If the Bible was first discovered in the Qumran caves near the Dead Sea...

[sooda]

The Nabateans are most likely of Arabic origin, as in sons of Ishmael, and the Idumeans, were of Edom/Esau. Edom will be part of the end (Joel 3:19), the Nabateans, who were engulfed by the Roman empire, are only now referenced as the combination of iron and clay (Daniel 2:34). They are no longer a singular kingdom.

Edom no longer exists. How could they be part of the end?

The 12 Tribes of Ishmael

Nabajoth

More information is known about the dependence of Ishmael's eldest son, Nabajoth than any of the others. In the Bible, Qedar and the tribe of Nebayot were renown for sheep raising. Isaiah 60:7. Their names are frequently found together in Assyrian records.

Nabajoth is specifically mentioned by the Jewish historian Josephus, who identified the Nabataeans of his time with Ishmael's eldest son. He claimed that the Nabataeans lived through the whole country extending from the Euphrates to the Red Sea, and referred to this area as 'Nabatene,' or the area that the Nabataeans ranged in.

Josephus goes on to say that it was the Nabataeans who conferred their names on the Arabian nations. (Jewish Antiquities I.22,1) Josephus lived and wrote during the time that the Nabataeans were in existence, and supposedly, he obtained his information directly from the Nabataeans themselves. These Nabataeans spoke and wrote an early form of Arabic and thus they were often referred to as 'Arabs' by Greek and Roman historians.

Previous to this, Assyrian records tell us of King Ashurbanipal (668-663 BC) who was fighting with the 'Nabaiateans of Arabia.' Then in 703 BC a group of Chaldaeans and neighboring tribes rebelled against Sennacherib, the Assyrian ruler. The ancient records of Tiglath Pilezeer III list, among the rebels, the Hagaranu (possibly the descendants of Hagar, the mother of Ishmael), the Nabatu (very possibly the descendants of Nebayoth, the eldest son of Ishmael) and the Kedarites (descendants of Ishmael's second son). According to the records, these tribes fled from Assyria into the Arabian Desert and could not be conquered.

The Assyrian kingdom eventually broke into two as two brothers began to rule, one the King of Babylonia and the other the King of Assyria.

In 652 BC conflict broke out between these two brothers, and in support of the Babylonian king, the Kedarites invaded western Assyria, were defeated, and fled to Natnu the leader of the Nabayat for safety. (As described in the records of Esarhaddan) Later the Kedarites and the Nabayat attacked the western boarders of Assyria but were defeated. After their defeat, Natnu's son, Nuhuru was declared the leader of the Nabatu.

contined
Nabataea: 12 Tribes of Ishamel: Nabajoth

 

[2ndpillar]

Edom no longer exists. How could they be part of the end?

Apparently, your belief is in the righteousness of Wahhabism, and the teachings of the false prophet Paul, and not the truth of the prophets. See following quote from Joel 3:18-19.

Joel 3:18-19 18"In that day the mountains will drip new wine, and the hills will flow with milk; all the ravines of Judah will run with water. A fountain will flow out of the LORD's house and will water the valley of acacias. 19 But Egypt will be desolate, Edom a desert waste, because of violence done to the people of Judah, in whose land they shed innocent blood.

 

[sooda]

Apparently, your belief is in the righteousness of Wahhabism, and the teachings of the false prophet Paul, and not the truth of the prophets. See following quote from Joel 3:18-19.

Joel 3:18-19 18"In that day the mountains will drip new wine, and the hills will flow with milk; all the ravines of Judah will run with water. A fountain will flow out of the LORD's house and will water the valley of acacias. 19 But Egypt will be desolate, Edom a desert waste, because of violence done to the people of Judah, in whose land they shed innocent blood.

Wow. "Righteousness of Wahhabis"? You certainly are assuming a lot.. or just projecting. Wahhabis just wanted to simplify Islam .. to take it back to the early days before politics and innovations and false prophets... like some Christian denominations.

Egypt has never been desolate.. nor has Edom. Petra and Madain Saleh are pretty outstanding.. and little Jordan is leading the push for a Red Sea to Dead Sea Canal that will restore the Dead Sea, generate electricity and desalinated water.. AND restore the water table of the Jordan Basin hydrology.

There are a couple of basics.. Everything in the OT is grossly exaggerated and the Hebrews were just another Canaanite tribe that was envious of the more successful Canaanites and the Babylonians.

Ancient Jerusalem: The Village, the Town, the City - Biblical Archaeology Society

 

[2ndpillar]

Wow. "Righteousness of Wahhabis"? You certainly are assuming a lot.. or just projecting. Wahhabis just wanted to simplify Islam .. to take it back to the early days before politics and innovations and false prophets... like some Christian denominations.

