If there was universe before big bang

[Subduction Zone]

Give an an explanation for something coming into existence from nothing.

The Casimir effect.

 

[KW]

Call it whatever you want.

However that is not necessarily true. There are hypothesis that nothing existed before the bb.

And thats the thing, pre bb everything is just a guess.

Some guesses are based on extrapolation from known physical phenomena some on mathematics and there are some guesses based on wishful thinking

There is no rational explanation for something coming from nothing.

 

[Subduction Zone]

There is no rational explanation for something coming from nothing.

I gave one.

 

[KW]

The Casimir effect.

Forces are not nothing.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

I believe they do hold up but that wasn't the point I was making.

My point was that the traditional definition of God includes his eternal existence. The personal qualities assigned to God are in addition to these other qualities.

But the words of the definition doesn't make it a fact. If that was the case I would be the richest man on Earth. I am now the richest man on Earth. The words says it is so, therefore it is so independent of the words. That is what you don't get. You act as if words are magical.

 

[KW]

I gave one.

Not even close. A force is something. There isn't one.

 

[KW]

But the words of the definition doesn't make it a fact. If that was the case I would be the richest man on Earth. I am now the richest man on Earth. The words says it is so, therefore it is so independent of the words. That is what you don't get. You act as if words are magical.

If you don't want to use your brain I can't make you. I agree with that.

I didn't say they were fact. I said that the definition of Cosmos and God have many of the same qualities. You are trying to bring in additional arguments that had nothing to do with my point.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Forces are not nothing.

What forces? You said from "nothing". How are you defining "nothing"?

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

It doesn't work for you because you can't get the conclusion you want from rational thought.

But you can, right?

 

[Subduction Zone]

Not even close. A force is something. There isn't one.

You misunderstood the article. The force is not what makes the radiation.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

If you don't want to use your brain I can't make you. I agree with that.

But you can think God is eternal, therefore God is eternal.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

If you don't want to use your brain I can't make you. I agree with that.

I didn't say they were fact. I said that the definition of Cosmos and God have many of the same qualities. You are trying to bring in additional arguments that had nothing to do with my point.

But you say it is fact, because if there is a God, it is a fact that God is eternal.

 

[Stevicus]

This sounds similar to a question I asked about what existed before the creation of the Universe. If the Universe started existing about 13-14 billion years ago - and if we assume it was created by God who is eternal, then that must mean that God was sitting alone in the dark (nothingness) for trillions, quadrillions, even septillions of years (actually a lot longer if we're talking eternity) before finally deciding to create something like our Universe.

 

[PruePhillip]

I agree on that. What muddies the waters is when people try and impose their own belief of on others and claim it as definition

Ok, here's my definition of Christianity - that which pertains to Christ, his teachings, his example and his life.

 

[PruePhillip]

No, what you have done is claim all christians are like you. You have denied arond 90% of Christianity are actually christian.

My definition, if they claim to be Christian then who am i to argue, Christians come in all shapes and sizes, a few are good people, most are not.

And this is said by experience.

Ok, Italy's Benioto Mussolini was a Socialist and an atheist. He was the Prime Minister and dictator of Italy,
a nominally Catholic country. So was the Fascist Party 'Christian'?
Well, Italy is Catholic, and Italy was Fascist, supporting Hitler. So ergo Fascists, Socialists and Nazies are
Christians too. Therefore we need to EXPAND THE DEFINITION of a Christian to one who begins wars and
mass murders people.
See the problem? We keep expanding the definition to the point of meaninglessness. (4 syallables, folks)

I hold that by definition you can't expand the meaning of Christianity. Italy was religiously Christian, and
today England is culturally Christian - but these nations are not fundamentally Christian. And I am not
here referring to 'fundamentalist Christians' but to people was treat the New Testament as fundamental
to their life in the manner that book describes.

 

[PruePhillip]

Yes, but it doesn't turn it into a fact. It only tells you how somebody understands the word.

True, but definitions move the argument along. Fer instance some woke folk will declare you are 'racist' but then
shy away from defining the term, ie 'You are racist if you don't permit unrestricted immigration.' So I say, 'Can you
DEFINE the term?' and the conversation ends - for 'racism' is not about immigration at all.

 

[rational experiences]

If a human says in my human future I will be deceased what future do you own as a scientist?

If you say I live in the light constant yet I die then you don't own the light constant.

If you say humans quantify human ownership by thoughts only first is your biggest science mistake. As your thoughts don't own anything except your own one human life.

Is human reality in the big cosmic theme.

 

[ChristineM]

Ok, here's my definition of Christianity - that which pertains to Christ, his teachings, his example and his life.

Yes, over 2 1/4 billion people say that

 

[ChristineM]

See the problem? We keep expanding the definition to the point of meaninglessness

Nope, you keep reducing the meaning of Christianity by excluding the Christianity you don't agree with. There are close on 50,000 versions of Christianity, each putting their interpretation to whichever version of the several hundred versions of the bible they prefer.


I believe Mussolini early on in his life declared himself atheist but later began to embrace the church and its doctrines. To the extent the Vatican declared him “man whom providence has sent us.”

 

[PruePhillip]

Nope, you keep reducing the meaning of Christianity by excluding the Christianity you don't agree with. There are close on 50,000 versions of Christianity, each putting their interpretation to whichever version of the several hundred versions of the bible they prefer.


I believe Mussolini early on in his life declared himself atheist but later began to embrace the church and its doctrines. To the extent the Vatican declared him “man whom providence has sent us.”

Is this the same Vatican who turned a blind eye to the holocaust? If I was in the Vatican during this period
I would be appeasing the fascist dictator too.
No need to 'exclude' a church from Christianity - more acceptable to speak of what is actual New Testament
apostolic practice/doctrine and what is not. Thus loving your enemy is 100% correct and observing Easter
and Christmas is 0% correct.