If There is Only One God, Then How Do We Know There is Only One God?

[Unveiled Artist]

You are pointing out the differences in creed
What about the common beliefs between them:-
1. Almighty God is the creator and maintainer of the universe
2.He has chosen prophets from mankind to guide us
3. The Biblical stories
4. The existence of Angels
etc.

Clearly, creeds can't be correct on all of their beliefs. That doesn't mean that there exists 'many gods', it simply means that people misbelieve

Christians believe god is an actual person. I am assuming Jews and Muslims do not see god as any physical manifestation of anything.

The nature of the gods of the three religions are different. They have different teachings and you can see it strictly during Jewish worship, Catholicism, and Muslim prayers. They have different text. One Jew here told me why would they have the Christian version of the Old Testament when they obviously do not believe in Jesus and teachings pass the fifth book of the Bible. Then, from the little I read so far of the Quran, Muhammad didn't have a good in counter with Christianity. His views, I would assume from the Quran and Hadaith would be terrible different in regards to what to practice and how to approach god than many Christians and Jews do.

If there was only one god of these three faiths, why would god be human to one creed, undefined by another, and an defined entity/spirit to another.

If there was only one god, why would one god tell us that the only way to god is through the father sorry, son, another faith says there is no intermediary, and the other says that obedience such as specific prayers are necessary to please god.

There is a contradiction in his nature and commandments. That doesn't mean there is more than one creator. It's just you guys don't agree on the nature of the creator and from an outsider, that's splitting one creator into three.

Which is right?

 

[Sonofason]

You are pointing out the differences in creed
What about the common beliefs between them:-
1. Almighty God is the creator and maintainer of the universe
2.He has chosen prophets from mankind to guide us
3. The Biblical stories
4. The existence of Angels
etc.

Clearly, creeds can't be correct on all of their beliefs. That doesn't mean that there exists 'many gods', it simply means that people misbelieve

Yes, and we perceive things differently, and then we are taught misperceptions by others, including religious leaders, and even prophets. We're only human...and we all make mistakes...mistakes in perception, and mistakes in actions, thoughts, etc.

 

[Sonofason]

That make sense. I'm asking more, if Christians believe Jesus is god, Jews do not define god, and Muslims define god but not as a manifestation of any sort, how can these three natures be of the same god?

To those who do not believe Jesus is god, then the mirror of their view of god and Muslim seem to correlate. However, since Jews do not wish to discuss the nature of their god, it is hard to assume how they see him to compare if their god is the same as Muslim and even more so Christian.

Some Jews do believe that Jesus is God...We call them Messianic Jews. Some Jews come to realize that Jesus is indeed God. Others don't make the connection. Muslims were taught, perhaps incorrectly that Jesus is not God. Now a Muslim cannot be a "good and faithful" Muslim unless he denounces the deity of Christ. So if a Muslim determines that he actually does believe that Jesus is God and the Messiah, they must convert to Christianity...and many do.

Edit: These are not problems with God's nature...they are problems with mankind's understanding, and perception of God's nature.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Now a Muslim cannot be a "good and faithful" Muslim unless he denounces the deity of Christ.

You're talking through a Christian lens. If I did the same of my faith, I'd say that all three religions are wrong because everything is seen through ones ancestors. If you are looking at anything outside of them and without them being the priority, you are misguided.

However.

I don't do that out loud. It seems more of a God-of-Abraham-Religion thing to do. Very political.

That aside, we will say Jews that do not believe Jesus is god and Muslims who are not misguided in their own faith.

In Judaism: they do not define god (hence, we don't know his nature)

Muslim: (We know his nature and also know it's not a physical manifestation of any sort. It's an insult to the creator)

Christianity (Mainstream): Jesus (body and flesh) is god/creator the father. To others Jesus is god/divine the same as his father.

These three natures of the Creator cannot be the same creator. Jews would never say that god is a person nor would Muslims. I'd highly assume Muslims wouldn't not talk about god's nature because his nature is shared in the Quran and the practices in the Quran and Hadith.

