If the world is predominantly religious, why is it such a mess?

[Deidre]

Frankly, with so many people believing that an invisible god can fix our problems and that this world is only a temporary "transition area" before the real thing in Heaven, I'm surprised the world is in as good shape as it is.

Edit: out of curiosity, why would you expect more religious people to result in less poverty, hatred, violence, etc.?

Because many religions preach that its members should wish to solve these problems of society...together. If religion doesn't help the world, is it really just a life preserver people cling to in order to cope with reality? Is it really just something to make a person feel good, with no real meaning behind it?

Religion in some cases, is a big business too. (Catholic Church, Protestant mega-churches, etc) It stands to reason that people take it seriously if they're donating to these groups.

I'm going to quote a priest who I really adored when I was following Catholicism...Father Corapi from EWTN used to often say...'if you are like everyone else, if you don't live your life differently, how will anyone know you are Catholic?'

I'm paraphrasing, but that hit home for me back then.

I'll always think Father Corapi's cool. ^_^

 

[The Hammer]

Reminds me of when my cats chase their tails. ^_^

LMAO, that's great. My cat does this frequently enough... Ahem.... I am off topic.

 

[Revoltingest]

Precisely. Religion doesn't make people behave better, in fact...it gives an illusion of goodness, often times.

An interesting study was done (but as studies go, it can always be open to interpretation) that stated the reasons why atheists give to charities, and why religious people do. Atheists give to charities mainly because they are moved by compassion for humanity, whereas the religious people were more moved to give to charities out of a duty to follow their religion, which dictates to be giving to those in need. And atheists ''out give'' on average to charities, than Christians. The sad part of that is atheists are the minority.

Now let me say...I'm not trying to imply that atheists are better than religious people...truly, I'm not. What I'm driving at is ...compassion doesn't come from religion, neither does morality. If it did...the world would be in a lot better shape. If your religion doesn't make you a better person, why follow it?

I forgot to add that he said believers continue to sin because of their sinful nature.

 

[Quintessence]

Okay, that's fair...let me reword.
The world doesn't need religion. If on any given day, the sum total of a person's life is based on their good or bad choices (and I believe that to be true)...then, religion is honestly an irrelevant concept.

The world doesn't need humans either. Therefore, humans are an irrelevant species.

 

[Deidre]

The world doesn't need humans either. Therefore, humans are an irrelevant species.

Blame evolution.

 

[Straw Dog]

Humans may be irrelevant in the grand scheme of things, but we definitely have an effect here-now. So how conscious can our actions become towards that greater effect?

 

[Quintessence]

I'd prefer instead to see the value in all things rather than dismiss them as irrelevant.

Whether or not humans "need" religion is not a useful question to me. It is like asking of a tree "needs" bark. The tree cannot help having bark; it is part of its nature. A sentient species like humans is always going to be asking existential questions. Addressing those is a primary function - if not the primary function - of religion. It's about seeking, finding, and creating meaningfulness to our existences. Whether or not you want to slap the word "religion" on the creation of sacred stories, various ideas, and practices that go about achieving this is really not that important. The bark will be on the tree regardless of what it is called.

 

[Straw Dog]

I'd prefer instead to see the value in all things rather than dismiss them as irrelevant.

Yes, everything has value if we know what to look for.

Whether or not humans "need" religion is not a useful question to me. It is like asking of a tree "needs" bark. The tree cannot help having bark; it is part of its nature. A sentient species like humans is always going to be asking existential questions. Addressing those is a primary function - if not the primary function - of religion. It's about seeking, finding, and creating meaningfulness to our existences. Whether or not you want to slap the word "religion" on the creation of sacred stories, various ideas, and practices that go about achieving this is really not that important. The bark will be on the tree regardless of what it is called.

As long as it is bark or brick and not straw or sticks, which will be blown down eventually.

 

[Deidre]

I'd prefer instead to see the value in all things rather than dismiss them as irrelevant.

Whether or not humans "need" religion is not a useful question to me. It is like asking of a tree "needs" bark. The tree cannot help having bark; it is part of its nature. A sentient species like humans is always going to be asking existential questions. Addressing those is a primary function - if not the primary function - of religion. It's about seeking, finding, and creating meaningfulness to our existences. Whether or not you want to slap the word "religion" on the creation of sacred stories, various ideas, and practices that go about achieving this is really not that important. The bark will be on the tree regardless of what it is called.

I like this, with the caveat (for me) that spirituality to a human being, isn't like bark on a tree. I'm born with skin, I don't believe it to be so...I'm actually born with skin. A brain. A heart. And so on. Bark is a material property of trees. The tree can't will it away, anymore than I can will away my organs.

I have the choice to accept or reject the idea of a supernatural realm, which doesn't add to or subtract from the fact that I'm fully human.

 

[McBell]

For a world that is so religion-saturated (Abrahamic faith-based to be specific) ...why is there so much poverty, hatred, violence, bigotry, chaos, war, immorality, oppression, and greed?

Just my random question for the day.

you ever tried herding cats?

 

[Quintessence]

As long as it is bark or brick and not straw or sticks, which will be blown down eventually.

Ah, but is change and the ability to do so such a bad thing? IMHO, the best religions are those that can change with you, not those that are so rigid that they cannot adapt as you grow.

I like this, with the caveat (for me) that spirituality to a human being, isn't like bark on a tree. I'm born with skin, I don't believe it to be so...I'm actually born with skin. A brain. A heart. And so on. Bark is a material property of trees. The tree can't will it away, anymore than I can will away my organs.

I have the choice to accept or reject the idea of a supernatural realm, which doesn't add to or subtract from the fact that I'm fully human.