The "Wahhabis" simply wanted to clean their new Islamic religion from the worship of saints, etc., which was a carryover from the forced conversion of their "Christian" ancestors. It is like the converted harlot, who can deal with them.

 

[2ndpillar]

Egypt has never been desolate.. nor has Edom. Petra and Madain Saleh are pretty outstanding.. and little Jordan is leading the push for a Red Sea to Dead Sea Canal that will restore the Dead Sea, generate electricity and desalinated water.. AND restore the water table of the Jordan Basin hydrology.

If you would read the context of Joel 3, you will find that Edom will be made "desolate" after the "valley of judgment" which is aimed at the surrounding nations, of which Esau, would be one of many, including Ishmael, Moab, Philistines, Hargarites, etc (Psalms 83). They all come under different names, such as the Philistine territory is now the Gaza strip. And the "valley of YHWH's judgement" comes in the future, when the surrounding nations try and "capture" "Jerusalem" (Zechariah 14:1-3), which has been an ongoing hope of the surrounding Arab states.

 

[sooda]

The "Wahhabis" simply wanted to clean their new Islamic religion from the worship of saints, etc., which was a carryover from the forced conversion of their "Christian" ancestors. It is like the converted prostitute, who can deal with them.

What Christian ancestors?

There were a few Nestorian Christians on Tarut Island and in Najran but no where else on the Arabian peninsula... up to about the 7th century AD.

Al Wahab wasn't even born until 1703 AD long after Muslim Spain.

 

[sooda]

If you would read the context of Joel 3, you will find that Edom will be made "desolate" after the "valley of judgment" which is aimed at the surrounding nations, of which Esau, would be one of many, including Ishmael, Moab, Philistines, Hargarites, etc. They all come under different names, such as the Philistine territory is now the Gaza strip. And the "valley of YHWH's judgement" comes in the future, when the surrounding nations try and "capture" "Jerusalem" (Zechariah 14:1-3).

"valley of YHWH's judgement" is the Kidron Valley.

They already did that. Titus army was made up of many peoples not just Romans.

Nebuchadnezzar conquered Egypt and exiled its inhabitants such that they were "scattered among the nations" and Egypt "laid waste and was desolate" for 40 years. The calculation of 40 years is: 18 remaining years of Nebuchadnezzar's reign + 22 years of his son's reign.

 

[2ndpillar]

There were a few Nestorian Christians on Tarut Island and in Najran but no where else on the Arabian peninsula... up to about the 7th century AD.

Najran is the home of the "Christians" converted to Islam, whereas the taint of saint worship, etc., had to be expunged.

 

[2ndpillar]

"valley of YHWH's judgement" is the Kidron Valley.

They already did that. Titus army was made up of many peoples not just Romans.

Nebuchadnezzar conquered Egypt and exiled its inhabitants such that they were "scattered among the nations" and Egypt "laid waste and was desolate" for 40 years. The calculation of 40 years is: 18 remaining years of Nebuchadnezzar's reign + 22 years of his son's reign.

The "valley of judgment", is a judgment against the nations (Joel 3:2), not by the nations/Gentiles/Romans, and is to happen at Har-Magedon (Revelation 16:16), not your valley of "Kidron". And it will include the Romans, Persians, Greeks, Babyonians, and the combined iron and clay, of Roman and Muslim, all to be crushed at "the same time" (Daniel 2:35). The Romans walked away from Kidron with their "kingdom" intact", which will not be the case in the "valley of judgment" per Joel 3:2 & 12 and Zechariah 14 and Revelation 16:16-21. Your apparent partial Preterist theories kind of let 2000 years of history fall off a cliff.

 

[2ndpillar]

Nebuchadnezzar conquered Egypt and exiled its inhabitants such that they were "scattered among the nations" and Egypt "laid waste and was desolate" for 40 years. The calculation of 40 years is: 18 remaining years of Nebuchadnezzar's reign + 22 years of his son's reign.

Were did that come from? Daniel 2 is about the kingdoms which captured Jerusalem, not about Egypt. Joel 3:2 is about the valley of judgment, when the nations will endeavor to "capture" "Jerusalem" again, and will be judged, such as with Revelation 16:16-23 and Zechariah 14:1-3. Poor old Nebuchadnezzar is dead. And the only demon spirit still in play is the demon spirit of Julius Caesar, who was made a god by virtue of a vote in the Roman Senate, and lived on as the Augustus Caesars.

 

[2ndpillar]

Al Wahab wasn't even born until 1703 AD long after Muslim Spain.

Apparently no one decided to clean up the mess created by converting "Christians" to Muslims, until the time of your Al Wahab. Now the Wahhabis inspired ISIS apparently put "Christians" in industrial driers and bread machines to clean up.

