Buttercup
Veteran Member
The most common method of suicide in the US is by firearms.
https://afsp.org/about-suicide/suicide-statistics/
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If the Orlando murderers don't represent all....
- Thread starter jeager106
- Start date
https://afsp.org/about-suicide/suicide-statistics/
YmirGF
Bodhisattva in Recovery
On average, there are 117 suicides per day.
Firearms account for almost 50% of all suicides
Men die by suicide 3.5x more often than women
White males accounted for 7 of 10 suicides in 2014.
The rate of suicide is highest in middle age — white men in particular.
My guess is that many men use a gun because suicide is really something you do not want to fail at. A gun gives you reasonable assurance that your task will be successful.
As I wrote that there was a roll of thunder.... Eeek!
A Vestigial Mote
Well-Known Member
That's probably because it is considered one of the fastest methods and most assured mthods, and therefore one of the ones with a lesser term of suffering. I'd probably choose blowing my brains out over hanging, suffocation, slitting wrists - and definitely over some of the other methods that have been discussed.
And like others have said - take that method away, and suicides would likely just seek out the next least-painful/most-expedient methods of doing yourself in. Jumping would probably be my next go-to if I were after my own demise.
YmirGF
Bodhisattva in Recovery
Yeah, like jumping will kill you. It's not the jumping the kills, it's the sudden stop.
Big Brother is watching.
Orwellian?
Orwell anyone?
What is the chance that a legal automobile driver will kill someone on the roadways?
"In 2011, 9,878 people were killed in alcohol-impaired-driving crashes. These alcohol-impaired driving fatalities accounted for 31 percent of the total motor vehicle traffic fatalities in the United States."
Ban alcohol!
Oh,we did that.
Didn't work.
I realize that drunk drivers don't intentionally set out to kill someone with a 1500 pound
unguided missel.
Intentions, however, are irrelevant.
I recall an "accident" that killed an entire family of six.
The offending driver had no ill intent of course. ( or did he?) He was hardly injured.
Intentions are irrelevant.
I recall another "accident" that killed a number of innocents including the offending
driver.
Turns out he was mentally ill. An apparent suicide perhaps?
Little comfort to the families of the dead and injured.
I know the "accidents" were not intentional. Were they?
But a gun and deliberate murder really is a different situation.
I realize that fully.
Just saying........................
(CNN)Three people have died and dozens more are injured after a man drove into a crowd -- on purpose, the local government says -- Saturday in the Austrian city of Graz.
Much, much, more on the net if interested.
According to Dr. Gary Kleck, criminologist at Florida State University in Tallahassee and author of "Point Blank: Guns and Violence in America," a book used by many in the gun debate, 800,000-2,500,000 crimes are stopped by guns each year. The numbers are from different studies.
http://www.answers.com/Q/How_many_crimes_are_stopped_by_gun_owners
Just keep an open mind not ruled by emotions please.
Everyone has an absolute right to opinions. Even me.
Opinions are like @@@%oles. Everyone has one.
(sorry. no ill intent)
Twilight Hue
Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
A Vestigial Mote
Well-Known Member
Well, if you're able to jump at all it means that there will be a "sudden stop". Otherwise it would be "traversing in a singular direction with an initial boost of acceleration". Gravity being a very key component to a "jump". Select a high enough height, on a universal body with a strong enough gravitational pull, and you've done the job.
That is to say - you knew what I meant.
It's not the bullet that kills you, it's the sudden hole.
Miscreants will always find ways to find or make a weapon to cause hard.
Recall the violence in Ireland where gun violence and BOMBINGS
was rampant. So rampant that it became a way of life to accept the violence as
part of living there.
Google that also if ya likes.
I approved purchase of a handgun and a year latter got a visit from the F.B.I.
asking questions.
Seems the guy I approved for the purchase was supplying arms to the Irish
factions to commit executions.
The purchaser was in dutch, not me.
The purchaser was a black guy PAID to buy guns legally and they were then
smuggled in Irish factions.
Turns out the purchaser used fake i.d. Doubt he was ever caught.
Don't know for sure.
The availability of guns IS an issue.
I realize that.
In a perfect world there would be NO weapons.
I'd gladly have mine melted down and made into "pruning hooks" if
we could all live in that world.
But for now I'll keep mine and harvest some game for dinner thank you very much.
Recall the violence in Ireland where gun violence and BOMBINGS
was rampant. So rampant that it became a way of life to accept the violence as
part of living there.
Google that also if ya likes.
I approved purchase of a handgun and a year latter got a visit from the F.B.I.
asking questions.
Seems the guy I approved for the purchase was supplying arms to the Irish
factions to commit executions.
The purchaser was in dutch, not me.