These three are separate nature of god. How can they be of one Creator.

I know you believe your creator is the correct one. If you were an outsider, how would you approach the issue?

 

[Sonofason]

You're talking through a Christian lens. If I did the same of my faith, I'd say that all three religions are wrong because everything is seen through ones ancestors. If you are looking at anything outside of them and without them being the priority, you are misguided.

However.

I don't do that out loud. It seems more of a God-of-Abraham-Religion thing to do. Very political.

That aside, we will say Jews that do not believe Jesus is god and Muslims who are not misguided in their own faith.

In Judaism: they do not define god (hence, we don't know his nature)

Muslim: (We know his nature and also know it's not a physical manifestation of any sort. It's an insult to the creator)

Christianity (Mainstream): Jesus (body and flesh) is god/creator the father. To others Jesus is god/divine the same as his father. Or maybe you are right.

These three natures of the Creator cannot be the same creator. Jews would never say that god is a person nor would Muslims. I'd highly assume Muslims wouldn't not talk about god's nature because his nature is shared in the Quran and the practices in the Quran and Hadith.

These three are separate nature of god. How can they be of one Creator.

I know you believe your creator is the correct one. If you were an outsider, how would you approach the issue?

I did not suggest that Muslims are wrong. I said you cannot be a good Muslim and believe that Jesus is God. Ask any "good" Muslim, and he will tell you that straight up. They may be right, in which case, I'd be wrong for viewing Jesus as the physical manifestation of God. They may on the other hand be completely wrong, in which case I might be right.

 

[Sonofason]

You're talking through a Christian lens. If I did the same of my faith, I'd say that all three religions are wrong because everything is seen through ones ancestors. If you are looking at anything outside of them and without them being the priority, you are misguided.

However.

I don't do that out loud. It seems more of a God-of-Abraham-Religion thing to do. Very political.

That aside, we will say Jews that do not believe Jesus is god and Muslims who are not misguided in their own faith.

In Judaism: they do not define god (hence, we don't know his nature)

Muslim: (We know his nature and also know it's not a physical manifestation of any sort. It's an insult to the creator)

Christianity (Mainstream): Jesus (body and flesh) is god/creator the father. To others Jesus is god/divine the same as his father.

These three natures of the Creator cannot be the same creator. Jews would never say that god is a person nor would Muslims. I'd highly assume Muslims wouldn't not talk about god's nature because his nature is shared in the Quran and the practices in the Quran and Hadith.

These three are separate nature of god. How can they be of one Creator.

I know you believe your creator is the correct one. If you were an outsider, how would you approach the issue?

This does not necessarily mean that there are many gods. It may mean that a lot of religions are wrong. Human beings get a lot wrong, especially when it comes to such intangible spiritual matters.

 

[Sonofason]

You're talking through a Christian lens. If I did the same of my faith, I'd say that all three religions are wrong because everything is seen through ones ancestors. If you are looking at anything outside of them and without them being the priority, you are misguided.

However.

I don't do that out loud. It seems more of a God-of-Abraham-Religion thing to do. Very political.

That aside, we will say Jews that do not believe Jesus is god and Muslims who are not misguided in their own faith.

In Judaism: they do not define god (hence, we don't know his nature)

Muslim: (We know his nature and also know it's not a physical manifestation of any sort. It's an insult to the creator)

Christianity (Mainstream): Jesus (body and flesh) is god/creator the father. To others Jesus is god/divine the same as his father.

These three natures of the Creator cannot be the same creator. Jews would never say that god is a person nor would Muslims. I'd highly assume Muslims wouldn't not talk about god's nature because his nature is shared in the Quran and the practices in the Quran and Hadith.

These three are separate nature of god. How can they be of one Creator.

I know you believe your creator is the correct one. If you were an outsider, how would you approach the issue?

Sorry for answering this comment of yours with three separate responses, but I keep going back to your comment and seeing new stuff and getting new insights to your questions.

