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"If there is a hell, there can be no heaven"
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Katzpur
Not your average Mormon
It sounds like you've got your bases covered, Sonic.
The Bible also says, "He that endureth to the end shall be saved."
"Shall be," not "is."
Katzpur
Not your average Mormon
I think we can all pretty much go along with that.
Sonic247
Well-Known Member
It sounds like you've got your bases covered, Sonic.
The Bible also says, "He that endureth to the end shall be saved."
"Shall be," not "is."
That's during the tribulation, I still can't override the other verse, it's all about faith though, they will believe in Jesus and die because of it. Kind of like how Abraham showed his faith by his actions, but the Church will already be raptured.
Katzpur
Not your average Mormon
Sorry, you lost me, but I have a hunch we're going to disagree on this, since I don't believe in the rapture.
Ãanisty
Well-Known Member
Lol...I was just a tad upset that Satan was lumped in with lawyers and rapists.
Interesting. I'd like to hear people's opinions on this. I think I'm gonna start a thread.
Isn't it possible though that somebody could be close to God without realizing it?
doppelganger
Through the Looking Glass
There's some excellent prose about this quandary in Dostoevsky's The Brothers Karamazov. I quoted it here.
Sonic247
Well-Known Member
Well I do believe in the rapture but it's not worth arguing about, I was just wanted to point out that justification has already taken place. (Not because of our righteous lives but because of the blood of Jesus.)
JayHawes
Active Member
Many people just cannot wrap their mind around the concept that good words do not get you to heaven. It shocks people becuase most think that they are good people. And therefore if they live a good life can enter heaven.
But what they dont understand is that if they have ever cursed once, or stolen, or lied or done anything wrong, which we all do, we are not fit for heaven because we are sinners. If we accept Jesus into our lives and beleive that he is the son of God and that he died and rose from the grave, God will forgive us of all sins. If you are to omit Jesus, you will be left a sinner.
Ga 5:19Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness,
Ga 5:20idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies,
Ga 5:21envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.
Re 21:8But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
1jo 1:5This is the message which we have heard from Him and declare to you, that God is light and in Him is no darkness at all.
1jo 1:6If we say that we have fellowship with Him, and walk in darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth.
1jo 1:7But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin.
1jo 1:8If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
1jo 1:9If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
1jo 1:10If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us.
But what they dont understand is that if they have ever cursed once, or stolen, or lied or done anything wrong, which we all do, we are not fit for heaven because we are sinners. If we accept Jesus into our lives and beleive that he is the son of God and that he died and rose from the grave, God will forgive us of all sins. If you are to omit Jesus, you will be left a sinner.
Ga 5:19Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness,
Ga 5:20idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies,
Ga 5:21envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.
Re 21:8But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
1jo 1:5This is the message which we have heard from Him and declare to you, that God is light and in Him is no darkness at all.
1jo 1:6If we say that we have fellowship with Him, and walk in darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth.
1jo 1:7But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin.
1jo 1:8If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
1jo 1:9If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
1jo 1:10If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us.
JayHawes
Active Member
No, Jesus will not condemn you to hell for not having heard the Gospel of Christ. Everyone will have their chance, just as when Jesus died. He went to hell and preached to those who never got a chance, and some were saved, even so again, those who never heard about Jesus on earth will get a chance. (Ephesians 4:8-10,1 Peter 3:19).
mr.guy
crapsack
What about the ones that say they're just good detours?
JayHawes
Active Member
Christianity having 2 billion adherents ... claims to be the one true way
Islam claiming to be the one true way, has 1 billion adherents
........There are more than 3 billion left claiming another way......somewhere somebody is lying, and they are good at it....(its probably Satan - John 8:44)
Mt 24:5For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.
Christ means Messiah, or the one who will save mankind. They shall come decieveing saying they are the way to God---1pe 5:8 "... your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour"
JayHawes
Active Member
Those who dont beleive in God dont even even agree. Some people are Agnostic, some claim to be atheist, but yet whorip material things. Others really dont know they're just mad at God so they become atheist ( which is backwards, being mad at God doesn't mean he doesn't exist). Whatever the motive...the overall picture is probably the same. For Atheist/ Agnostics- God seems to be far away/ non-existant. For Christians- God is in us, and Jesus is our Lord and Savior. For Muslims- Muhamad is God's Prophet, live to please Allah. For Jews- God's Chosen people, please God by keeping the MOsaic law. And so on. Although we all disagree, most of us all agree on the overall picture. For me I hope God blesses everybody, even if they hate his guts.
joeboonda
Well-Known Member
God is indeed benevolent and merciful, but He is also Holy. It is a Spiritual Law that the penalty/wages/results of sin is death. The day Adam sinned he died spiritually toward God and began to die physicaly. Adam passed his sin-nature and spiritual deadness toward God to all mankind. We have all sinned and fall short of the glory of God who is perfectly holy and is a consuming fire, noone sinful is able to live in Heaven, they would be consumed. We are all in the same boat, we all have sinned and the wages of sin is death. But God in His great love for us paid the wages of sin for us so we don't have to, He died for us. If we trust Him He grants us the free gift of eternal life, all our sins are paid for, and He gives us His righteousness in place of our own which is as filthy rags to a Holy God. He did everything He could to keep us from Hell, He is not wiilling that any should perish but that all would come to repentance. Repentance is changing one's mind about things, realizing there is a God, they are a sinner bound for Hell in need of a Saviour. By turning from our ways and accepting God's free gift of salvation by believing, trusting, in Him and His completed work on the cross for us, one is saved. God has done all He can do to keep us from Hell, if we do not accept His provision, we send ourselves to Hell. The hour is late, death comes suddenly to all men, now is the day of salvation, to delay is utmost foolishness and needless danger.