The purchaser was a black guy PAID to buy guns legally and they were then
smuggled in Irish factions.
Turns out the purchaser used fake i.d. Doubt he was ever caught.
Don't know for sure.
The availability of guns IS an issue.
I realize that.
In a perfect world there would be NO weapons.
I'd gladly have mine melted down and made into "pruning hooks" if
we could all live in that world.
But for now I'll keep mine and harvest some game for dinner thank you very much.
It's not the bullet that kills you, it's the sudden hole.
Yup. Been there seen that.
Sometimes it isn't just a hole but a missing head! YUK!
What is wrong to suggest that gun ownership is a huge responsibility that can require periodic checks to ensure the safety of that being, their family and the public?
Its a huge leap of faith to suggest that a responsible gun owner at one point in their life is a responsible gun owner through out their lives.
Skwim
Veteran Member
And it sounds like you have no better idea of what you're talking about.
Assault weapon is a term used in the United States to define some types of firearms. The definition varies among regulating jurisdictions, but usually includes semi-automatic firearms with a detachable magazine and a pistol grip, and sometimes other features such as a flash suppressor or barrel shroud.
Some firearms are specified by name. At the time that the now-defunct Federal Assault Weapons Ban passed in 1994, the U.S. Justice Department said, "In general, assault weapons are semiautomatic firearms with a large magazine of ammunition that were designed and configured for rapid fire and combat use." The origin of the term has been attributed to legislators, gun control groups, the media, and the firearms industry itself. It is sometimes conflated with the term "assault rifle", which refers to selective-fire military rifles that can fire in automatic and / or burst mode.
Source: Wikipedia
Some firearms are specified by name. At the time that the now-defunct Federal Assault Weapons Ban passed in 1994, the U.S. Justice Department said, "In general, assault weapons are semiautomatic firearms with a large magazine of ammunition that were designed and configured for rapid fire and combat use." The origin of the term has been attributed to legislators, gun control groups, the media, and the firearms industry itself. It is sometimes conflated with the term "assault rifle", which refers to selective-fire military rifles that can fire in automatic and / or burst mode.
Source: Wikipedia
What is an assault weapon?
The guns generally identified as assault weapons are semi-automatic rifles that operate on the same principles as semi-automatic handguns.
So what is the popular accepted definition of an assault weapon?
Many of the firearms identified as assault weapons are semi-automatic rifles that look like weapons used by the military. A prominent example is the AR-15 rifle, which was used in the Orlando and Newtown, Conn., shootings.
source
The guns generally identified as assault weapons are semi-automatic rifles that operate on the same principles as semi-automatic handguns.
So what is the popular accepted definition of an assault weapon?
Many of the firearms identified as assault weapons are semi-automatic rifles that look like weapons used by the military. A prominent example is the AR-15 rifle, which was used in the Orlando and Newtown, Conn., shootings.
source
Of course the pro-gun lobby denies that firearms such as the AR-15 deserve to be called an "assault weapon." Why? Because they recognize the disparaging connotation it carries. Not surprising, but a wholly self-serving ploy. The fact is H.R.3355 Violent Crime Control and Law Enforcement Act of 1994 calls semiautomatic fire arms "assault weapons." Here is the relevant portion of the Act:
Section 110102 of Title XI, Subtitle A--Assault weapons
which carries the title "Restriction on manufacture, transfer, and possession of certain semiautomatic assault weapons."
Under par. (b) it says:
(b) DEFINITION OF SEMIAUTOMATIC ASSAULT WEAPON.-Section 921(a) of
title 18, United States Code, is amended by adding at the end the
following new paragraph:
"(30) The term `semiautomatic assault weapon' means-
"(A) any of the firearms, or copies or duplicates of the firearms
in any caliber, known as-
"(i) Norinco, Mitchell, and Poly Technologies Avtomat
Kalashnikovs (all models);
"(ii) Action Arms Israeli Military Industries UZI and Galil;
"(iii) Beretta Ar70 (SC-70);
"(iv) Colt AR-15;
"(v) Fabrique National FN/FAL, FN/LAR, and FNC;
"(vi) SWD M-10, M-11, M-11/9, and M-12;
"(vii) Steyr AUG;
"(viii) INTRATEC TEC-9, TEC-DC9 and TEC-22; and
"(ix) revolving cylinder shotguns, such as (or similar to) the
Street Sweeper and Striker 12;
title 18, United States Code, is amended by adding at the end the
following new paragraph:
"(30) The term `semiautomatic assault weapon' means-
"(A) any of the firearms, or copies or duplicates of the firearms
in any caliber, known as-
"(i) Norinco, Mitchell, and Poly Technologies Avtomat
Kalashnikovs (all models);
"(ii) Action Arms Israeli Military Industries UZI and Galil;
"(iii) Beretta Ar70 (SC-70);
"(iv) Colt AR-15;
"(v) Fabrique National FN/FAL, FN/LAR, and FNC;
"(vi) SWD M-10, M-11, M-11/9, and M-12;
"(vii) Steyr AUG;
"(viii) INTRATEC TEC-9, TEC-DC9 and TEC-22; and
"(ix) revolving cylinder shotguns, such as (or similar to) the
Street Sweeper and Striker 12;
So we see the AR-15 is indeed an assault weapon, of the semi-automatic kind. And, of course, just because the Federal Assault Weapons Ban passed in 1994, is now defunct does not negate the meaning or scope of "assault weapon."