If I were an outsider, I'd be asking the questions you are asking. I believe my response would be. Human beings are desperately flawed. If you want to know God, seek him yourself, and forget what everyone else says. Weigh the evidence, and make your own judgments.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Sorry for answering this comment of yours with three separate responses, but I keep going back to your comment and seeing new stuff and getting new insights to your questions.

No biggie. I was wondering.

This does not necessarily mean that there are many gods. It may mean that a lot of religions are wrong. Human beings get a lot wrong, especially when it comes to such intangible spiritual matters.

I don't know if I'd say wrong since that looks at ethics. I see a lot of right or good morals in Paganism and some in Catholicism while others all of them in Buddhism. They are all right to me.

As for whether they contradict each other, well, they do. Maybe another word is they are not all correct. I guess correct meaning factual and right/wrong meaning ethics and morals. We can have overlapping morals/ethics and they are right in their own right. We can't have overlapping facts if one contradicts the other.

Tit or tat.

If I were an outsider, I'd be asking the questions you are asking. I believe my response would be. Human beings are desperately flawed. If you want to know God, seek him yourself, and forget what everyone else says. Weigh the evidence, and make your own judgments.

Let me ask, how are we flawed? By whose standard are we flawed?

I know we make mistakes "according to our criteria of mistakes" but without defining what is right and wrong, we aren't flawed just doing our thing. For example, I have Epilepsy. Many doctors say I am "flawed" because I have an chronic condition. Yet, they also explained that that's how "doctors" see it, it is natural or not flawed for neurons to act up in and of itself. They sparkle and go back on track. We call it abnormal or wrong because of the results from unconsciousness to in rare cases death. It's not a flawed condition just our symptoms are flawed according to human medical standards.

What human conditions make us flawed? Going by the conditions not the results of them (if that is true).

 

[Sonofason]

No biggie. I was wondering.



I don't know if I'd say wrong since that looks at ethics. I see a lot of right or good morals in Paganism and some in Catholicism while others all of them in Buddhism. They are all right to me.

As for whether they contradict each other, well, they do. Maybe another word is they are not all correct. I guess correct meaning factual and right/wrong meaning ethics and morals. We can have overlapping morals/ethics and they are right in their own right. We can't have overlapping facts if one contradicts the other.

Tit or tat.



Let me ask, how are we flawed? By whose standard are we flawed?

I know we make mistakes "according to our criteria of mistakes" but without defining what is right and wrong, we aren't flawed just doing our thing. For example, I have Epilepsy. Many doctors say I am "flawed" because I have an chronic condition. Yet, they also explained that that's how "doctors" see it, it is natural or not flawed for neurons to act up in and of itself. They sparkle and go back on track. We call it abnormal or wrong because of the results from unconsciousness to in rare cases death. It's not a flawed condition just our symptoms are flawed according to human medical standards.

What human conditions make us flawed? Going by the conditions not the results of them (if that is true).

By God's standards we are flawed. By my standards, we are flawed. I see what people do around me, and everyone is selfish. I see me, and I am not impressed. I don't see too many good people. Don't get me wrong, I've met a few old men, and a few old women that have impressed me with their integrity, and honor. But I don't see that in most people today. Everyone sucks in my opinion. Greedy, selfish, backstabbing, gossipers, liars. No one is good...no, not one.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

By God's standards we are flawed. By my standards, we are flawed. I see what people do around me, and everyone is selfish. I see me, and I am not impressed. I don't see too many good people. Don't get me wrong, I've met a few old men, and a few old women that have impressed me with their integrity, and honor. But I don't see that in most people today. Everyone sucks in my opinion. Greedy, selfish, backstabbing, gossipers, liars. No one is good...no, not one.

I've spent some time around criminals. I talk with homeless people who are depicted as alcoholics (on purpose), people who don't want a job, and people who don't care rather than people who are going through spiritual depression, people who can't get a job because our system is messed up, and people who care but can't do anything about it given age, mental condition, and living conditions.

I work with Christians who say they love the sinner but hate the sin then tell me to my face I will be judged and go to hell and she is my friend.

I've interviewed child molesters and I have a heart break for all priests who are put in the same boat as priest who have child molested especially priests who have saved my spiritual well being.

