If the world is predominantly religious, why is it such a mess?

[Deidre]

For a world that is so religion-saturated (Abrahamic faith-based to be specific) ...why is there so much poverty, hatred, violence, bigotry, chaos, war, immorality, oppression, and greed?

Just my random question for the day.

 

[The Hammer]

For a world that is so religion-saturated (Abrahamic faith-based to be specific) ...why is there so much poverty, hatred, violence, bigotry, chaos, war, immorality, oppression, and greed?

Just my random question for the day.

Because there are several million religions throughout the world, and none of them actually agree on anything. Within Christianity itself there are 30,000 denominations alone.

Instead of taking time out of their day to help others, most people are too busy fighting amongst themselves.

Also, the negative things that you mention, are not something that will ever be eradicated, even if there was only one singular religion on the planet. This is because they are the exasperated versions of natural human qualities. The more people we have, the bigger these problems will seem, because the more that will succumb to them.

 

[Riverwolf]

Well, not the entire world is Abramaic-centered. East Asia is more Buddhist-centered, and not really much better for that.

Thing is, for all the problems of the world, there are as many wonders.

 

[Laika]

Religion implies that man is not in control of his surroundings and is subservient to them as a supernatural force or "god". We seek the illusion of control by submitting to such a higher power, only of course to feel that we are being controlled and are the victims of such a power and "the problem of evil". We blame god for evil in the world, but really we're the ones who are making it that way. Yet we struggle to recognize it because doing so would mean admitting we do not have the understanding of our own nature to know what is good either. So we tell ourselves we are sinners to save us from the burden of growth and knowledge. At this stage we do not have the knowledge to know what is good, nor the power or freedom to make the world better. But we'll get there. eventually.

 

[Riverwolf]

Religion implies that man is not in control of his surroundings and is subservient to them as a supernatural force or "god". We seek the illusion of control by submitting to such a higher power, only of course to feel that we are being controlled and are the victims of such a power and "the problem of evil". We blame god for evil in the world, but really we're the ones who are making it that way. Yet we struggle to recognize it because doing so would mean admitting we do not have the understanding of our own nature to know what is good either. So we tell ourselves we are sinners to save us from the burden of growth and knowledge. At this stage we do not have the knowledge to know what is good, nor the power or freedom to make the world better. But we'll get there. eventually.

Religion as a whole doesn't imply anything like that. Certainly the religion I follow doesn't. Personal and collective responsibility is a pretty big trait.

 

[Skwim]

Why would you think that just because the world is so religion-saturated (Abrahamic faith-based to be specific) there wouldn't be so much poverty, hatred, violence, bigotry, chaos, war, immorality, oppression, and greed? Religion has seldom shown itself to be a remedy of these flawed aspects of life in smaller settings, and, in fact, has sometimes even fomented them. A lot of lip service is paid to religion, much more than the actual implementation of its ideals.

 

[Laika]

Religion as a whole doesn't imply anything like that. Certainly the religion I follow doesn't. Personal and collective responsibility is a pretty big trait.

If [edit: we say that] god or the supernatural exist, it implies that there is a world "beyond" this one which we do not have control over. Does not religion in some sense mean surrender to the mysterious and unknown?

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

For a world that is so religion-saturated (Abrahamic faith-based to be specific) ...why is there so much poverty, hatred, violence, bigotry, chaos, war, immorality, oppression, and greed?

Just my random question for the day.

Frankly, with so many people believing that an invisible god can fix our problems and that this world is only a temporary "transition area" before the real thing in Heaven, I'm surprised the world is in as good shape as it is.

Edit: out of curiosity, why would you expect more religious people to result in less poverty, hatred, violence, etc.?

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Because it is people who are religious, and people who are capable of all sorts of wonderful and deplorable acts.

 

[Riverwolf]

If [edit: we say that] god or the supernatural exist, it implies that there is a world "beyond" this one which we do not have control over. Does not religion in some sense mean surrender to the mysterious and unknown?

Not in every instance, even if only because not all religions are theistic, anyway.

