings?

So now since you go other Scriptures. So now let's go to the book of 1st Peter to find out exactly what being born of the Spirit of God actually teaches.

1 Peter 1:22-23--"Seeing you have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that you love one another with a pure heart fervently: Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, By the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever"

Therefore to be born again of the Spirit, is by the word of God.
As being born of water, is when a woman's water breaks the child comes thru that water. Therefore "Except a man be born of the water and of the Spirit, he can not enter the kingdom of God.

To come into this world, we are born of a woman when her water breaks the child is born thru that water.

No one comes into this world unless they are born of a woman and by the woman's water breaks the child comes thru that water.thereby being born of the water.

 

[osgart]

Matthew 4:1 Then was Jesus led up of the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil.

If Jesus was God, why was he tempted by the Devil? Can God be tempted by the Devil, his own creation?

Granted, he passed the test. But if he was God... Why was there a test in the first place? Does God need to test himself?

Are God and Jesus really one in the same? Please answer logically how this is possible given the verse above.

They say Jesus wanted to experience life fully as a human being, so that he would understand us all better. So everything Jesus went through, humans all go through to.

As a non christian, I've met lots of christians, and that is how some of them explain that subject.

 

[Faithofchristian]

They say Jesus wanted to experience life fully as a human being, so that he would understand us all better. So everything Jesus went through, humans all go through to.

As a non christian, I've met lots of christians, and that is how some of them explain that subject.

As Israel and Moses was out in the wilderness for 40 years, as was Jesus in wilderness for 40 nights and 40 days. To complish what Israel did not do.

 

[Rough Beast Sloucher]

So now since you go other Scriptures. So now let's go to the book of 1st Peter to find out exactly what being born of the Spirit of God actually teaches.

1 Peter 1:22-23--"Seeing you have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that you love one another with a pure heart fervently: Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, By the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever"

Therefore to be born again of the Spirit, is by the word of God.
As being born of water, is when a woman's water breaks the child comes thru that water. Therefore "Except a man be born of the water and of the Spirit, he can not enter the kingdom of God.

To come into this world, we are born of a woman when her water breaks the child is born thru that water.

No one comes into this world unless they are born of a woman and by the woman's water breaks the child comes thru that water.thereby being born of the water.

Explain exactly what you mean by being born of the Spirit is by the word of God. Is it by the scriptures, which is the word of God is it not? That would mean accepting baptism as necessary, as is pointed out in multiple passages, some of which I quoted. Does it mean believing in Jesus as the Word (Logos), this identification being in the opening of John. Would Nicodemus understand that since it does not appear in Jewish scripture? Does it mean something else. I believe I asked these same questions earlier. In detail, what does it mean to be born again by the Spirit by the word of God?

In addition why does Jesus need to say that only those who are born of a woman can see the kingdom of God? Who else is there? Also why is that part of being born again? That is part of the first birth, not being reborn. The connection Jesus makes between being born of water and the Spirit suggests the two happen together. Which of course is a perfect description of baptism.

 

[Faithofchristian]

Explain exactly what you mean by being born of the Spirit is by the word of God. Is it by the scriptures, which is the word of God is it not? That would mean accepting baptism as necessary, as is pointed out in multiple passages, some of which I quoted. Does it mean believing in Jesus as the Word (Logos), this identification being in the opening of John. Would Nicodemus understand that since it does not appear in Jewish scripture? Does it mean something else. I believe I asked these same questions earlier. In detail, what does it mean to be born again by the Spirit by the word of God?

In addition why does Jesus need to say that only those who are born of a woman can see the kingdom of God? Who else is there? Also why is that part of being born again? That is part of the first birth, not being reborn. The connection Jesus makes between being born of water and the Spirit suggests the two happen together. Which of course is a perfect description of baptism.

I gave you 1Peter 1:22-23. It's all there, to born again of the Spirit is by the word of God.
Being born again of the water is by when a woman's water breaks the child comes thru that water, thereby being born of the water.
In Jesus and Nicodemus conversation, they are talking about the womb of a woman in
John 3:4, Nicodemus ask Jesus can a man enter the womb of a woman the 2nd time.

Therefore Jesus and Nicodemus are talking about the womb of a woman.

Thereby when a woman's water breaks the child comes thru that water. Being born of the water.
But yet you keep wanting to over ride Christ Jesus teachings with man's teachings.
So you believe what man will teach to be born of the water means baptism.

Christ Jesus and Nicodemus are plainly talking about the womb of a woman.

