If the Bible was first discovered in the Qumran caves near the Dead Sea...

[BilliardsBall]

The daughter of Babylon is Israel. Its a scolding for falling away and chasing false gods.

So I should not (of course!) fall away from trusting Jesus and rejecting false doctrine/false gods. I agree, but I adhere to trusting Jesus, not my lack of sin/following the 613 laws. Respectfully, I would question anyone who claims to be sinless (except Jesus Christ), and I think 1 John and other chapters strongly question that, too.

 

[BilliardsBall]

Yeshua listed the Commandments for the young man, which are for every person, whether of Jacob, or a Gentile (Ecclesiastes 12:13-14). "Because God will bring every act to judgment, everything which is hidden, whether it is good or evil".

Now I think one of the two of us may be confused (not sure who!).

Based on the limited commandments in the Matthew passage, most everyone is saved, including followers (sad to say, right?) of Rome!

 

[2ndpillar]

Now I think one of the two of us may be confused (not sure who!).

Based on the limited commandments in the Matthew passage, most everyone is saved, including followers (sad to say, right?) of Rome!

Matthew 19:17 is not about your false gospel of grace/cross, and being "saved". It is about entering into life. The Commandments listed are how to love your neighbor as yourself, which is in effect loving God. As for your Roman church and her daughters, they bow down to the "beast", the "false prophet", and the daughter of Babylon, and wear the "mark of the beast". Their life is a lie, and a false witness to their neighbor, which is indeed breaking the Commandments. As for Yeshua's version of adultery, just looking at a women with lust could prevent one from entering into the "kingdom of heaven" (Matthew 5:20-28). Apparently, according to Jimmy Carter, he failed to make the cut on this issue alone.

 

[sooda]

Matthew 19:17 is not about your false gospel of grace/cross, and being "saved". It is about entering into life. The Commandments listed are how to love your neighbor as yourself, which is in effect loving God. As for your Roman church and her daughters, they bow down to the "beast", the "false prophet", and the daughter of Babylon, and wear the "mark of the beast". Their life is a lie, and a false witness to their neighbor, which is indeed breaking the Commandments. As for Yeshua's version of adultery, just looking at a women with lust could prevent one from entering into the "kingdom of heaven" (Matthew 5:20-28). Apparently, according to Jimmy Carter, he failed to make the cut on this issue alone.

Loving your neighbors was only if your neighbors were also Jews.

 

[2ndpillar]

Loving your neighbors was only if your neighbors were also Jews.

You seem to have a simmering of hatred for the Jews. What, are you married to a Muslim, whose objective seems to crush the Jews and Israel? The end of that story will not end well (Psalms 83:13).

Maybe your Muslim friends should refrain from persecuting strangers (Christian and Jews), those other than those who make them money, and refrain from killing each other.

Yeshua's message was to love everyone, even your enemies (Matthew 5:44). Better to keep your friends close, and your enemies closer.

Psalms 146:9," The LORD protects the strangers;"

Exodus 23:9-12
"You shall not oppress a stranger, since you yourselves know the feelings of a stranger, for you also were strangers in the land of Egypt

 

[2ndpillar]

So I should not (of course!) fall away from trusting Jesus and rejecting false doctrine/false gods. I agree, but I adhere to trusting Jesus, not my lack of sin/following the 613 laws. Respectfully, I would question anyone who claims to be sinless (except Jesus Christ), and I think 1 John and other chapters strongly question that, too.

The "falling away" refers to Matthew 26:31 in which Yeshua quotes Zechariah 13:7, which is about the Shepherd being struck and the sheep will be scattered. As for "sinless", according to 1 John 3:9,"No one who is born of God practices sin, because His seed abides in him; and he cannot sin, because he is born of God". Which leads us to 1 John 3:8,"the one who practices sin is of the devil".