I see people die or dying mentally. I've experienced my boat load of mess. I don't see any flaws in these things because I actually got to know these people who took lives. I got to talk with my friend to see where she came from of why I will go to hell and talked with her it's not what she said but the how. I talk with the homeless and find they value conversation because our system makes it so hard to get out that you'd literally need over a million to get out safely and stay out or move. I've talked with severely mentally disabled people who our government put them in the same place with sane people who have dangerous motives for future crimes. I've finally got one person to leave the rehab place I was at by not forcing her but she found out she could get an education without anyone putting her down.

She wasn't flawed but people thought she was because of her background, her illnesses, and her living conditions.

Yet, that's not who we are. These are situational things and they don't define us. We lie but we are not liers. That is not who we are that is what we do. (The government tends to put labels on us rather than our actions). We murder but we are not murderers. That's just what we do.

I believe we are not flawed inside and each of us have a human need to be whole or holistically healthy and connected with life. Our mental and physical body is naturally adapt to survive as long as it can, go through natural sickness, and die. It's not flawed, it's life and the human condition.

I'd say if we called ourselves flawed, then we would be inherited liars, murderers, thieves, etc. I have yet to see a child be a thief without situational issues involved (give me my toy, type of thing).

Both of us have different experiences. I just find it sad to hear people who don't love their family anymore. People who turn their back to the homeless because they feel that person will use their money for bad things when charity has no reservations whatsoever. I find it flawed to even have that mindset. I can forgive liars. I can forgive murderers. However, we have a choice to think in bias ways. We have a choice to see someone has a bad person or someone who is probably finding ways to make himself a better person. We have a choice to accept that people are happy where they are regardless of how we feel about the situation.

If we can change our mindset, hopefully the "We are flawed; we are mere humans; we are limited" will get from people's minds. Hopefully working together will get us out of this "I am the only one who doesn't do this" situation and accept that we can be murderers to, backstabbing, and all the above.

We have to associate ourselves with people we have bias with. Find ways to see their spirit, connect their spirit with who they are also in the flesh. Treat and see them in their pure form rather than wait until the afterlife for it.

That's how I feel.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Wow! Sorry, that was so long.

 

[Sonofason]

Wow! Sorry, that was so long.

No worries, I'm going over it now...will respond shortly

 

[CG Didymus]

You are wrong.

We ought not fool ourselves into thinking that Christians, Jews and Muslims believe in a different God. It is surely the same God they believe in. The God that Abraham spoke of is indeed the same God that Muslims believe in. People have perceptions. Two different people can meet my acquaintance and come to two very different conclusions about me. It could be that one of them is wrong about me. It could be that both of them are right about me. Or it could be that both of them are wrong about me. External influences play a significant antecedent role in the development of our perceptions of those experiences we have, but we must keep in mind that perceptions are more consequentially constructs of the mind.

How does one perceive God? Is it by the perceptions of others? How can we reliably place honest and good faith in the existence of God based on the constructs of other people's minds? We can't. Their experiences can only serve as a comparison to the perceptions that we have.

If we are to have faith in God it must be because we have experienced Him in some significant way. even then our perceptions of Him are likely desperately flawed.

"For who knows a person's thoughts except their own spirit within them? In the same way no one knows the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God." (1 Corinthians:1)

How is God defined in Judaism? How about your form of Christianity? Are they the same? You mentioned Islam. Is their definition of God the same as Christianity?

In another post you said, "I see no reason why God himself cannot manifest himself in human form. And that is Christ, the manifestation of God in human form, with human limitations." So how about the definition of God in Hinduism? The Baha'i say that the God they believe in is the same as the Christian God. And Hindus, I believe, have many manifestations of God in human form, like Krishna. So are Jesus and Krishna both human forms of the same God?

You talk about "perceptions"? And then that they can be "flawed"? Yet, you say I'm wrong? Where did you get your knowledge about who God is? The Bible? God spoke to your heart? And I suppose you believe your interpretation of the Bible and your perceptions are not flawed? So tell me, how do you know?