If it was about baptism, don't you think logical that Christ Jesus would made sure that's what water is to Repsents, But Jesus nor Nicodemus said anything about Baptism, Only about the womb of a woman in Verse 4. Which is when a woman's water breaks the child comes thru that water.
Being born of the water.

 

[Rough Beast Sloucher]

I gave you 1Peter 1:22-23. It's all there, to born again of the Spirit is by the word of God.
Being born again of the water is by when a woman's water breaks the child comes thru that water, thereby being born of the water.
In Jesus and Nicodemus conversation, they are talking about the womb of a woman in
John 3:4, Nicodemus ask Jesus can a man enter the womb of a woman the 2nd time.

Therefore Jesus and Nicodemus are talking about the womb of a woman.

Thereby when a woman's water breaks the child comes thru that water. Being born of the water.
But yet you keep wanting to over ride Christ Jesus teachings with man's teachings.
So you believe what man will teach to be born of the water means baptism.

Christ Jesus and Nicodemus are plainly talking about the womb of a woman.

If it was about baptism, don't you think logical that Christ Jesus would made sure that's what water is to Repsents, But Jesus nor Nicodemus said anything about Baptism, Only about the womb of a woman in Verse 4. Which is when a woman's water breaks the child comes thru that water.
Being born of the water.

Try answering my questions about this, that I have asked several times now

 

[Faithofchristian]

Explain exactly what you mean by being born of the Spirit is by the word of God. Is it by the scriptures, which is the word of God is it not? That would mean accepting baptism as necessary, as is pointed out in multiple passages, some of which I quoted. Does it mean believing in Jesus as the Word (Logos), this identification being in the opening of John. Would Nicodemus understand that since it does not appear in Jewish scripture? Does it mean something else. I believe I asked these same questions earlier. In detail, what does it mean to be born again by the Spirit by the word of God?

In addition why does Jesus need to say that only those who are born of a woman can see the kingdom of God? Who else is there? Also why is that part of being born again? That is part of the first birth, not being reborn. The connection Jesus makes between being born of water and the Spirit suggests the two happen together. Which of course is a perfect description of baptism.

Try answering my questions about this, that I have asked several times now

That's because what your asking is man's teachings, man's teachings will tell you that the water Repsents baptism.
Therefore I do go by man's teachings, only by the teachings of Christ Jesus.

Therefore if you wish to by man's teachings, then follow and I will follow the teachings of Christ Jesus.

As to who do you believe will be right
Mans teachings, which are the teachings of Pastors, Preachers teachings, or the teachings of Christ Jesus.

 

[1213]

I believe this concept is false. One is never greater than itself. One in NYC can be greater than One in Kalamazoo, MI.

I believe this can't be true because Jesus is God on earth and that is more than just representation.

Interesting, it is Bible that says God is greater than Jesus, so I would assume you believe what the Bible tells.

I believe God on earth means, Jesus represents God on earth, he makes deal in the name of God. it is similar to president of a country, president makes deals in the name of a country, but he himself is not the country. Bible says Jesus is the mediator between men and God.

For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,
1 Timothy 2:5

I think that is same as that Jesus is the image of God, as the Bible says:

…is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation…
Colossians 1:14-16

Bible says also that Jesus is the temple of God, God dwells in Jesus.

Don't you believe that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? The words that I tell you, I speak not from myself; but the Father who lives in me does his works…
John 14:10

For in him all the fullness of the Godhead dwells bodily,
Colossians 2:9

Jesus answered them, "Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up." The Jews therefore said, "Forty-six years was this temple in building, and will you raise it up in three days?" But he spoke of the temple of his body.
John 2:19-21

And Jesus spoke as God had commanded him to speak:


For I spoke not from myself, but the Father who sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak. I know that his commandment is eternal life. The things therefore which I speak, even as the Father has said to me, so I speak."
John 12:49-50

Jesus therefore answered them, "My teaching is not mine, but his who sent me. If anyone desires to do his will, he will know about the teaching, whether it is from God, or if I am speaking from myself.
John 7:16-17

I hope you understand and believe what the Bible tells.

 

[TrueBeliever37]

The water part is easy. Sprinkling, full immersion, take your pick.

According to Acts, the Apostles were baptized with the Holy Spirit at Pentecost who visibly came on them. This appears to be a one time special event.