 

[sooda]

You seem to have a simmering of hatred for the Jews. What, are you married to a Muslim, whose objective seems to crush the Jews and Israel? The end of that story will not end well (Psalms 83:13).

Maybe your Muslim friends should refrain from persecuting strangers (Christian and Jews), those other than those who make them money, and refrain from killing each other.

Yeshua's message was to love everyone, even your enemies (Matthew 5:44). Better to keep your friends close, and your enemies closer.

Psalms 146:9," The LORD protects the strangers;"

Exodus 23:9-12
"You shall not oppress a stranger, since you yourselves know the feelings of a stranger, for you also were strangers in the land of Egypt

You do jump to conclusions all around.. and I am not surprised after reading your posts.

 

[2ndpillar]

You do jump to conclusions all around.. and I am not surprised after reading your posts.

Now a question is a conclusion? And by the way, you didn't answer the question.

 

[sooda]

Now a question is a conclusion? And by the way, you didn't answer the question.

Nope. My husband was a blue-eyed Methodist.

The Jews considered the Gentiles inferior and not quite human. Read your Bible.

 

[PruePhillip]

We have the Hebrew Old Testament and the New Testament that evolved in a period between about 700 BCE to 400 AD. As far as the NT the Church Fathers compiled, edited and redacted the books of the NT from different sources, before the Roman Church (RCC).
.

The NT was written mostly between 33 AD and 63 AD. Revelations is the odd one out.
These authors were not aware of the destruction of the Temple. Paul, Peter and Luke
were martyred in Rome by Nero.
I see no evidence of further redaction of the NT, other than minor translation quibbles.

 

[PruePhillip]

Jerusalem sits on seven hills.

Ancient Jerusalem: The Village, the Town, the City - Biblical Archaeology Society

Really? what other city sits in seven hills?
The context of the seven hills isn't Jerusalem - that city was
long gone as a center of religion by the 2nd Century.

 

[PruePhillip]

Correct. Vespasian was recalled to Rome to become Emperor. Titus was in charge in Jerusalem.

The Gentiles trampled Jerusalem for 42 months... but the Romans weren't there for 42 months because of a political crisis in Rome so its probably the zealots who were running amok ..

There were multiple nations that trampled Jerusalem from the fall of 66 AD until the spring of 70 AD when the Romans were not in the city. Wikipedia gives this summary of those who fought the hardest against the Romans:

“During the Great Rebellion (66-70 CE) the Galileans and Idumeans were the most adamant fighters against Rome; they fought the Romans to the death when many Judeans were ready to accept peace terms.”


The three main Zealot leaders (Eleazar ben Simon, John Levi, and Simon Bar Giora) who orchestrated so much bloodshed in Jerusalem were not from Judea. John was from Gischala (Galilee) and Simon was from Gerasa (Wars 4.9.3), which at the time was one of the cities of the Roman Decapolis and today is in Jordan. By the time that Simon “got possession of Jerusalem” in April 69 AD (Wars 4.9.12), he had an army of more than 40,000 people, including Idumeans, who he had gathered from the countryside.

Are you referring to Jerusalem being "trampled" by the Gentiles in context of Jesus'
prophecy? If so you are milleniums out. Jesus' timeline for this trampling was the
fall of the Gentiles, ie collapse of Christianity. This happened in 1967 when the Jews
took back Jerusalem.

 

[sooda]

Are you referring to Jerusalem being "trampled" by the Gentiles in context of Jesus'
prophecy? If so you are milleniums out. Jesus' timeline for this trampling was the
fall of the Gentiles, ie collapse of Christianity. This happened in 1967 when the Jews
took back Jerusalem.

The prophesy is about the destruction of the Temple and the tribulation.. The army of Vespasian and Titus were Gentiles.

To cast 1967 as prophesy is the work of men like Tim LaHaye and Hal Lindsey.

 

[sooda]

Really? what other city sits in seven hills?
The context of the seven hills isn't Jerusalem - that city was
long gone as a center of religion by the 2nd Century.

