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If the Theory of Evolution is true what does it prove?

Vile Atheist

Loud and Obnoxious
Its the scientific theory of how different species evolved over thousands of years.

Its also about the biological mechanisms concerning diversity of species.

Natural Selection,Origins of Man, and Biology are just a few interconnected topics.

I got some information from here TalkOrigins Archive: Exploring the Creation/Evolution Controversy . . .

I'll try to be as simple as I possibly can.

Obviously, you and I are different and we're different because we have different genetics. We're still of the same species, but there are genetic differences between us that make you you and me me. Indeed, these genetic differences exist in all life (with some exceptions that will just needlessly complicate things further if I explain it at this point).

When two "parents" reproduce, they may do so imperfectly (in the case of asexual organisms, there's only one "parent", of course). What I mean by that is during reproduction, DNA needs to get copied and it's sometimes copied incorrectly. The body naturally tries to repair such genetic damage. Sometimes it is successful, sometimes it isn't. If it isn't, that leads to a mutation. Sometimes the mutations lead to a beneficial outcome, sometimes harmful, sometimes neutral.

The result is that sometimes traits develop that may be slightly more useful to an organism or sometimes it may have negative consequences. The ones affected by the negative consequences tend to die off because they either can't compete for resources or mates or evade predators or what have you. The ones that have positive mutations tend to reproduce more because they have an advantage and those genes get passed onto the next generation. This is basically natural selection.

Natural selection takes its course on a population. The members of a population with "bad" mutations die off easier and their "bad" genes don't tend to get passed on. The ones with "good" genes tend to reproduce better and their genes tend to get passed on. By "good and bad", I mean this in the context of "better suited to their environment".

Eventually, what may happen over time is that a population will get separated from another by some geographical barrier (being on an island, across a mountain range, or even just a large distance). As a result, there are different selection pressures on the two groups. Over time, with the two groups undergoing different selection pressures (nature demands different traits to be better suited to the environment), the two may become so genetically different that they can no longer breed with each other, or at least not form viable offspring. This is called allopatric speciation. There are other types of speciation too (other means by which species can form, but this is the easiest to visualize).

It's tempting to think of evolution as being geared towards evolving human-like qualities because it's obvious human-like qualities are to our advantage. But think of an antelope on an African grassland. Its existence depends on being able to evade larger predators like lions. It can do this through several ways like being able to detect lions better to give them more reaction time. This is why an antelope's eyes are further to the sides of its head. It gives it a better field of vision. It's why an antelope's ears stick up and out. It gives it better hearing. This is why antelopes have long, slender legs. It allows the antelope to run faster. It is evolutionarily advantageous for an antelope to develop consistently better eyesight, hearing, camouflage, and speed to avoid being hunted.

Meanwhile, the lion that's trying to hunt it needs better ways of catching an antelope. The selection pressures would favour lions that have sharper teeth, sharper claws, more powerful legs so it can run and jump faster, etc. The result is a sort of "arms race" between the predator and prey. The predator wants to catch its prey, so it tends to evolve traits through natural selection that favour catching the prey. The prey doesn't want to end up as lunch, so it tends to evolve traits through natural selection that favour evading the predator.

I hope that explains the basic concept to you.
 

Biblestudent_007

Active Member
I'll try to be as simple as I possibly can.

Obviously, you and I are different and we're different because we have different genetics. We're still of the same species, but there are genetic differences between us that make you you and me me. Indeed, these genetic differences exist in all life (with some exceptions that will just needlessly complicate things further if I explain it at this point).

When two "parents" reproduce, they may do so imperfectly (in the case of asexual organisms, there's only one "parent", of course). What I mean by that is during reproduction, DNA needs to get copied and it's sometimes copied incorrectly. The body naturally tries to repair such genetic damage. Sometimes it is successful, sometimes it isn't. If it isn't, that leads to a mutation. Sometimes the mutations lead to a beneficial outcome, sometimes harmful, sometimes neutral.

The result is that sometimes traits develop that may be slightly more useful to an organism or sometimes it may have negative consequences. The ones affected by the negative consequences tend to die off because they either can't compete for resources or mates or evade predators or what have you. The ones that have positive mutations tend to reproduce more because they have an advantage and those genes get passed onto the next generation. This is basically natural selection.

Natural selection takes its course on a population. The members of a population with "bad" mutations die off easier and their "bad" genes don't tend to get passed on. The ones with "good" genes tend to reproduce better and their genes tend to get passed on. By "good and bad", I mean this in the context of "better suited to their environment".

Eventually, what may happen over time is that a population will get separated from another by some geographical barrier (being on an island, across a mountain range, or even just a large distance). As a result, there are different selection pressures on the two groups. Over time, with the two groups undergoing different selection pressures (nature demands different traits to be better suited to the environment), the two may become so genetically different that they can no longer breed with each other, or at least not form viable offspring. This is called allopatric speciation. There are other types of speciation too (other means by which species can form, but this is the easiest to visualize).

It's tempting to think of evolution as being geared towards evolving human-like qualities because it's obvious human-like qualities are to our advantage. But think of an antelope on an African grassland. Its existence depends on being able to evade larger predators like lions. It can do this through several ways like being able to detect lions better to give them more reaction time. This is why an antelope's eyes are further to the sides of its head. It gives it a better field of vision. It's why an antelope's ears stick up and out. It gives it better hearing. This is why antelopes have long, slender legs. It allows the antelope to run faster. It is evolutionarily advantageous for an antelope to develop consistently better eyesight, hearing, camouflage, and speed to avoid being hunted.