Even without Gods, there are natural forces that are beyond our control, whether only temporary due to current technological limitations, or for all intents and purposes, permanently. (I don't think it'll ever be in our control to stop Sun from expanding and engulfing Earth ~5 billion years from now, even if only because by then we'll probably be extinct, anyway.)

There's a difference between "surrender" and "accept".

Let me illustrate with an example of similar concepts from two different religions that you may not be aware of.

In Hellenismos, there are Moirai, called Fates in Modern English, who ordain everything there is to be. Fate, which they have ordained, cannot be altered; even Zeus and all the Gods must bow to them.

In Asatru, there is Wyrd (Urðr in Old Norse), who is one of the Norns, and is is Destiny. Wyrd determines what is to be, just as the Moirai do.

But there is a difference. Fate is unchangeable, even by the Theoi. But it was said that through the practice of Seiðr, Wyrd can be redirected even by humans. And it's Asatru that I follow. I am in charge of my own Wyrd, even if certain aspects are beyond my control.

IOW, I don't surrender to a preordained fate. I accept that I can't control certain things, but can still have agency of my own.

 

[Nietzsche]

For a world that is so religion-saturated (Abrahamic faith-based to be specific) ...why is there so much poverty, hatred, violence, bigotry, chaos, war, immorality, oppression, and greed?

Just my random question for the day.

These are human problems. Religion can exacerbate or remedy some of them, but at the core these are faults in what we are.

 

[Sha'irullah]

Religions like to offer humility and understanding of the world but like all ideologies and worldviews they are put to the test and all of them have failed. They are obvious untruths and failed systems with the more recent being the better yet seemingly all the more failed. The most superstitious religions like Christianity and Islam create the most death. While the more modern and less superstitious ones like Sikhism and Neo-paganism have the most peace.
Religions are just cultural remnants that tried creating objective world views of life and even the possible life after life itself. They were created in ignorance and are best left to the ignorant. This is the nature of religions

 

[Kolibri]

For a world that is so religion-saturated (Abrahamic faith-based to be specific) ...why is there so much poverty, hatred, violence, bigotry, chaos, war, immorality, oppression, and greed?

Just my random question for the day.

"Woe for the earth and for the sea, because the Devil has come down to you, having great anger, knowing that he has a short period of time." - Re 12:12
"earth" being the stable parts of society; (Ps 96:1) "sea" being the unstable parts (Isa 57:20)

"But know this, that in the last days critical times hard to deal with will be here. For men will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boastful, haughty, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, disloyal, having no natural affection, not open to any agreement, slanderers, without self-control, fierce, without love of goodness, betrayers, headstrong, puffed up with pride, lovers of pleasures rather than lovers of God, having an appearance of godliness but proving false to its power; and from these turn away." - 2 Timothy 3:1-5 (see also Mt 7:22,23)

 

[Laika]

Not in every instance, even if only because not all religions are theistic, anyway.

Even without Gods, there are natural forces that are beyond our control, whether only temporary due to current technological limitations, or for all intents and purposes, permanently. (I don't think it'll ever be in our control to stop Sun from expanding and engulfing Earth ~5 billion years from now, even if only because by then we'll probably be extinct, anyway.)

There's a difference between "surrender" and "accept".

Let me illustrate with an example of similar concepts from two different religions that you may not be aware of.

In Hellenismos, there are Moirai, called Fates in Modern English, who ordain everything there is to be. Fate, which they have ordained, cannot be altered; even Zeus and all the Gods must bow to them.

In Asatru, there is Wyrd (Urðr in Old Norse), who is one of the Norns, and is is Destiny. Wyrd determines what is to be, just as the Moirai do.

But there is a difference. Fate is unchangeable, even by the Theoi. But it was said that through the practice of Seiðr, Wyrd can be redirected even by humans. And it's Asatru that I follow. I am in charge of my own Wyrd, even if certain aspects are beyond my control.

IOW, I don't surrender to a preordained fate. I accept that I can't control certain things, but can still have agency of my own.

it is about the difference between being beyond our control and beyond our understanding. By asserting that there is a supernatural realm which is beyond our comprehension we are condemned to suffer the consequences for our ignorance.