Presuming one believes in the idea of free will, indeed you do. It's a good thing that there are plenty of religions that don't rest upon supernaturalism, too!

 

[Deidre]

Presuming one believes in the idea of free will, indeed you do. It's a good thing that there are plenty of religions that don't rest upon supernaturalism, too!

'tis true

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Because many religions preach that its members should wish to solve these problems of society...together.

They do? Which ones?

I'm not being facetious; I really can't think of any religion I've ever heard preach this.

If religion doesn't help the world, is it really just a life preserver people cling to in order to cope with reality? Is it really just something to make a person feel good, with no real meaning behind it?

It's not JUST a life preserver; it's lots of other things. It's a form of community and an expression of culture, for instance.

Religion in some cases, is a big business too. (Catholic Church, Protestant mega-churches, etc) It stands to reason that people take it seriously if they're donating to these groups.

I suppose, but I don't know why that would necessarily mean that they're using religion in general to make the world a better place. Some people probably think that religion is good and worth supporting in its own right; IMO, this is why you can find examples all over the world of poor communities with ornate churches: the parishioners weren't thinking "I'll tithe to help the hungry"; they were thinking "I'll tithe *instead of* helping the hungry."

I'm going to quote a priest who I really adored when I was following Catholicism...Father Corapi from EWTN used to often say...'if you are like everyone else, if you don't live your life differently, how will anyone know you are Catholic?'

I'm paraphrasing, but that hit home for me back then.

I'll always think Father Corapi's cool. ^_^

Right: religion can be a cultural or tribal marker. When one Catholic sees another Catholic (or a Jew sees a Jew, or a Muslim sees a Muslim) and recognizes them as a member of the same religion, this can reassure them that this individual is part of the "in group" that the person trusts.

 

[Straw Dog]

Ah, but is change and the ability to do so such a bad thing? IMHO, the best religions are those that can change with you, not those that are so rigid that they cannot adapt as you grow.

Good point. I change my opinion.

 

[Robert.Evans]

For a world that is so religion-saturated (Abrahamic faith-based to be specific) ...why is there so much poverty, hatred, violence, bigotry, chaos, war, immorality, oppression, and greed?

Just my random question for the day.

I am replying because the title made me laugh...

We answer here for our sins. Even those who believe and are classed as family answer for their sins. None of us our perfect. So it is not, as you might think, going to be perfect with, or come to that, without religion.

Most of the wars and poverty you see have more to do with power and wealth struggles that anyone disagreeing with a verse in the Bible.. haha

 

[Deidre]

I am replying because the title made me laugh...

We answer here for our sins. Even those who believe and are classed as family answer for their sins. None of us our perfect. So it is not, as you might think, going to be perfect with, or come to that, without religion.

Most of the wars and poverty you see have more to do with power and wealth struggles that anyone disagreeing with a verse in the Bible.. haha

But the majority of people in the world are ''Christian.'' It's the dominant faith worldwide. So how does one reconcile what you are saying with that stat?

 

[Robert.Evans]

But the majority of people in the world are ''Christian.'' It's the dominant faith worldwide. So how does one reconcile what you are saying with that stat?

I don't think it's that much bigger than Islam actually. Either way, I kinda have to repeat what I just said. There is none of us truly innocent, not whilst in the flesh, the body. So we will still answer for things we do wrong. And the Consciousness that makes up the reality of the Self, which entails all life form on this planet answers for what it already is, something that has already happened within higher-consciousness. (boring eh?)
Okay, we are not perfect, that is it. We might be complete (perfect) within, but not without (the body) so we still answer. And God is not a simple entity of one-thought, but of many-thoughts. These many thoughts, in simple language, could be seen as many Gods (even though there isn't really), so each one within its own reality is struggling for power, just as we do as humans. We see this play and interplay through life, animal life, human life. We are a physical expression of the divine. It is shaping its own Self, which we think is us, or the ''I'' of each one of us.

Okay, now that makes it worse, right?

 

[Deidre]

I don't think it's that much bigger than Islam actually. Either way, I kinda have to repeat what I just said. There is none of us truly innocent, not whilst in the flesh, the body. So we will still answer for things we do wrong. And the Consciousness that makes up the reality of the Self, which entails all life form on this planet answers for what it already is, something that has already happened within higher-consciousness. (boring eh?)
Okay, we are not perfect, that is it. We might be complete (perfect) within, but not without (the body) so we still answer. And God is not a simple entity of one-thought, but of many-thoughts. These many thoughts, in simple language, could be seen as many Gods (even though there isn't really), so each one within its own reality is struggling for power, just as we do as humans. We see this play and interplay through life, animal life, human life. We are a physical expression of the divine. It is shaping its own Self, which we think is us, or the ''I'' of each one of us.

Okay, now that makes it worse, right?

Are these excuses for why religion hasn't done a better job of making the world a better, more peaceful, place?

I'm reminded of what Paul and James said...'faith without works is dead.'

 

[Robert.Evans]

Are these excuses for why religion hasn't done a better job of making the world a better, more peaceful, place?

I'm reminded of what Paul said...'faith without works is dead.'

Might have been the only thing that dude said that I agree with. lol

We are the base level of Self. It is not surprising that we are here and do these things. It is a long story. I don't want my answer to be an excuse, rather a reason.
What is evolving is the Consciousness of universe, the reflection of the Divine. It is a long hard process.

 

[arthra]

I think the world is in transition .. that is, the world is moving to a new plateau..humanity is in the birth throws of a new age... moving toward a world that is far more united in its thoughts and feelings through things like the internet and global economics. We are far more together as a planet than we were say in the forties...when there was a world wide war