 

[Sonofason]

I've spent some time around criminals. I talk with homeless people who are depicted as alcoholics (on purpose), people who don't want a job, and people who don't care rather than people who are going through spiritual depression, people who can't get a job because our system is messed up, and people who care but can't do anything about it given age, mental condition, and living conditions.

I work with Christians who say they love the sinner but hate the sin then tell me to my face I will be judged and go to hell and she is my friend.

Well, try not to judge your friend too harshly. I'm sure she believes strongly that what Christ has said is true, and she's only trying to help you. Surely, if she is a Christian, and she is your friend, she wants to spend eternity with you in heaven. But nevertheless, she probably is going about it in the wrong way. Most Christians do. Remember, it's my opinion that we are all depraved, and need the grace of God. Your friend is in the same boat. We all need God's grace and forgiveness. Well, that is the Christian perspective. Christ said there are people going to hell. It's easy to read it and see who he's talking about. Believing in other gods is not what Christ would have you to do. And I'm sure your friend loves you, and wants nothing bad to happen to you.

I've interviewed child molesters and I have a heart break for all priests who are put in the same boat as priest who have child molested especially priests who have saved my spiritual well being.

I agree, and feel very much the same. You know I read some statistics that said that nearly 10 percent of all males have a pedophilia mentality, that 1 percent of all males are indeed pedophiles. The stats went on to say that only .01% of priests have been caught displaying pedophilia behaviors. Anyway, it's a shame when a few people ruin it for everyone else.

I see people die or dying mentally. I've experienced my boat load of mess. I don't see any flaws in these things because I actually got to know these people who took lives. I got to talk with my friend to see where she came from of why I will go to hell and talked with her it's not what she said but the how. I talk with the homeless and find they value conversation because our system makes it so hard to get out that you'd literally need over a million to get out safely and stay out or move. I've talked with severely mentally disabled people who our government put them in the same place with sane people who have dangerous motives for future crimes. I've finally got one person to leave the rehab place I was at by not forcing her but she found out she could get an education without anyone putting her down.

She wasn't flawed but people thought she was because of her background, her illnesses, and her living conditions.

Way to go. It's nice to see that there is hope for people.

Yet, that's not who we are. These are situational things and they don't define us. We lie but we are not liers. That is not who we are that is what we do. (The government tends to put labels on us rather than our actions). We murder but we are not murderers. That's just what we do.

This is where I think you are wrong. People who lie are indeed liars. Their lying absolutely does define them. Pedophiles are pedophiles. What they do defines who they are. What we do, according to my faith, also defines your eternal destiny. If we are sinners...if we lie and cheat, if we abuse people, and if we do not repent of those kinds of acts, we shall be condemned. We must, in my opinion do what Christ said. If we do not, we are not following Him. And if we are not following Him, which includes being obedient to what He commands of us, we do not belong to Him, and we shall not see eternity in the loving presence of God.

I believe we are not flawed inside and each of us have a human need to be whole or holistically healthy and connected with life. Our mental and physical body is naturally adapt to survive as long as it can, go through natural sickness, and die. It's not flawed, it's life and the human condition.

I'd say if we called ourselves flawed, then we would be inherited liars, murderers, thieves, etc. I have yet to see a child be a thief without situational issues involved (give me my toy, type of thing).

It's a dangerous game to play in my opinion. We know what is right, and if we do not do that, I think we shall be judged for it. When Christ is in us, we turn away from that sort of behavior. Good people, don't lie. And without God's forgiveness, I believe they shall be condemned. And I believe that repentance, turning away from those sins is absolutely necessary. Christ speaks even of people that will not be saved that actually profess to believe in Him. It is quite possible for such persons to. We need to act right, and act right for the right reasons. Acting right for the wrong reasons can get you an eternity without God.