Acts 2:38 says that if you repent and get baptized, presumably with water, you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

In Acts 8:15-17 some people who had only been baptized in the name of Jesus had not received the Holy Spirit. Peter and John lay hands on them and they receive the Holy Spirit. But maybe the laying on of hands method is something only original Apostles can do?

In Matthew 28:19, Jesus says to baptize "in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit".

Is this the answer: use water (how?) and use that formula?

The Messiah said you must be born again, born of the water and the Spirit to enter the kingdom.

He gave Peter the keys to the kingdom. Peter used those keys on the day of Pentecost in the Acts 2:38. When you are baptized in water in the name of the one that shed the blood, that is being born of the water. When God fills you with his Holy Spirit, that is being born of the Spirit. Being born of the water is not being born naturally as the person you have been discussing this with has been saying. The Messiah said that which is born of the flesh is flesh. Being born of the flesh is what the natural birth is called.

When you repent you are supposed to die out to sin. The old man dies to sin. What do you do with a dead man? You bury them. The scripture teaches we are buried with him in baptism, so immersion is correct, not sprinkling. When God fills you with his holy Spirit, you become a new man, born again.

As far as Matthew 28:19, this is only one account of this event. Luke 24:47 also gives an account of this same event. That account says that repentance and remission of sins was to be preached in his name among all nations beginning at Jerusalem. Notice Matthew says in the name (singular).

The Messiah said I and my Father are one. If you have seen me you have seen the Father. The Messiah was both the Father and the Son as Isaiah 9:6 said he would be. Mary was conceived with child of the holy Spirit, so the Holy Spirit is the Father, not another person in the Godhead. You simply have the eternal Holy Spirit of God (YHWH) dwelling in a fleshly body which he had made to dwell in and sacrifice for the sins of the world.

Look through the scriptures and see how the Apostles obeyed the Messiah. They never once used the formula of the Trinity. They always used his name in baptisms. They were there and knew what he taught. He gave them understanding, and their orders were to teach us all things that he had commanded them. They never once taught a trinity nor three persons in the Godhead nor baptism in a trinity.

 

[Faithofchristian]

The Messiah said you must be born again, born of the water and the Spirit to enter the kingdom.

He gave Peter the keys to the kingdom. Peter used those keys on the day of Pentecost in the Acts 2:38. When you are baptized in water in the name of the one that shed the blood, that is being born of the water. When God fills you with his Holy Spirit, that is being born of the Spirit. Being born of the water is not being born naturally as the person you have been discussing this with has been saying. The Messiah said that which is born of the flesh is flesh. Being born of the flesh is what the natural birth is called.

Who told that being baptized, As being born of the water, Who told you that?

Can you give in John 3:3-6, As to where in Jesus and Nicodemus, said anything about baptism, Not one time in their whole conversation did Jesus or Nicodemus say anything about baptism. So how do you come by baptism, when Jesus nor Nicodemus said nothing about baptism

So who told you that?

Who told you that, When God fills you with his Holy Spirit, that is being born of the Spirit. Who told this ?

That is not according to what Peter had written in 1st Peter 1:22-23, being born again of the Spirit, Is by the word of God.



When you repent you are supposed to die out to sin. The old man dies to sin. What do you do with a dead man? You bury them. The scripture teaches we are buried with him in baptism, so immersion is correct, not sprinkling. When God fills you with his holy Spirit, you become a new man, born again.

As far as Matthew 28:19, this is only one account of this event. Luke 24:47 also gives an account of this same event. That account says that repentance and remission of sins was to be preached in his name among all nations beginning at Jerusalem. Notice Matthew says in the name (singular).

The Messiah said I and my Father are one. If you have seen me you have seen the Father. The Messiah was both the Father and the Son as Isaiah 9:6 said he would be. Mary was conceived with child of the holy Spirit, so the Holy Spirit is the Father, not another person in the Godhead. You simply have the eternal Holy Spirit of God (YHWH) dwelling in a fleshly body which he had made to dwell in and sacrifice for the sins of the world.

Look through the scriptures and see how the Apostles obeyed the Messiah. They never once used the formula of the Trinity. They always used his name in baptisms. They were there and knew what he taught. He gave them understanding, and their orders were to teach us all things that he had commanded them. They never once taught a trinity nor three persons in the Godhead nor baptism in a trinity.

 

[Rough Beast Sloucher]

That's because what your asking is man's teachings, man's teachings will tell you that the water Repsents baptism.
Therefore I do go by man's teachings, only by the teachings of Christ Jesus.