All thru the Bible Israel is referred to as the harlot chasing after false gods. No one thought Rome was the Whore of Babylon until Martin Luther came along. I think you misread 7 hills because you have been mislead by futurism. The Scofield heresy didn't catch on until the Great Depression and the Dust Bowl years.

 

[BilliardsBall]

The "falling away" refers to Matthew 26:31 in which Yeshua quotes Zechariah 13:7, which is about the Shepherd being struck and the sheep will be scattered. As for "sinless", according to 1 John 3:9,"No one who is born of God practices sin, because His seed abides in him; and he cannot sin, because he is born of God". Which leads us to 1 John 3:8,"the one who practices sin is of the devil".

You are skipping hundreds of verses about how Jesus will regather the sheep, including two whole flocks (Jewish and Gentile)!

1 John 3:8 must be balanced with earlier 1 John statements like, "Whoever claims no sin is lying."

 

[BilliardsBall]

Matthew 19:17 is not about your false gospel of grace/cross, and being "saved". It is about entering into life. The Commandments listed are how to love your neighbor as yourself, which is in effect loving God. As for your Roman church and her daughters, they bow down to the "beast", the "false prophet", and the daughter of Babylon, and wear the "mark of the beast". Their life is a lie, and a false witness to their neighbor, which is indeed breaking the Commandments. As for Yeshua's version of adultery, just looking at a women with lust could prevent one from entering into the "kingdom of heaven" (Matthew 5:20-28). Apparently, according to Jimmy Carter, he failed to make the cut on this issue alone.

Commandments to "show" an omniscient God I love Him (which He would know before I "showed" Him) = Works.

The gospel has no works in it.

 

[shunyadragon]

The NT was written mostly between 33 AD and 63 AD.

There is absolutely no evidence that the NT as we know it today was written between 33 and 63 AD. There is indirect evidence that a simply gospel (Q?) may have existed before 50-63 AD.

If you have specific evidence please cite it.

Revelations is the odd one out.

Yes, there were a number such books available after 50 AD and this one was selected.

These authors were not aware of the destruction of the Temple.

Not necessarily true. It is unknown since we have no texts before 50 AD.

Paul, Peter and Luke
were martyred in Rome by Nero.

OK, but not particularly meaningful in dating the gospels,

I see no evidence of further redaction of the NT, other than minor translation quibbles.

There is a lot of evidence that the gospels were edited, redacted and written in their present form over a period of time after 50 AD.

It is fairly well documented that I John 5:7-8 were added.

 

[PruePhillip]

OK, but not particularly meaningful in dating the gospels,

Re Martyrdom of Peter, Paul and Luke.
Depends what you mean by the 'Gospels'
are you referring to the Epistles too?

Luke completed his Gospel account, but did not really finish
his Acts. He was with Paul in his last journey to Rome, and
it is here his Acts abruptly finishes.

Not sure how you would prove something was redacted.
I suggest the only redaction I suggest is plausible is the end
of Mark's Gospel. But even here what might be 'missing'
could simply have been missing in extant copies of Mark.
Don't know.

 

[PruePhillip]

Not necessarily true. It is unknown since we have no texts before 50 AD.

You referring to Paul's earliest letter? I have no doubt that John was written as it
happened. It's possible that Matthew was written as it happened - Matthew employed
a form of 'shorthand' which he learned for his profession. What Jesus preached was
considered (logically speaking) to be of such significance and weight that people would
have wanted to record it as it was spoken.
Don't confused 'first written' with 'earliest manuscript found.'

 

[sooda]

So I should not (of course!) fall away from trusting Jesus and rejecting false doctrine/false gods. I agree, but I adhere to trusting Jesus, not my lack of sin/following the 613 laws. Respectfully, I would question anyone who claims to be sinless (except Jesus Christ), and I think 1 John and other chapters strongly question that, too.

My post was about scripture NOT you.