The concept of fate in the examples you've given- and possibly in general- is the belief that a supernatural force or higher power has made something inevitable and that our freedom or agency is denied. Again, that implies submission to a power beyond our control and understanding. Admittedly, I'm a fairly hard determinist (as I don't believe in free will), so I can veer to the fatalistic sometimes.
I would argue that things all things are determined even if they are not understood; The realization of necessity (in society at least) requires human action and we can only accelerate or slow down the changes that are happening. I'm not sure how similar that is to the conception of Wyrd that you are describing.

 

[mainliner]

For a world that is so religion-saturated (Abrahamic faith-based to be specific) ...why is there so much poverty, hatred, violence, bigotry, chaos, war, immorality, oppression, and greed?

Just my random question for the day.

maybe an atheist would do a better job

 

[mainliner]

Money, love and religion is the problem.

confusion, idiocity and immaturity .

young , dumb and looking for love is humans problem ............. heaven will correct these young human thoughts INSTANTLY

big school awaits ....... Nursery has run its cause

 

[Deidre]

I see many of your points, thank you for your candor!

So, why is religion necessary if it's not really driving the world to become a better place?

Part of my point is that atheists often get a bad rap by many religious sectors and it's funny to me considering the state of the world and the fact that atheists are well in the minority.

 

[Riverwolf]

it is about the difference between being beyond our control and beyond our understanding. By asserting that there is a supernatural realm which is beyond our comprehension we are condemned to suffer the consequences for our ignorance.

I don't "assert" things, even if I believe them. I'm an agnostic theist. In any case, I don't believe a "supernatural realm beyond our comprehension" is necessary for Gods; they can be very, very immanent. For the record, I do believe in an intangible realm, but not that it's inherently "beyond our comprehension".

The concept of fate in the examples you've given- and possibly in general- is the belief that a supernatural force or higher power has made something inevitable and that our freedom or agency is denied. Again, that implies submission to a power beyond our control and understanding. Admittedly, I'm a fairly hard determinist (as I don't believe in free will), so I can veer to the fatalistic sometimes.
I would argue that things all things are determined even if they are not understood; The realization of necessity (in society at least) requires human action and we can only accelerate or slow down the changes that are happening. I'm not sure how similar that is to the conception of Wyrd that you are describing.

It's... similar, though perhaps more fatalistic. Wyrd is not so much "fate" as it is "destiny".

And in pre-Christian European conceptions, nothing "made" it. It just... is. The story given in Edda Lore is that there was just a Yawning Gap, and then Fire-Land and Ice-Land (not the country) just... appeared. Then they just crept closer to each other, and as their inter-influence increased, Ymir was just born. Then a cow named Audhumbla was born from the same process, and she licked the ice and uncovered Buri, father or Bor, father of Odin, Vili, and Ve. No "Creator" did this; it just happened.

In my personal conception, the Sole Eternal Being is Death, who is the Mother of Life. The Firstborn of Death is the Weaver, whom I conceive of as a spider, and Her Web, ever being spun, is basically Wyrd. But a spider is significantly smaller than Her web, and the threads can be altered by a delicate external force whether She wills it or no. (...hey, I could use that to tell a Promethean story).

Here's a practical example. It is the Wyrd of humanity that we cannot fly. It wasn't through Seiðr, but that thread was ultimately altered; such that our bodies still cannot fly, but we have built tools that enable us to do so.

 

[Riverwolf]

So, why is religion necessary if it's not really driving the world to become a better place?

Why is art necessary? Stories? Movies? Plays? Books? Games? Music?

 

[Skwim]

I see many of your points, thank you for your candor!

So, why is religion necessary if it's not really driving the world to become a better place?

It's a necessary coping tool.

Part of my point is that atheists often get a bad rap by many religious sectors and it's funny to me considering the state of the world and the fact that atheists are well in the minority.

I believe that the bad rap atheists receive is in response to the fears of the believer: That the rejection of one of the primary sources of comfort as baseless may actually be true. They need the reassurance of a collective agreement--no disagreement allowed.