Both of us have different experiences. I just find it sad to hear people who don't love their family anymore. People who turn their back to the homeless because they feel that person will use their money for bad things when charity has no reservations whatsoever. I find it flawed to even have that mindset. I can forgive liars. I can forgive murderers. However, we have a choice to think in bias ways. We have a choice to see someone has a bad person or someone who is probably finding ways to make himself a better person. We have a choice to accept that people are happy where they are regardless of how we feel about the situation.

If we can change our mindset, hopefully the "We are flawed; we are mere humans; we are limited" will get from people's minds. Hopefully working together will get us out of this "I am the only one who doesn't do this" situation and accept that we can be murderers to, backstabbing, and all the above.

We have to associate ourselves with people we have bias with. Find ways to see their spirit, connect their spirit with who they are also in the flesh. Treat and see them in their pure form rather than wait until the afterlife for it.

That's how I feel.

I wish you luck with that. God knows the one's who belong to him. Whether they are Buddhists, Christians, Muslims, or rapists, etc., God knows who they are. But I do not believe that everyone will be saved. That's not what Christ said. And He's the one I follow.

 

[Sonofason]

How is God defined in Judaism? How about your form of Christianity? Are they the same? You mentioned Islam. Is their definition of God the same as Christianity?

In another post you said, "I see no reason why God himself cannot manifest himself in human form. And that is Christ, the manifestation of God in human form, with human limitations." So how about the definition of God in Hinduism? The Baha'i say that the God they believe in is the same as the Christian God. And Hindus, I believe, have many manifestations of God in human form, like Krishna. So are Jesus and Krishna both human forms of the same God?

You talk about "perceptions"? And then that they can be "flawed"? Yet, you say I'm wrong? Where did you get your knowledge about who God is? The Bible? God spoke to your heart? And I suppose you believe your interpretation of the Bible and your perceptions are not flawed? So tell me, how do you know?

God is always the same. I believe and am quite certain there is only one God. It is we who are flawed. Our perceptions of God are flawed. Not everyone's definition of God is the same. And we are flawed. Our perceptions are flawed. So no, a Muslim's definition of God is not the same as mine, not completely the same. The Muslim definition could be more correct than mine, or the other way around. Neither definition necessarily defines what God truly is. But I believe what I believe. So I apologize for saying you are wrong. You could be right. I believe you are wrong.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

I guess this balls down to different beliefs. Though it always interest me to hear from anyone who doesn't think like me. Most of the things I think are just common sense. I'm sure it may be the same for you.

Well, try not to judge your friend too harshly. I'm sure she believes strongly that what Christ has said is true, and she's only trying to help you. Surely, if she is a Christian, and she is your friend, she wants to spend eternity with you in heaven.

Yeah. She put me in shock for a good couple of minutes. If that wasn't her personality-very fundamental but in a good way-I would probably have taken it more harsh.

I agree, and feel very much the same. You know I read some statistics that said that nearly 10 percent of all males have a pedophilia mentality, that 1 percent of all males are indeed pedophiles. The stats went on to say that only .01% of priests have been caught displaying pedophilia behaviors. Anyway, it's a shame when a few people ruin it for everyone else.

Gosh. Wow.

Way to go. It's nice to see that there is hope for people.

If we didn't see ourselves as flawed, I think our mindset would be more healthy. Spiritual depression can get the best of us. That's one thing I don't care for with Christianity. It's a spiritually depressing religion. Regardless if Jesus is god, inherited sin or temptation, and all the other arguments, there is still a need to die to be saved. Without recognizing you're flawed, there isn't a reason to ask for salvation. Since I don't agree that I am flawed, it makes no sense to ask for help to stand when I haven't fallen. I honestly feel it's a political and, what's the other word, I guess a way to train others to think one way for use of control. We think we are isolated from 2,000 years ago and whatever year the Romans took Jewish beliefs and made them Christian. I was going to take classes to learn about Christianity, but I get a horrible feeling as if I'm learning about the holocaust. Doesn't sit right.

This is where I think you are wrong. People who lie are indeed liars. Their lying absolutely does define them

People are liers because that is what they do. It's not who they are. If I asked a Christian who lied how does he define himself, would he say "I'm an inherit liar. That's my spirituality." or would he say he is a child of Christ he just does things that he needs to repent of?

