If the Gods Really Existed, Why Would They Demand Reverence?

[Alex_G]

If the gods really existed, then why would they be any more likely to demand worship and reverence from us than we are to demand such things from an amoeba? Surely, if they existed, there would be some other reason to worship and revere them than that they desired us to do so. But what could that reason be?

If we say we should revere and worship the gods for our own sake, then how is reverence and worship of them beneficial to us?

Discuss, please.

In determining the existence of a god or gods to be real in so far as it is believed by people and influences their actions and behaviour we can begin to unpack it. (Because such an existence while not materially real in the way we define most things as existing, is a form of influential existence that is very real and measurable). An idea is a powerful thing.

The creation of formal organised religion offered a great opportunity in the control of people. In a world of inherent inequality there were those (mostly the few) who had either wealth, talent or ability that helped define their lives and their actions. Their version of the good life was rooted in being the best version of themselves they could, maximising their virtues so to speak. The other group of people (of which most were) had no particular talents, wealth or abilities of their own. In such circumstances there develops a redefining of what entails the good life, a re-sentiment of the powerful group, and a refocus on 'not having' being the virtue for them.

This group being inherently 'weaker' through lacking skills such as literacy, knowledge, ability and so forth were a perfect target for the institution of religion. Through dogmas of suffering and restraint their lives and the redefined virtue of 'going without' is truly validated, and in that way the people are empowered. This hook is used to peddle this population into a servile and tame and essentially safe peoples. (Because it is ironically this group who banded together could cause revolutions).

The fantastical imagery of religion; God, the angles and trumpets, heaven and hell all serve to engage this group and give the religion true authority over the virtues and meanings of life.

To cultivate a practice of reverence in God or worship of God was in effect giving the people an action they could do no matter what skills, wealth or abilities they had (or lacked) which would justify themselves and give them meaning in the context of an unfair world in which they lived, in which their suffering and hardship was redefined as the virtuous life.

This worshiping action was supercharged with meaning and authority through the theology constructed around it which injects God into the equation. The reality is that this reverence and worship of God likely serves the people who are doing it the least, and really represents the servile worship of the people in charge of such an institution via the proxy 'God'. That it could be considered a prison, a certain kind of slavery the prospects of breaking free from being beyond difficult.

This permeating and insidious idea of 'virtuous worship of god' planted in the minds of the people, i think represents one aspect of an institution whose business is the control of people.

 

[GoodbyeDave]

I find this sort of thread pointless.

If you believe a a god or gods who are responsible for creating or maintaining the universe, you will feel gratitude and you will worship. Most people do it. Even in China, after the persecution of religions under Mao, the majority still practice a religion.

If you are an atheist or agnostic you won't.

Neither side will really understand the other. Each will state their opinion and feel the better for it. Why bother?

 

[CynthiaCypher]

The Gods demand reverence only because they want enthrallment. If revere Mammon (money), then you become enthralled to money, if you revere Jehovah (power), then you are enthralled to power.

The purpose is to enslave.

 

[HexBomb]

If the gods really existed, then why would they be any more likely to demand worship and reverence from us than we are to demand such things from an amoeba

I've known people who have children because they desire unconditional love, I've known people who get dogs for the same reason. There are people who the only 'happy' spot in their lives are when their pets are begging them for food or pets and they are being rewarded with companionship and cuddles.

Of course, I have a cat, so...the only one who she thinks deserves unconditional love is her.

 

[Andrew Odinson]

If there is a god, I don't see why it would need to have it's own ego stroked, assuming it even had an ego.

I think the anthromorphized deities are made in man's image rather than the other way around, which is why they're portrayed as petty, narcissistic, and brutal. They are the projections of man's own ego, fear, and anger.

Man has these qualities because we are born of the gods blood. While gods may be petty, narcissistic and brutal they are also loving, brave, kind, wise, and so on. We get all of our positive qualiteis as well as the negative. But pagan gods are closer to human than the gods of the Abraham tradition. The gods do not demand worship or need their ego stroke. My past post on this thread already state the reason for worship. Your argument seems to be one born of misunderstanding of the ancient cultures before you that had anthropomorphized deities.

 

[Jainarayan]

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[Father Heathen]

Same reason you need your ego stroked. To encourage good behavior.