The Islamic State of Iraq and Syria (ISIS) killed around 250 Christian children by kneading them to death in rotating bread machines, according to a grieving mother who survived the militant group's atrocities in Syria.
isis puts children in bread machine - Bing

 

[sooda]

Were did that come from? Daniel 2 is about the kingdoms which captured Jerusalem, not about Egypt. Joel 3:2 is about the valley of judgment, when the nations will endeavor to "capture" "Jerusalem" again, and will be judged, such as with Revelation 16:16-23 and Zechariah 14:1-3. Poor old Nebuchadnezzar is dead. And the only demon spirit still in play is the demon spirit of Julius Caesar, who was made a god by virtue of a vote in the Roman Senate, and lived on as the Augustus Caesars.

What are you calling the Valley of Judgment? Are you talking about the Kidron Valley?
Daniel was talking about the past... not the future.

 

[sooda]

Apparently no one decided to clean up the mess created by converting "Christians" to Muslims, until the time of your Al Wahab. Now the Wahhabis inspired ISIS apparently put "Christians" in industrial driers and bread machines to clean up.

The Islamic State of Iraq and Syria (ISIS) killed around 250 Christian children by kneading them to death in rotating bread machines, according to a grieving mother who survived the militant group's atrocities in Syria.
isis puts children in bread machine - Bing

That must have been one HUGE bread machine.

Are you insane? ISIS isn't Wahhabi.. They kill Wahhabi... and everyone else I might add.. They declared war on Arabia in 2011 and have carried out more than 2 dozen suicide bombings in the kingdom.

No one converted Christians to Islam in Arabia.. Even in Spain, the Moors conquered the Visigoths.

 

[2ndpillar]

What are you calling the Valley of Judgment? Are you talking about the Kidron Valley?
Daniel was talking about the past... not the future.

Daniel 2:35 was talking future. Daniel lived in the time of Nebuchadnezzar. The prophecies of Daniel 2:35 were about Babylon, Persia, Greeks, Rome, and a combination of iron and clay, which would be Rome and Muslims, which would all be "crushed all at the same time". If "all at the same time" could be within the span of 100 years, then only Persia hasn't been crushed at the same time as the others. The last crushing of the iron and clay was the crushing of Rome/Germany/iron, and the clay/Ottomans/Muslims, at the valley of Megiddo in 1918, or the crushing of Rome/Russians/iron and the clay/Ottomans/Muslims, in the area of the Golan heights, which is 93 kilometers from Megiddo 50 years later. Now Iran, and it's Hezbollah, and Syria have to do is make a move, and they will be crushed again. Daniel was talking about the present, the here and now.

 

[sooda]

Najran is the home of the "Christians" converted to Islam, whereas the taint of saint worship, etc., had to be expunged.

LOL.. Nope. they weren't converted to Islam.

Nestorians didn't worship saints.

 

[sooda]

Daniel 2:35 was talking future. Daniel lived in the time of Nebuchadnezzar.

The prophecies of Daniel 2:35 were about Babylon, Persia, Greeks, Rome, and a combination of iron and clay, which would be Rome and Muslims, which would all be "crushed all at the same time". If "all at the same time" could be within the span of 100 years, then only Persia hasn't been crushed at the same time as the others. The last crushing of the iron and clay was the crushing of Rome/Germany/iron, and the clay/Ottomans/Muslims, at the valley of Megiddo in 1918, or the crushing of Rome/Russians/iron and the clay/Ottomans/Muslims, in the area of the Golan heights, which is 93 kilometers from Megiddo 50 years later. Now Iran, and it's Hezbollah, and Syria have to do is make a move, and they will be crushed again. Daniel was talking about the present, the here and now.

Daniel was writing about the past. He wasn't born for 300 years AFTER the Babylonian exile. He was living during the Maccabean Revolt and the Abomination of Desolation which was Antiochus IV Epiphanes... about 165-168 AD.

 

[2ndpillar]

That must have been one HUGE bread machine.

Are you insane? ISIS isn't Wahhabi.. They kill Wahhabi... and everyone else I might add.. They declared war on Arabia in 2011 and have carried out more than 2 dozen suicide bombings in the kingdom.

No one converted Christians to Islam in Arabia.. Even in Spain, the Moors conquered the Visigoths.

Wahhabism inspired ISIS. That KSA can't control their own exported religion is their problem. Your straw men are getting stranger and stranger. What do the Visigoths have to do with the price of tea, and the conversion of "Christians" to Islam, which is an aim of Islam to defeat or convert all of the infidels, or at least bleed them dry through taxes.

sura 9:29 Kill the Jews and the Christians if they do not convert to Islam or refuse to pay Jizya tax.