Why do we define what people do as who they are? It's English grammar to call someone a murderer because they have murdered. It doesn't address the soul just the action.

It's a dangerous game to play in my opinion. We know what is right, and if we do not do that, I think we shall be judged for it.

That depends. How you see right is depended on Christ. How I see right is depended on what we learned from our mistakes and actions that harm oneself or others in one way or another. How I see it is self-growth. Some religions see self-growth within a community. I wish I had that. Though basing it on god doesn't make sense. Ancestral spirits are a part of you. Seeking them for guidance even in some religions I agree with seeking them and spirits in general to understand god (pretending I believed in one) because god is unknown. God is life and we don't know all about life. So the spirits, our living family (hopefully), etc help with that.

We learn right from wrong by the blessings and consequences of our actions. We seek the spirits for guidance not to answer our problems our structure our lives.

We need to act right, and act right for the right reasons. Acting right for the wrong reasons can get you an eternity without God.

That makes sense. How I see it, acting right for the wrong reasons doesn't do anything but maybe put guilt on the person doing the action. It's more about how the actions affect oneself and others. However, most humans see actions as a reflection of their morals. (I think right, right actions follow) I see morals as a reflection of our actions. (I do right, right morals confirmed). Hard to explain. Sounds like a tongue twister.

I wish you luck with that. God knows the one's who belong to him. Whether they are Buddhists, Christians, Muslims, or rapists, etc., God knows who they are. But I do not believe that everyone will be saved. That's not what Christ said. And He's the one I follow.

That's pretty sad, to be blunt. I know I can't save the world but to me seeing the world as flawed and not everyone going to heaven is worse than a person who steals and murders. When we think like that spiritually, I find that harsh on the heart than having isolated actions like murder which can be avoided based on the circumstances of the situation rather than the heart.

 

[Sonofason]

I guess this balls down to different beliefs. Though it always interest me to hear from anyone who doesn't think like me. Most of the things I think are just common sense. I'm sure it may be the same for you.


Yeah. She put me in shock for a good couple of minutes. If that wasn't her personality-very fundamental but in a good way-I would probably have taken it more harsh.


Gosh. Wow.


If we didn't see ourselves as flawed, I think our mindset would be more healthy. Spiritual depression can get the best of us. That's one thing I don't care for with Christianity. It's a spiritually depressing religion. Regardless if Jesus is god, inherited sin or temptation, and all the other arguments, there is still a need to die to be saved. Without recognizing you're flawed, there isn't a reason to ask for salvation. Since I don't agree that I am flawed, it makes no sense to ask for help to stand when I haven't fallen. I honestly feel it's a political and, what's the other word, I guess a way to train others to think one way for use of control. We think we are isolated from 2,000 years ago and whatever year the Romans took Jewish beliefs and made them Christian. I was going to take classes to learn about Christianity, but I get a horrible feeling as if I'm learning about the holocaust. Doesn't sit right.



People are liers because that is what they do. It's not who they are. If I asked a Christian who lied how does he define himself, would he say "I'm an inherit liar. That's my spirituality." or would he say he is a child of Christ he just does things that he needs to repent of?

Why do we define what people do as who they are? It's English grammar to call someone a murderer because they have murdered. It doesn't address the soul just the action.



That depends. How you see right is depended on Christ. How I see right is depended on what we learned from our mistakes and actions that harm oneself or others in one way or another. How I see it is self-growth. Some religions see self-growth within a community. I wish I had that. Though basing it on god doesn't make sense. Ancestral spirits are a part of you. Seeking them for guidance even in some religions I agree with seeking them and spirits in general to understand god (pretending I believed in one) because god is unknown. God is life and we don't know all about life. So the spirits, our living family (hopefully), etc help with that.

We learn right from wrong by the blessings and consequences of our actions. We seek the spirits for guidance not to answer our problems our structure our lives.



