davidishere
Member
I reckon the world would be a better place because religion causes so many problems in societies across the world.
Anyone care to prove me wrong?
Anyone care to prove me wrong?
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If religion did not exist, would the world be a less violent and safer place?
- Thread starter davidishere
- Start date
gnomon
Well-Known Member
You need a better argument than that.
davidishere
Member
What about peoples hate for homosexuals? I think religion inspired that.
What about all those murderes claiming that God told them to commit their crimes?
What about those wars that have been happening, since, ever?
Crusades, Jihads, i wonder what those were about?
K.Venugopal
Immobile Wanderer
In hindsight, religions would not have caused problems if each had not claimed that they alone had the truth.
How would one even go about proving this supposition incorrect?
One could point to Soviet Russia, red China, and North Korea but there is no guarantee that those type of society would be the rule in a world without religion...
One could point to Soviet Russia, red China, and North Korea but there is no guarantee that those type of society would be the rule in a world without religion...
gnomon
Well-Known Member
While there is no doubt the religious justification used for violent acts by one community against another or upon itself a comparison drawn between religious justifications and non-religious ones would be more apt.
There is nothing about the Western wars fought in the 20th century that shows religion as a cause. Primarily, economic or ethnic interests dominate the vast majority of recent and large scale conflicts.
Religion, in my opinion, has been easy to single out because of its culturally distinct signatures whereas ethnic hatred seems harder or more uncomfortable. The Rwanda genocide would have never occurred if the Hutu and Tutsi were convinced to drop their cultural identity. I would posit that basic cultural and ethnic identity and loyalty to that identity, often irrationally followed, has done far more harm to the human race than religious strife.
edit: To add, since technically if one were to posit that religion causes violence and the removal of religion would therefore reduce violence, we would have to draw up comparisons of all other behavior we attribute to religious belief. Also, whether or not negative and positive behavior attached to religious belief can be practiced without adhering to those beliefs.
But please, state more than just a mention of the crusades. While the start of the Crusades is clearly motivated by religion I think a case can be made that the later conflicts can be written up to politics and greed as much as religion.
YmirGF
Bodhisattva in Recovery
Although your thinking has enough holes to drive a brigade of Jihad Joe's through, I will humbly admit that I look forward to the day that religion, as we know it, is a thing of the past.
In my view, religion is like a flower seed that was planted far too deeply. If my suspicions are correct all we need do is remove a few layers of muck and then perhaps true spirituality might begin to grow and blossom on this sad little rock.
eudaimonia
Fellowship of Reason
The world could be much better. The world could be much worse. The world could be anywhere in between.
It all depends on what replaces religion. Religion may cause problems, but then many different things cause problems. Religion is not the only source of problems in the world.
eudaimonia,
Mark
It all depends on what replaces religion. Religion may cause problems, but then many different things cause problems. Religion is not the only source of problems in the world.
eudaimonia,
Mark
blackout
Violet.
People's BELIEFS are what cause the problems of the world.
IMHO ,
mass followings of pre-scribed (pre written, pre scripted) ideas
of any religion/institution/govt are the greatest downfall of this world reality.
When we BELIEVE boundaries...
they become REAL for us...
in our minds eye...
and then out into the physical world...
borders & walls & wars spring forth...
where there should be wellsprings and wonder...
and boundless freedom.
IMHO ,
mass followings of pre-scribed (pre written, pre scripted) ideas
of any religion/institution/govt are the greatest downfall of this world reality.
When we BELIEVE boundaries...
they become REAL for us...
in our minds eye...
and then out into the physical world...
borders & walls & wars spring forth...
where there should be wellsprings and wonder...
and boundless freedom.
BucephalusBB
ABACABB
I am growing tired of saying, but don't you think that mankind simply needs a reason to grow war? Don't you think that when religion is gone that mankind will use other reasons? Do you really believe that all wars (or violence) that have been fought in the name of religion would not have happened without religion? :sarcastic
Shadow Wolf
Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
Nah......people will still find something to fight about. "God" just so happens to be a very convenient word that will rally the masses more easily than anything else.
blackout
Violet.
Leaders create, sell, and dictate wars.
Any excuse will do.
The masses are expendable pawns in all of this.
Whatever "reasoning" will work on the population is just fine.
religion, racism, economic tension, fear of an "enemy",
but there must always be
borders,
enemies,
and threats.
(fear, jealousy, hatred of what's different, etc)
I won't even try to prove you wrong, because that would need to ban religions to see if your premise is right; my own thought are that religion is often used as an excuse for people to get what they want. In my mind, banning religion would merely offload all the religious problems under the banner of "Politics". It would achive nothing.
JESUS speaking here:
Jhn 16:2 They will put you out of the synagogues; yes, the time is coming that whoever kills you will think that he offers God service.And these things will they do unto you, because they have not known the Father, nor me.
To answer this question, Jesus qualified and distinguished those who were just outwardly religious and those who were transformed inwardly by the power of God .
Jesus exposed the religious adherents and condemned them.
Religion is man, through self effort,discipline,devotion to idols,prayer, rituals, etc.trying to reach up to bring God down,to appease him by outward service,
Christianity is man allowing God to reach down and touch them by the power of the holy Spirit, with no acts of service sufficient enough to atone for sin.They recognise it is by grace we are saved and not by works so man can't boast in their self efforts
if I asked a relgious person if they think their good enough to go to heaven, most usually answer, I'm a good person,I do good things,religion is based on external service and acts of duty.
Jesus despised religion and the religious of his time
Jesus called man to be born again (from above) ,to be changed by an inward spiritual conversion.
Jesus called men to obedience and to follow after him ,to walk in the spirit and not in the flesh.
Religion is man attempting to change the outside on their own accord
Of couse not. People would still find things to argue and fight about.
.
Don Penguinoini
Modi.
FOR GAWDS SAKE!!!!!!!!!! Why do you over-generalise??? Has hinduism promoted this? Sikhism? Buddhism? Jainism? Come on man, put teh word abrahamic in there. If i got a penny for every time you did that i would be quadtrillion-aire.
Don Penguinoini
Modi.
Which points out why hindusim is ideal for world peace.
YmirGF
Bodhisattva in Recovery
Those of us in the "know" understand that, O' Lord of the Penguins. The funny thing is hardly anyone else wants to admit it. Oy vey, eh?
