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If the whole world were atheist, would the world be a better place?

Laika

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
It actually fits quite well, he was, above all a nationalist and used the teachings of Christianity, Romans 13:1-2 comes to mind.

Stalin was fundamentally an ideologically motivated pragmatist, and ruthlessly so. There was always a core ideology at work as a set of goals and he worked with the means available to achieve them. He originally took power by supporting market based economic reforms, only to then dramatically shift towards forced collectivisation, state ownership and rapid industrialisation in the thirties. His belief that Nazism was a form of Capitalist Reaction did not prevent him from agreeing to the Nazi-Soviet pact and dividing up Poland to his advantage. Nor was his hostility to British and American Imperialism a reason to reject the assistance of the Western Allies in world war II.

Whilst Stalin defeated Trotsky by advancing the theory of "Socialism in one country" it was more a question of emphasis rather than of rejecting world revolution and internationalism as a whole. He was never a "nationalist" in the sense we would typically understand it because the Marxist conception of nation was based on class. He presided over a Federal Union of Republics and introduced policies similar to affirmative action to ensure "national self-determination" of various ethnic groups within the USSR, whilst also committing genocide against some groups that were considered "disloyal".

It is true that Stalin did make concessions to the Christian Churches, but these were primarily tactical considerations rather than rejecting the goal of eliminating religion as a superstition that consolidated the power of exploiting classes over the masses. These concessions were also after a decade of the most vicious and uncompromising assault on religious ideas and institutions history had then known. The Soviets persecuted all religions without qualification, including Jews, Muslims, Christians, indigenous beliefs of nomadic tribes in Siberia, etc.

Stalin is an extremely complex and controversial figure but I have no doubt about the sincerity of his convictions as a Marxist and a materialist. It is in fact difficult to comprehend how he could have even been capable of behaving in the way he did without a depth of conviction and an uncompromising commitment to those convictions that could make the deaths of millions, including some of his friends and family members, as well as risking his own life for a cause as an acceptable price to pay for achieving his goal. It is a quality that deserves respect and fear for how it shows mankind's ability to justify its worst vices in pursuing its virtues. Communism was a goal in which man had no masters and God is nothing but an enemy of the people as an obstacle to their power and freedom. I don't know the man obviously, but for him to be a Christian would seem to be a betrayal of his life's work to build a rational, scientific order in which mankind triumphs over the blind operation of natural and social forces, "God" being only one of them.
 

ChristineM

"Be strong", I whispered to my coffee.
Premium Member
Stalin was fundamentally an ideologically motivated pragmatist, and ruthlessly so. There was always a core ideology at work as a set of goals and he worked with the means available to achieve them. He originally took power by supporting market based economic reforms, only to then dramatically shift towards forced collectivisation, state ownership and rapid industrialisation in the thirties. His belief that Nazism was a form of Capitalist Reaction did not prevent him from agreeing to the Nazi-Soviet pact and dividing up Poland to his advantage. Nor was his hostility to British and American Imperialism a reason to reject the assistance of the Western Allies in world war II.

Whilst Stalin defeated Trotsky by advancing the theory of "Socialism in one country" it was more a question of emphasis rather than of rejecting world revolution and internationalism as a whole. He was never a "nationalist" in the sense we would typically understand it because the Marxist conception of nation was based on class. He presided over a Federal Union of Republics and introduced policies similar to affirmative action to ensure "national self-determination" of various ethnic groups within the USSR, whilst also committing genocide against some groups that were considered "disloyal".

It is true that Stalin did make concessions to the Christian Churches, but these were primarily tactical considerations rather than rejecting the goal of eliminating religion as a superstition that consolidated the power of exploiting classes over the masses. These concessions were also after a decade of the most vicious and uncompromising assault on religious ideas and institutions history had then known. The Soviets persecuted all religions without qualification, including Jews, Muslims, Christians, indigenous beliefs of nomadic tribes in Siberia, etc.

Stalin is an extremely complex and controversial figure but I have no doubt about the sincerity of his convictions as a Marxist and a materialist. It is in fact difficult to comprehend how he could have even been capable of behaving in the way he did without a depth of conviction and an uncompromising commitment to those convictions that could make the deaths of millions, including some of his friends and family members, as well as risking his own life for a cause as an acceptable price to pay for achieving his goal. It is a quality that deserves respect and fear for how it shows mankind's ability to justify its worst vices in pursuing its virtues. Communism was a goal in which man had no masters and God is nothing but an enemy of the people as an obstacle to their power and freedom. I don't know the man obviously, but for him to be a Christian would seem to be a betrayal of his life's work to build a rational, scientific order in which mankind triumphs over the blind operation of natural and social forces, "God" being only one of them.

Mostly very good but I don't believe so, Stalin was a very complex person and would use whatever means he could to achieve his goal. Given reports of his family life, Christianity played a great part.
 

The Kilted Heathen

Crow FreyjasmaðR
Yes well, of you have to resort to sarcasm to justify the horrors of McCarthy that's you problem
Of course I'm going to employ sarcasm at this point. Because despite my point and argument being very clearly worded, you persist to make it some bull-[REDACTED] that it's not, and argue against that. I'm not going to take blatant fallacy seriously.
 

ChristineM

"Be strong", I whispered to my coffee.
Premium Member
Of course I'm going to employ sarcasm at this point. Because despite my point and argument being very clearly worded, you persist to make it some bull-[REDACTED] that it's not, and argue against that. I'm not going to take blatant fallacy seriously.

Fallacy? Ok you learn from American revisionist history, your prerogative
 

Silverscale derg

Active Member
As much as I am disgusted with so much of what I see in abrahamic monotheism, I don't think the world would be better off without it.

A lot of people are kind and honest because they fear God. A lot of people are charitable and honest because they love God.

I know that there are many times I was honest and charitable because I believed that those actions were pleasing to Mother Mary, Denise Naslund, and God.

Furthermore, there is something transforming about prayer. I used to be a sociopath, now I greatly love people, am deeply compassionate, hate to see suffering, and haven't needed to be physically restrained in years. I give all the credit to a power greater than myself and the transformation received through prayer and meditation.

Would I be a worse person as an atheist? Absolutely! Been there, done that, it was a total **** show!

My question is for atheists. If the whole world was atheist, do you think the world would be a better place?
I feel that being spiritual is still needed, maybe not atheist but pagan if they could, worshipers of the earth, of the main four elements that made the world, where witchcraft is not seen as evil. They aren't bound by a book telling them what's "right" to do yet the god of the bible breaks the no killing rule anyways. Unlike atheist I feel that ones who are open to the worship of earth instead of to a cocky god would be better, no more killing animals needlessly would be nice. Sure they have way more gods but none of them say to worship only them for they're to be called on for what they do, They each have different jobs
 
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