That makes sense. How I see it, acting right for the wrong reasons doesn't do anything but maybe put guilt on the person doing the action. It's more about how the actions affect oneself and others. However, most humans see actions as a reflection of their morals. (I think right, right actions follow) I see morals as a reflection of our actions. (I do right, right morals confirmed). Hard to explain. Sounds like a tongue twister.


That's pretty sad, to be blunt. I know I can't save the world but to me seeing the world as flawed and not everyone going to heaven is worse than a person who steals and murders. When we think like that spiritually, I find that harsh on the heart than having isolated actions like murder which can be avoided based on the circumstances of the situation rather than the heart.

If you live right, there is nothing depressing about Christianity at all. But when you know you are not making the mark, yes that can be very depressing. If one is depressed about themselves because of their faith, they ought to do something about it. I am very happy. I see the sickness of the world all around me, and it really doesn't bother me at all. I do what I can do to help, but it's not really my problem. I am not afraid of death, and I am not afraid to live. I work hard, and take one day at a time.

If you are not defined by what you do, please tell me what defines you. Is it your name? Is it your address? Is it the country you live in. What actually defines you if it is not what you do?

 

[Unveiled Artist]

If you are not defined by what you do, please tell me what defines you. Is it your name? Is it your address? Is it the country you live in. What actually defines you if it is not what you do?

Your blood, heritage, and culture defines you. People who have been isolated for medical reasons literally their whole lives still have an identity just as you and I. I don't have to do anything to be who I am. The connection with life is at it's purest in silence and siting still. When we get to that type of silence where we don't always need to do things, then we can take a deep breathe, take our time, and do things that are productive and worth helping ourselves and others.

I don't agree that actions are not involved in who we are. I just know that we are not strictly limited by our actions. I don't always need to do anything to be me. If that' the case, I'd be trying to do things all the time so I know who I am. I should know who I am sitting still. I think it's also an American thing. "do-do-do".

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Actually, to tell you honestly, a lot of cultures use names to define in part who they are. Language is a powerful tool just as actions. I love language. If you go into the Deaf community (which I use as an example these days), you'll see language (not limited to) literally defines who a Deaf person is. It's not all about actions.

Address, actually, yes. A lot of pagans (native people of different countries. America isn't an exclusion) value the land they live on and where they live, it's history, defines who they are as people. It's a territorial identity. Very beautiful actually.

Yes, it is also the country we live in. Most of the time the country we are raised in. I'm an American born and raised. So when people talk against America, it annoys me because I know there are parts of American culture that other cultures may not have. That doesn't mean they are wrong, just we differ in values. Those values make up who we are as people. When we act, our actions confirm our values.

I did say actions come before morals. Let me correct that. We have values and that is who we are. When we act on our already set values they usually confirm our relationship with ourselves, others, and some places their god(s). We need actions, yes. They aren't who we are. That's like calling me a murderer and a care taker at the same time. Someone can murder one day and take care of a child the next day. That's not who they are, that's what they do. However, they may have values and those values that are engraved in them don't change regardless if they murder or take care of a child.

Do you identify as someone In Christ or someone who does for Christ?

Of course it's both, but just making a point if you can choose one or the other.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Long story short.

I feel values define who we are. Values can be from our names, addresses, family, strangers, and faith. When we have concrete values, usually our actions show it. Actions are a part of us, yes; but, they don't define us.

Defining myself as a murderer one day and a parent the next is a contradiction. Murdering someone one day and take care of my children the next day isn't a contradiction.

If I valued taking lives, that is who I am. If I valued taking care of children, that is who I am. Its what I value. Those values lead me to act. Yes, you can combine them. I wonder if we can have right reasons but make the wrong choice based on those reasons. Just a thought.

 

[muhammad_isa]

...
There is a contradiction in his nature and commandments. That doesn't mean there is more than one creator. It's just you guys don't agree on the nature of the creator and from an outsider, that's splitting one creator into three.

Which is right?

Which creed is right?
You seem to have already decided that they are all wrong.
My point is that even if Almighty God was 'plural' (of many parts), His (their) authority would still be supreme. If these parts had different opinions, it would make no sense