If Trump cannot provide evidence of Illegal Obama Wiretap?

[metis]

This makes me think that Trump made the whole thing up even more. Now they are just reaching for a chance to claim that, even without evidence, it's still true. The Judge admitted that there won't be a way to prove it, a.k.a. no evidence. Yet Trump claimed it as "fact".

Trump needs to provide the evidence that convinced him so completely or apologize. But, he is a child in a fat man's suit, so that isn't very likely.

Remember the childhood story of "The Boy Who Cried 'Wolf!'?

At this point, we have already arrived at a sound conclusion that we simply cannot believe anything that Trump may claim because he's lied almost on an everyday occurrence. Yes, politicians lie, as I've been around the block a few times to have noticed, but it's now becoming a rarity when he tells the truth.

So, here's my point, namely that maybe when something comes up whereas it's so important for us to believe in our president, if the general public here cannot believe him because of his record of lying, then it will be harder and harder for us to actually trust him enough to deal with some future problems that could be very serious.

 

[leibowde84]

Remember the childhood story of "The Boy Who Cried 'Wolf!'?

At this point, we have already arrived at a sound conclusion that we simply cannot believe anything that Trump may claim because he's lied almost on an everyday occurrence. Yes, politicians lie, as I've been around the block a few times to have noticed, but it's now becoming a rarity when he tells the truth.

So, here's my point, namely that maybe when something comes up whereas it's so important for us to believe in our president, if the general public here cannot believe him because of his record of lying, then it will be harder and harder for us to actually trust him enough to deal with some future problems that could be very serious.

I agree completely.

 

[Revoltingest]

It seems obvious that Trump has no actual views. He's a narcissist who only cares about how much his fans like and watch him. Because the Dems were mean to him (in his opinion), he is die hard to oppose anything they like. His views like the wall, immigration, Islam, religious liberty, guns, etc. are just tools for him to energize his hillbilly base.

Yours is a very interesting perspective.

 

[leibowde84]

Yours is a very interesting perspective.

If you want evidence to back it up, I'm happy to provide it.

 

[Revoltingest]

If you want evidence to back it up, I'm happy to provide it.

I'm sure you have your reasons.
But belief in the irredeemable evil of the other side doesn't inspire interest.

 

[leibowde84]

I'm sure you have your reasons.
But belief in the irredeemable evil of the other side doesn't inspire interest.

Again, not the other side. Just Trump and his cronies.

 

[Revoltingest]

Again, not the other side. Just Trump and his cronies.

They're the "other side" I referred to.

This reminds me of people I know who believe things like Hillary & Obama
being evil Marxists bent on destroying the country. I avoid their 'evidence' too.
When all nuance & balance are lost, there's nothing to discuss.

 

[leibowde84]

They're the "other side" I referred to.

This reminds me of people I know who believe things like Hillary & Obama
being evil Marxists bent on destroying the country. I avoid their 'evidence' too.
When all nuance & balance are lost, there's nothing to discuss.

Well if the other side is just his administration specifically, then you are right. I gave him a chance to clean up his act after the inauguration but he squandered it. He constantly reacts like a prepubescent girl.

 

[Revoltingest]

Well if the other side is just his administration specifically, then you are right. I gave him a chance to clean up his act after the inauguration but he squandered it. He constantly reacts like a prepubescent girl.

You won't sway anyone with hyperbole.
Btw, prepubescent girls are offended.

 

[Nous]

An article in WaPo yesterday reported that after the DOJ missed the Monday deadline to produce wiretapping evidence requested by the House Intelligence Committee, Chairman Devin Nunes threatened to supoena the administration. And Lindsey Graham--“who is clearly skeptical of the wiretapping claim and chairs a [judiciary] subcommittee looking into it,” and who has said, "there was no wiretapping,"--answered a question stating that if the DOJ and FBI do not comply with his committee's request to provide copies of warrants and court orders on the wiretapping, “we need a joint select committee because regular order is not working.” He used more colorful language in noting that if the DOJ and FBI do not honor the committee's request, “they are about to screw up big time.”

Fortunately not even Congressional Republicans are willing to let Trump slide on his libelous and idiotic allegation. I hope the poll on this thread does not represent the majority of the unthinking American public.

 

[leibowde84]

An article in WaPo yesterday reported that after the DOJ missed the Monday deadline to produce wiretapping evidence requested by the House Intelligence Committee, Chairman Devin Nunes threatened to supoena the administration. And Lindsey Graham--“who is clearly skeptical of the wiretapping claim and chairs a [judiciary] subcommittee looking into it,” and who has said, "there was no wiretapping,"--answered a question stating that if the DOJ and FBI do not comply with his committee's request to provide copies of warrants and court orders on the wiretapping, “we need a joint select committee because regular order is not working.” He used more colorful language in noting that if the DOJ and FBI do not honor the committee's request, “they are about to screw up big time.”

Fortunately not even Congressional Republicans are willing to let Trump slide on his libelous and idiotic allegation. I hope the poll on this thread does not represent the majority of the unthinking American public.