That has far more to do with empathy than it does ego.

You worship God so God will send good things your way.

So, it's not a genuine reverence, but rather an empty show with an expectation of reward?

 

[Father Heathen]

Man has these qualities because we are born of the gods blood. While gods may be petty, narcissistic and brutal they are also loving, brave, kind, wise, and so on. We get all of our positive qualiteis as well as the negative. But pagan gods are closer to human than the gods of the Abraham tradition. The gods do not demand worship or need their ego stroke. My past post on this thread already state the reason for worship. Your argument seems to be one born of misunderstanding of the ancient cultures before you that had anthropomorphized deities.

An infinite, incorporeal, all pervasive, all encompassing, omnimax being/force also happens to be a fellow great ape, antics and all?

Nah.

 

[Alceste]

Because they're narcissists? Or the people who thought them up projected their narcissism onto them?

Perhaps the authorities among the people who dreamed up the Abrahamic deity were narcissists and they made a logical leap: ruler = narcissist, therefore supreme ruler = supreme narcissist.

 

[Nakosis]

That has far more to do with empathy than it does ego.

Sorry, not sure what empathy has to do with controlling behavior.

So, it's not a genuine reverence, but rather an empty show with an expectation of reward?

Sorry think I'm confusing worship with reverence.

Reverence, you show respect for or hold something sacred. I think then the other poster had it right. You show deep respect for God because you believe in God. Not particularly that God demands it.

Gods demand worship. I think reverence is something we choose to show.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

I think it's pretty clear that god prefers the company of vapid groupies over complex people with ideas and minds of their own. It makes perfect sense that an all-powerful entity would want to spend eterntiy with throngs of mindless sheep who do nothing but fawn over their lord and master.

 

[Andrew Odinson]

An infinite, incorporeal, all pervasive, all encompassing, omnimax being/force also happens to be a fellow great ape, antics and all?

Nah.

That is quite a claim with no proof. Who said they are infinite, incorporeal, all pervasive, all encompassing at all?

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Perhaps the authorities among the people who dreamed up the Abrahamic deity were narcissists and they made a logical leap: ruler = narcissist, therefore supreme ruler = supreme narcissist.

Seems likely. Religion is often a tool for maintaining social hierarchies, after all.

 

[Father Heathen]

That is quite a claim with no proof. Who said they are infinite, incorporeal, all pervasive, all encompassing at all?

Are my standards too high for gods?

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Are my standards too high for gods?

That's a monotheistic definition of god. Andrew is a polytheist.

 

[Sabour]

It is what makes us follow the commandments. No matter how much we say God is the greatest, God won't become any greater because he is already the greatest. Our mentality is that we follow who we praise. That's why worshiping God benefits us and helps us in following his commandments

 

[Father Heathen]

That's a monotheistic definition of god. Andrew is a polytheist.

Ah, so quantity over quality?

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Ah, so quantity over quality?

Well, it's more that polytheists don't view their gods as being all-loving, all-powerful and present everywhere.

 

[Robert.Evans]

God I believe invests him/her self into all levels of existence. At some level, maybe at at any level where God views himself separate from the whole comes self-awareness along with an ego. This ego responses to admiration.

Maybe at some levels of existence God demands reverence. However our benefit is to illicit a response. Hopefully a favorable response.

God is also fully invested in all levels of existence. So all levels exist within you as well. So you are trying to illicit an internal response. Trying to achieve a connection to this unity which is the essence of all existence.

Mostly I agree with that. Interesting

 

[StarryNightshade]

If the gods really existed, then why would they be any more likely to demand worship and reverence from us than we are to demand such things from an amoeba? Surely, if they existed, there would be some other reason to worship and revere them than that they desired us to do so. But what could that reason be?

If we say we should revere and worship the gods for our own sake, then how is reverence and worship of them beneficial to us?

Discuss, please.

If the Gods do exist, I don't believe that they demand reverence. I don't think its really beneficial to them.

However, being that humans are creatures of habit, worship, ritual, philosophy, mysticism, and reverence, I think it can be beneficial to those who value such things. To help us grow as spiritual individuals, to experience and try to understand the nature of the divine, and to learn.

It's completely for our benefit. Not for the Gods.