.
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BSM1
What? Me worry?
Sorry, this is garbage. Assault weapons have enjoyed a redefinition in the past couple of years.
Skwim
Veteran Member
Gee, if you say so it must be true.
Only by the NRA types who are desperately trying to disassociate assault weapons from the label. Others, those not caught up in its white-washing agenda, know better.
.
I think very depraved sick people will find excuses to murder people. It's been that way since pre-Biblical times. Before there were guns. I'm not a gun owner and I'm kind of neutral in terms of the gun control issue. The shooter's ex wife knew about his plan that he ended up carrying out. Why didn't she go to the police? This guy has a history that many people who crossed his path, seemed to ignore. He was on the FBI watch list not long ago, and was able to still carry this out? There are a few smoking guns here, no pun. It's not merely a gun control issue, and let's call it a day. Quite a few people could have stopped this person ...and did NOTHING. Eventually, he got a gun, and did what he did. The system is broken. If we ignore the problems that led to this tragedy, we will be doomed to see this happen again. And again. All the while, still pointing our collective finger at the wrong thing, in hopes of a different outcome.
It's not solely about gun control. It's not about Islam. It's not even about terrorism. It's about how this guy should have been stopped a long time ago, and wasn't. He wasn't a good guy who woke up one day, got a gun, and decided to shoot up a night club. Many people paved the way ...for this depraved man. That's the problem, because no one cares in our culture. Until it's too late, and then the culture as usual...reacts. That's all our culture ever does is react.
''All it takes for evil to triumph, is for good men to do nothing.'' - Edmund Burke
It's not solely about gun control. It's not about Islam. It's not even about terrorism. It's about how this guy should have been stopped a long time ago, and wasn't. He wasn't a good guy who woke up one day, got a gun, and decided to shoot up a night club. Many people paved the way ...for this depraved man. That's the problem, because no one cares in our culture. Until it's too late, and then the culture as usual...reacts. That's all our culture ever does is react.
''All it takes for evil to triumph, is for good men to do nothing.'' - Edmund Burke
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I have "modern sporting rifles".
Pooey. They ARE assault rifles and I don't hide that FACT.
Mine are heavy barreled weapons suitable for "assaulting" varmints which is what
I use them for. They are all equipped with telescopic sights and are precision
"tools". They will NEVER be used against innocent humans.
Actually I don't shoot varmints any longer but I still have the weapons
and sometimes shoot targets with them in my backyard range at my home
in the country where almost EVERYONE shoots from time to time.
Neither I nor the farmers in the area are a threat to anyone not a threat to us.
Most all my handguns are "target" type but double as defensive weapons
should the very unlikely need arise.
I wish to harm no one ever.
Pooey. They ARE assault rifles and I don't hide that FACT.
Mine are heavy barreled weapons suitable for "assaulting" varmints which is what
I use them for. They are all equipped with telescopic sights and are precision
"tools". They will NEVER be used against innocent humans.
Actually I don't shoot varmints any longer but I still have the weapons
and sometimes shoot targets with them in my backyard range at my home
in the country where almost EVERYONE shoots from time to time.
Neither I nor the farmers in the area are a threat to anyone not a threat to us.
Most all my handguns are "target" type but double as defensive weapons
should the very unlikely need arise.
I wish to harm no one ever.
No it's NOT a "huge leap of faith" to suggest 99.9 % of gun owners won't remain
respectful of ALL persons lives.
Get this:
How many guns are there in the United States? While no one knows exactly, our most reliable estimates have put the numbers of firearms in the hands of United States civilians at 300 – 310 million, but I am convinced that number is no longer anywhere close to accurate. I suspect the true numbers are a lot higher.
Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2014/11/04/gun-ownership-by-the-numbers/#ixzz4BbMHxD00
300 to 310 MILLION. What percent are used criminally?
Here. Read this and get facts straight, no not emotional opinions.
http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/337834/private-gun-sales-numbers-robert-verbruggen
No gun owner I know would hurt anyone not hurting them or other innocents.
Let's be sensible in the darkness of this HATE crime.