Therefore if you wish to by man's teachings, then follow and I will follow the teachings of Christ Jesus.
As to who do you believe will be right
Mans teachings, which are the teachings of Pastors, Preachers teachings, or the teachings of Christ Jesus.

Peter said that water represents baptism.

1 Peter 3
18 For Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body but made alive in the Spirit. 19 After being made alive, he went and made proclamation to the imprisoned spirits— 20 to those who were disobedient long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built. in the days of Noah while the ark was being built. In it only a few people, eight in all, were saved through water, 21 and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also—not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a clear conscience toward God. It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ,

Jesus died and was made alive in the Spirit. The water symbolizes the baptism that saves you by the resurrection of Jesus.

Here we can see Peter connecting with Paul’s portrayal of baptism as participation in dying and resurrecting with Jesus.

Romans 6
3 Or don’t you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? 4 We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life.
5 For if we have been united with him in a death like his, we will certainly also be united with him in a resurrection like his. 6 For we know that our old self was crucified with him so that the body ruled by sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves to sin— 7 because anyone who has died has been set free from sin.

Baptism is death to sin and resurrection to live a new life. To receive a new life after death is to be born again. And as Peter told us, baptism is by water.

The water of baptism might be a reference to the water of birth by woman and thereby represent being born again to a new life. Jesus could very well have meant that, intentionally invoking the idea of a literal birth to make a compelling image. But claiming that the water of birth by woman is the water of being born again raises the problem that everyone is born of a woman. Why mention it? Why connect it to being born again?

Baptism by water is not man’s teachings. It is right there in the scriptures.

 

[Faithofchristian]

Peter said that water represents baptism.

Can you show in John 3:3-6, As to where Jesus or Nicodemus said anything about baptism in their whole conversation.

Not one time did Jesus nor Nicodemus said anything about baptism. So how is it that you can add into their conversation, which neither Jesus nor Nicodemus said anything about baptism.

Can you explain what gives you the right to add unto their conversation, That Jesus nor Nicodemus said anything about baptism?

[QUOTE}1 Peter 3
18 For Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body but made alive in the Spirit. 19 After being made alive, he went and made proclamation to the imprisoned spirits— 20 to those who were disobedient long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built. in the days of Noah while the ark was being built. In it only a few people, eight in all, were saved through water, 21 and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also—not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a clear conscience toward God. It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ,

Jesus died and was made alive in the Spirit. The water symbolizes the baptism that saves you by the resurrection of Jesus.

Here we can see Peter connecting with Paul’s portrayal of baptism as participation in dying and resurrecting with Jesus.



Baptism is death to sin and resurrection to live a new life. To receive a new life after death is to be born again. And as Peter told us, baptism is by water.

The water of baptism might be a reference to the water of birth by woman and thereby represent being born again to a new life. Jesus could very well have meant that, intentionally invoking the idea of a literal birth to make a compelling image. But claiming that the water of birth by woman is the water of being born again raises the problem that everyone is born of a woman. Why mention it? Why connect it to being born again?

Baptism by water is not man’s teachings. It is right there in the scriptures.[/QUOTE]

 

[Faithofchristian]

Peter said that water represents baptism.



Jesus died and was made alive in the Spirit. The water symbolizes the baptism that saves you by the resurrection of Jesus.

Here we can see Peter connecting with Paul’s portrayal of baptism as participation in dying and resurrecting with Jesus.



Baptism is death to sin and resurrection to live a new life. To receive a new life after death is to be born again. And as Peter told us, baptism is by water.

The water of baptism might be a reference to the water of birth by woman and thereby represent being born again to a new life. Jesus could very well have meant that, intentionally invoking the idea of a literal birth to make a compelling image. But claiming that the water of birth by woman is the water of being born again raises the problem that everyone is born of a woman. Why mention it? Why connect it to being born again?

Baptism by water is not man’s teachings. It is right there in the scriptures.

Well if it's not man's teachings, Then how do come by baptism, When in fact neither Jesus nor Nicodemus said anything about baptism, in their whole conversation in John 3:3-6.

So explain exactly how do you come by baptism, when in fact, neither Jesus nor Nicodemus said anything about baptism. In their whole conversation in John 3:3-6.

You know it can be understood, when an Unbeliever adds unto God's word,
But you as a Christian found adding unto God's word.
Just what exactly gives you that right.

You Christians are pathetic, you'll condemn someone else, who is found adding unto God's word, Then yourself are found doing, What you will tell other people not to do.