Meanwhile, the lion that's trying to hunt it needs better ways of catching an antelope. The selection pressures would favour lions that have sharper teeth, sharper claws, more powerful legs so it can run and jump faster, etc. The result is a sort of "arms race" between the predator and prey. The predator wants to catch its prey, so it tends to evolve traits through natural selection that favour catching the prey. The prey doesn't want to end up as lunch, so it tends to evolve traits through natural selection that favour evading the predator.

I hope that explains the basic concept to you.

Thanks for "summarizing" ToE for me. (Yes, I did read your post)

Perhaps you can answer this . . .

Why is ToE favored and associated with the beliefs of non-religious atheist and agnostic people? . .
 
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gnostic

The Lost One
biblestudent_007 said:
Why is ToE favored and associated with the beliefs of non-religious atheist and agnostic people? . .

I know you are asking Defender of Justice this question, but I would to say the ToE favored no atheists or agnostics, because it has nothing to do with them.

Evolution is biological science; evolution is not about atheism or agnosticism.

And for your information, not all atheists or agnostics understand evolution. Many of my cousins are atheists, but they are more interested in business/marketing than in science. Because of those chosen education and career paths, they don't accept evolution. Anyone can learn evolution, just like that they can learn any other science, including theists.

And then there are number of Christian theists here in this forum, who understand and accept evolution as the best explanation about the diversity of species. These Christians also understand that the bible is a book of theology, and not of science. The bible doesn't explain biology, medicine, gravity, thermodynamics, physics, chemistry, geoscience, astronomy, etc.

The real problem is literal creationists refused to learn and understand evolution, as if it is competing their faith. Feeling threaten by evolution, they will try to distort the ToE.
 
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Vile Atheist

Loud and Obnoxious
Thanks for "summarizing" ToE for me. (Yes, I did read your post)

Perhaps you can answer this . . .

Why is ToE favored and associated with the beliefs of non-religious atheist and agnostic people? . .

No problem. I think the most important thing to note about evolution is that most changes are very, very slight and take many generations. Small simple changes get built upon constantly and improved to create larger, more complex changes. For example, a patch of light-sensitive skin very gradually turns into a shallow socket, which turns into a deep socket, which eventually, many, many, many generations later turns into an eye, each step along the way improving vision in some way. The patch of light-sensitive skin is obvious far less useful than an eye, but it's better than not being able to detect light at all.

It's also tempting to think of species as individual and concrete units, rather than a continuum of genetically different organisms, especially because the intermediates between most species were not viable and have become extinct in most cases. But there is still massive evidence for their existence.

To answer your question, as gnostic points out, atheism and agnosticism have nothing to do with the Theory of Evolution. Believing one doesn't necessarily imply that you believe the other.

If you think about it, is there such a thing as "theistic gravity" and "atheistic gravity"? Or "theistic electromagnetism" and "atheistic electromagnetism"? For some reason, the ToE garners the controversial attention it does because some Christians feel it disproves or delegitimizes their God, so it is often viewed in the light of a "theist" versus "atheist" debate, with atheists by default taking the side of the Theory of Evolution while theists take the side of God.

In fact, this is a false dichotomy because the scientific process has nothing to do with religion or atheism. It's simply a matter of "Is there enough evidence to support this theory?" and there is a mountain of it, when it comes to the ToE.

But many Christians adopt a view called 'theistic evolution' that is basically the same as the ToE, except that they say God started and guided the process along the way to develop humans who he has a special plan for.

Being atheist doesn't imply that you accept the ToE and being theist doesn't imply that you reject it. I know for a fact the Catholic Church accepts it, albeit the 'theistic' variety.
 

Valjean

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Thanks for "summarizing" ToE for me. (Yes, I did read your post)

Perhaps you can answer this . . .

Why is ToE favored and associated with the beliefs of non-religious atheist and agnostic people? . .
The non-religious generally follow the weight of the evidence. They also favor the germ theory over humoral imbalances and the heliocentrist theory over an Earth centered universe for the same reason.
 

Dirty Penguin

Master Of Ceremony
Thanks for "summarizing" ToE for me. (Yes, I did read your post)

Perhaps you can answer this . . .

Why is ToE favored and associated with the beliefs of non-religious atheist and agnostic people? . .

What fantome profane said. Additionally, there are quite a few theist scientist.
 

Biblestudent_007

Active Member
So ToE has NOTHING to do with God? . . I didn't know that. (I think its a little more complicated than that)
 
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Jose Fly

Fisker of men
Nothing at all, in the same way the germ theory of disease or the atomic theory of matter have nothing to do with gods.
 

Jose Fly

Fisker of men
If there's a mountain of evidence supporting evolution, why are there creationists? . .
If the Holocaust really happened, why are there Holocaust deniers? If we really landed on the moon, why are their moon-landing conspiracy theorists?

Heck, there are people who insist that the earth is flat, doesn't move, and is orbited by the rest of the universe! :shrug:
 

LuisDantas

Aura of atheification
Premium Member
If there's a mountain of evidence supporting evolution, why are there creationists? . .

Who knows? That said, I will venture my best guess.

The main reason is a lack of desire to question their perception of humanity as a Chosen Species with a Significant Destiny that other animals don't share.

A secondary reason is the lack of difusion of current scientific knowledge. But it would be a much lesser factor were it not for the first.
 

LuisDantas

Aura of atheification
Premium Member
So ToE has NOTHING to do with God? . . I didn't know that. (I think its a little more complicated than that)

How would that be? The ToE does indeed lack any relationship whatsoever with God, as is only natural. It is most certainly not "atheistic".
 

Dirty Penguin

Master Of Ceremony
So ToE has NOTHING to do with God? . . I didn't know that. (I think its a little more complicated than that)

I'm not sure if it's been said but the ToE is neither for nor against the concept of a god nor is it against aliens, for that matter, as the originator of life on this planet. ToE deals with how biological organisms change over time on this planet.
 
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