Where do illegal drugs come from?
The U.S. and many other nations have tried and failed to stop the illegal drug
trade.
America, It’s Time For An Intervention: Drug Overdoses Are Killing More People Than Cars, Guns
From: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/08/30/drug-overdose-deaths_n_3843690.html
Notice I source almost EVERYTHING I post. These are more than mere opinions.
I like sourcing what I post.
I don't like posting so much about vehicle "accidents". People seem to accept vehicle
accidents as those tragedies are less threatening and deliberate.
Tomorrows_Child
Active Member
I've never once heard a loud, mainstream argument claiming he represents all gun owners. What he does represent is the ease to which a criminally minded, mentally unstable individual can buy guns in the US. That's the real issue here.
I acknowledge that there are many responsible gun owners. That's why I changed my stance years ago from abolishing guns to stronger gun control.
Concerning numbers, there are statistics from many countries showing low gun violence correlating to stricter gun control.
Gun violence follows guns. It is a direct correlation to the number of guns in an area. There's just no escaping this.
As the number of guns approaches zero, so will the number of gun violence. If all we do is remove guns from the population and not add guns, then over time, gun violence will go down.
Countries especially like Australia has proven this.
But again, I'm not advocating the removal of guns but more responsibility through training and evaluation of potential owners.
I'm just saying that if one wants to bring numbers, then I can also bring forth numbers to prove the counter point.
suncowiam:
(strange screen name by the way)
"But again, I'm not advocating the removal of guns but more responsibility through training and evaluation of potential owners."
I've been a gun owner since I was old enough to shoot one.
My first gun was a 20 gauge pump shotgun given to me for my 12th b-day.
I carried a gun as a police officer for 22.5 years ( now disabled ) and NEVER shot anyone
though I could have at least 3 X and been legally "justified" but I just couldn't do it.
I have NO ISSUE AT ALL with stronger laws when purchasing a gun.
Better and deeper background checks perhaps?
Firearms safety classes first perhaps?
Guidelines for dealers to follow perhaps?
Just suggestions that would not cause me concern.
I recall a man that bought a shotgun from Sear Roebuck years ago.
A single shot 12 gauge. He went to a gun shop and asked for and bought 5 rounds of
ammo. The store keeper didn't "get it" and sold him 5 shells.
The idiot went home and shot his wife, was going to take out his 3 kids then
himself but the cheap gun broke.
I and two other officer SAW this happen.
The wife called police, we responded and tried desperately to get inside the house
but the front door was blocked my a sofa. Ran around to the back door and forced it
but too late. We saw through a window that he blasted his wife killing her.
We forced the door and beat his brains out!
The 3 kids saw the whole thing.
I carried the kids outside as they screamed "you didn't save my mommy."
I cried. A lot.
Wonder why I became alcoholic after 22.5 years of this ****?
( I'm in recovery now. Was totally disabled with 13 serious injuries.)
It's o.k. though. Was in therapy for 5 years getting my brains right again.
Don't drink any longer at all.
Perhaps a waiting period would have stopped this.
I dunno. Never will now.
(strange screen name by the way)
"But again, I'm not advocating the removal of guns but more responsibility through training and evaluation of potential owners."
I've been a gun owner since I was old enough to shoot one.
My first gun was a 20 gauge pump shotgun given to me for my 12th b-day.
I carried a gun as a police officer for 22.5 years ( now disabled ) and NEVER shot anyone
though I could have at least 3 X and been legally "justified" but I just couldn't do it.
I have NO ISSUE AT ALL with stronger laws when purchasing a gun.
Better and deeper background checks perhaps?
Firearms safety classes first perhaps?
Guidelines for dealers to follow perhaps?
Just suggestions that would not cause me concern.
I recall a man that bought a shotgun from Sear Roebuck years ago.
A single shot 12 gauge. He went to a gun shop and asked for and bought 5 rounds of
ammo. The store keeper didn't "get it" and sold him 5 shells.
The idiot went home and shot his wife, was going to take out his 3 kids then
himself but the cheap gun broke.
I and two other officer SAW this happen.
The wife called police, we responded and tried desperately to get inside the house
but the front door was blocked my a sofa. Ran around to the back door and forced it
but too late. We saw through a window that he blasted his wife killing her.
We forced the door and beat his brains out!
The 3 kids saw the whole thing.
I carried the kids outside as they screamed "you didn't save my mommy."
I cried. A lot.
Wonder why I became alcoholic after 22.5 years of this ****?
( I'm in recovery now. Was totally disabled with 13 serious injuries.)
It's o.k. though. Was in therapy for 5 years getting my brains right again.
Don't drink any longer at all.
Perhaps a waiting period would have stopped this.
I dunno. Never will now.