Wahhabism to ISIS: how Saudi Arabia exported the main ...
https://www.newstatesman.com/world-affairs/2014/11/wahhabism-isis...
Wahhabism to ISIS: how Saudi Arabia exported the main source of global terrorism. In 1922, as Mustafa Kemal Atatürk rose to power, he completed the Young Turks’ racial purge by forcibly deporting all Greek-speaking Christians from Turkey; in 1925 he declared null …

 

[2ndpillar]

LOL.. Nope. they weren't converted to Islam.

Nestorians didn't worship saints.

There were two sects of "Christians" in Najran

The Christians of Najran were massacred in 524 by the Himyarite king, Yusuf As'ar Dhu Nuwas. The Najranite Christians, like other Southern Arabian Christian communities, had close connections with the ecclesiastical authorities in Byzantium and Abyssinia. They were identified by virtue of their religion as "pro-Axumite" and "pro-Byzantine".

The Christians of Najran were divided into two sects. One drew on a variety of Nestorianism[citation needed], which a local merchant had acquired during a sojourn in al-Hira, and took back to Najran sometime during the reign of the Sassanid ruler Yazdegerd II. The other was a form of anti-Chalcedonianism.[4] had suffered an earlier, but brief, stint of persecution with the advent of the new dynasty under the Himyarite ruler Shurihbi'īl Yakkuf (c.468-480)
Christian community of Najran - Wikipedia

 

[sooda]

Wahhabism inspired ISIS. That KSA can't control their own exported religion is their problem. Your straw men are getting stranger and stranger. What do the Visigoths have to do with the price of tea, and the conversion of "Christians" to Islam, which is an aim of Islam to defeat or convert all of the infidels, or at least bleed them dry through taxes.

sura 9:29 Kill the Jews and the Christians if they do not convert to Islam or refuse to pay Jizya tax.

Wahhabism to ISIS: how Saudi Arabia exported the main ...
https://www.newstatesman.com/world-affairs/2014/11/wahhabism-isis...
Wahhabism to ISIS: how Saudi Arabia exported the main source of global terrorism. In 1922, as Mustafa Kemal Atatürk rose to power, he completed the Young Turks’ racial purge by forcibly deporting all Greek-speaking Christians from Turkey; in 1925 he declared null …

NewwStatesmen are a pack of idiots.

Jizya is LESS tax than Muslims pay and is only for able-bodied men.. .. I don't think there have been any dhimmis for over 300 years.

ISIS has NOTHING to do with Wahhabis. ISIS were Iraqi military and Baathists NOT Wahhabis.. Saudis don't go along with Baathism. AQ is Deobandi mixed with Muslim Brotherood ideas.

Have you ever been out of the US?

 

[sooda]

There were two sects of "Christians" in Najran

The Christians of Najran were massacred in 524 by the Himyarite king, Yusuf As'ar Dhu Nuwas. The Najranite Christians, like other Southern Arabian Christian communities, had close connections with the ecclesiastical authorities in Byzantium and Abyssinia. They were identified by virtue of their religion as "pro-Axumite" and "pro-Byzantine".

The Christians of Najran were divided into two sects. One drew on a variety of Nestorianism[citation needed], which a local merchant had acquired during a sojourn in al-Hira, and took back to Najran sometime during the reign of the Sassanid ruler Yazdegerd II. The other was a form of anti-Chalcedonianism.[4] had suffered an earlier, but brief, stint of persecution with the advent of the new dynasty under the Himyarite ruler Shurihbi'īl Yakkuf (c.468-480)
Christian community of Najran - Wikipedia

There were two sects of "Christians" in Najran

The Christians of Najran were massacred in 524 by the Himyarite king, Yusuf As'ar Dhu Nuwas. The Najranite Christians, like other Southern Arabian Christian communities, had close connections with the ecclesiastical authorities in Byzantium and Abyssinia. They were identified by virtue of their religion as "pro-Axumite" and "pro-Byzantine".

The Christians of Najran were divided into two sects. One drew on a variety of Nestorianism[citation needed], which a local merchant had acquired during a sojourn in al-Hira, and took back to Najran sometime during the reign of the Sassanid ruler Yazdegerd II. The other was a form of anti-Chalcedonianism.[4] had suffered an earlier, but brief, stint of persecution with the advent of the new dynasty under the Himyarite ruler Shurihbi'īl Yakkuf (c.468-480)
Christian community of Najran - Wikipedia

Yes, I told you yesterday about the connection to the Christian king of Ethiopia.

You do know that Saudi Arabia is NOT Persia, don't you?

There was some remnant of Christianity in Arabia until about the 12th century and a Bishopric in Tarut ..​