I agree with you 100%. And, I am surprised with the outcome of the poll. But, at least 58% of those that responded seem to be reasonable.

 

[Nous]

I agree with you 100%. And, I am surprised with the outcome of the poll. But, at least 58% of those that responded seem to be reasonable.

If nothing else, at least Trump's libelous lie will be something worth mentioning during the impeachment hearings.

 

[idav]

If nothing else, at least Trump's libelous lie will be something worth mentioning during the impeachment hearings.

Is it just me or is the Justice department not obligated to tell Trump what he is being investigated about, even if they were? I smell a conflict of interest, more people needing to recuse themselves.

 

[Stevicus]

It seems obvious that Trump has no actual views. He's a narcissist who only cares about how much his fans like and watch him. Because the Dems were mean to him (in his opinion), he is die hard to oppose anything they like. His views like the wall, immigration, Islam, religious liberty, guns, etc. are just tools for him to energize his hillbilly base.

I don't agree that he doesn't have any views. He seems quite clearly of the "America First" camp, which is a view, even if it may be zealously opposed by various entrenched factions within America. That's why I don't really see these issues as being personally about Trump, since they've been in the American political consciousness for decades, even if they've been relegated to the periphery and kept out of the mainstream. Or as you call it, a "hillbilly base," but it's that kind of pejorative which has clouded the issues and left the voters to choose between one extreme or the other. The Dems have been using the tactics of ridicule like that for a long time, and the thing is, it doesn't really address any issues nor does it create an environment conducive to peaceful compromise or productive debate.

 

[idav]



I don't agree that he doesn't have any views. He seems quite clearly of the "America First" camp, which is a view, even if it may be zealously opposed by various entrenched factions within America. That's why I don't really see these issues as being personally about Trump, since they've been in the American political consciousness for decades, even if they've been relegated to the periphery and kept out of the mainstream. Or as you call it, a "hillbilly base," but it's that kind of pejorative which has clouded the issues and left the voters to choose between one extreme or the other. The Dems have been using the tactics of ridicule like that for a long time, and the thing is, it doesn't really address any issues nor does it create an environment conducive to peaceful compromise or productive debate.

The right and left, all they really did was argue each other's extremes in politics, and the extemists are hardly even a minority when you put both of sides together. Most people believe somewhere in between.

 

[Stevicus]



The right and left, all they really did was argue each other's extremes in politics, and the extemists are hardly even a minority when you put both of sides together. Most people believe somewhere in between.

Yeah, I know, but the trouble is, most people don't even bother to vote. Even if they might believe somewhere in between, a lot of people don't really feel strongly enough to argue about it or stand up to any elements of extremism.

You're correct in that all they really did was argue each other's extremes, and as a result, both sides ended up appearing more extreme than they probably actually are. But when both sides accuse each other of being "the extreme," then is there a risk it could be a self-fulfilling prophecy?

 

[idav]

Yeah, I know, but the trouble is, most people don't even bother to vote. Even if they might believe somewhere in between, a lot of people don't really feel strongly enough to argue about it or stand up to any elements of extremism.

Of course not cause most people hear it and run away. Though to be fair 30% of people couldn't vote the primaries.

 

[jonathan180iq]

LOLs

President Trump says news reports were origin of unsubstantiated wiretap claim

The President of the United States of America has admitted that his opinions on certain issues are based on what he reads or watches on TV...

Like I said, he's just a grumpy old man from a bygone era, who also happens to be the head of the executive branch.

"I mean, let's see whether or not I prove it,” Trump said. "But I think we have some very good stuff. And we're in the process of putting it together, and I think it's going to be very demonstrative.”
-DJT

Trump's comments are a small example of a much bigger problem that I see permeating American culture - We no longer know how to think. We don't know what "facts" are. We have lost touch with the ability to discern credible sources from junk sources. So long as something agrees with our worldview, we find it credible. Trump, himself, continuously acknowledges this when he deems reporters "good" or "bad" based on whether or not they ask him simple questions or if their news outlets spend most of their time defending his positions.

It's too bad Trump can't tweet about real things. POTUS needs lessons in logic! Fake Tweets! SAD!

 

[Nous]

Is it just me or is the Justice department not obligated to tell Trump what he is being investigated about, even if they were? I smell a conflict of interest, more people needing to recuse themselves.

What the Congressional committees are investigating are Trump's allegation of what would presumably have been an unconstitutional or at least unethical act somehow perpetrated by Obama (unless Obama personally hired goons to install a wiretap or did it himself, he could have only gotten such a wiretap through the FISA court, though that isn't done on US citizens). There is no law or rule that requires the DOJ to inform the President of what Congressional committees are doing. If Trump were able to read, he wouldn't need someone to be spoon-fed by someone. I imagine that Sessions probably doesn't bother Trump with a lot of information that he believes Trump is unable to comprehend. But that's between the two of them.

Anyway, what are you referring to as "a conflict of interest"? What people need to recuse themselves from what?