If you believe in God AND evolution, why do you believe in God?

[YoursTrue]

YES! The Unknowable, Incomprehensible Intelligent Designer, a.k.a. God.

See my response to @Trailblazer, please.

 

[Trailblazer]

hmmm I am pretty sure not everyone here would agree with that. Maybe a thread put up to see how people (if they're brave enough) would answer to that. Thanks.

The creationist Christians here would not agree with that, obviously, but not all Christians are creationists.

Gallup's survey indicated that belief in creationism has been relatively stable, although it has declined slightly in recent years. Its most recent poll found that 40% of Americans believe in creationism.

Creationism by country - Wikipedia

 

[Trailblazer]

YES! The Unknowable, Incomprehensible Intelligent Designer, a.k.a. God.

The God who created the heaven and the earth in six calendar days?

 

[Spice]

The God who created the heaven and the earth in six calendar days?

Not hardly. That one has been corralled in to fit man's image. Too restrictive.

 

[Trailblazer]

Not hardly. That one has been corralled in to fit man's image. Too restrictive.

I was just kidding about the six days in case you missed that.... I am pretty loopy today from lack of sleep.

 

[Spice]

I was just kidding about the six days in case you missed that.... I am pretty loopy today from lack of sleep.

I figured as much, but it did cross my mind fir a sec that you forgot how far "out there" I am in my thinking. LOL

 

[Spice]

hmmm I am pretty sure not everyone here would agree with that. Maybe a thread put up to see how people (if they're brave enough) would answer to that. Thanks.

Of course not everyone would agree. That's one of the beauties in a personal relationship with God. Your "free" to go wherever He can be found.

 

[YoursTrue]

Of course not everyone would agree. That's one of the beauties in a personal relationship with God. Your "free" to go wherever He can be found.

I do believe He allows us to decide.

 

[YoursTrue]

I was just kidding about the six days in case you missed that.... I am pretty loopy today from lack of sleep.

If you believe that everyone interprets those 6 days as 24 hours each perhaps you need to think more about it.

 

[Trailblazer]

If you believe that everyone interprets those 6 days as 24 hours each perhaps you need to think more about it.

I don't think that everyone does, but I think that some people do...
How about you, what do you think?

 

[YoursTrue]

I don't think that everyone does, but I think that some people do...
How about you, what do you think?

I firmly believe that each day is considered a period of time within which what is said to have taken place took place. It could have been thousands of years for each day, we don't know, but what we DO know is extraordinary in that the 7th day is said to have begun but there is no close to it recorded. Every other day of creation has a beginning and an end -- not the 7th day.

 

[Brian2]

Hi, what he is saying is that some Bible literalists consider Bible non-literalists as invalid Christians and/or invalid believers in God.
The reason for this is because atheists are also Bible non-literalists and some Bible literalists don't discern the difference between Bible non-literalists who believe in God and Bible non-literalists who are atheists.

When in fact Bible literalism is scientifically illogical.

Yes afaik some Christian literalists do claim that others who are not literalists are invalid.
However what I have found with many atheists is that they also have to claim that the true interpretation of the creation story is a literal one. They seem to do this because they want an excuse to not believe it, to not accept it as a teaching myth and also not accept it as a story that can fit in with what science has discovered. IOW they only have arguments against the literalists and so the correct interpretation must be literalists so that they can still attack the creation story.

 

[Trailblazer]

Every other day of creation has a beginning and an end -- not the 7th day.

Why doesn't the 7th day have a beginning and an end?

 

[Brian2]

I think that it is acceptance of science that is used as the reason to judge whether a person is Christian or not. That a Christian that doesn't behave in a way that some groups dictate is the basis for casting doubt. I think the point of this thread is that you cannot believe in some science and believe in God. I consider that to be ridiculous and out of touch.

I suppose many atheist/skeptics make a similar mistake when they say that someone has to believe in evolution as taught by science or they cannot believe in modern biology.

 

[Spice]

Why doesn't the 7th day have a beginning and an end?

Is it still the 7th day?
Would that mean we're to still be at rest?

 

[Dan From Smithville]

I suppose many atheist/skeptics make a similar mistake when they say that someone has to believe in evolution as taught by science or they cannot believe in modern biology.

I don't think that is the same thing. First of all, acceptance of a theory isn't the same as holding a spiritual belief based on faith. A theory is an explanation based on reasoning and evidence. It is contingent. But in this particular case we are talking about a theory with a body of evidence so large and robust, it would require a very significant and extraordinary body of evidence to overturn it.

Secondly, the theory is foundational to modern biology and ties it all together. You could ignore it, but a lot of what we have learned wouldn't make much sense following that paradigm.

Even if the theory of evolution was rejected, the change that is represented in the evidence still exists. Without the theory to explain it, it would still demand an explanation in the context of science.

Finally, it has been formulated and supported using the same methodology as any other theory, any other science, so rejecting it would demand a significant reason that takes that into account and explains the selectivity. Picking and choosing acceptance of science based on some external ideology would require that ideology possess that extraordinary and significant evidence and explain how the theory is different from any other theory so that it could be surgically overturned.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

That is not the point of the question posed at the beginning. It's not asking why a person believes in evolution if he also believes in God.

But you keep referencing the past position taken by those that support the theory of evolution in former discussions and debates. I have been explaining why your complaint about that is unjustified by your reference about what has been done. Those discussions were discussions of science and no one would expect anyone to start speaking of their personal beliefs. Recall that context is important.

So allow me to reiterate -- the point is if a person believes in evolution and God, why does such a person believe in God?

And again, I repeat, why does it matter unless you are claiming that the one cannot exist with the other and that those so identified are not "true" believers. Is that what you are attempting? Keeping in mind that I'm aware of your religious affiliation and the basis of a somewhat or pseudo-literal interpretation of the Bible and the rejection of anything that is contrary to that interpretation. I respect your right to believe as you choose, but I don't agree with the position or find any reason to consider it the only way to believe.

It's not asking some to delineate why a person believes in evolution

I get that, but I remind you that you continually make mention of what has been done elsewhere in this forum. My responses and the responses of others simply address those references and explain them.

... but rather why a person who believes in God and evolution believes in God.

And what do you think will come of this knowledge? What questions do you consider it will answer? What do you think this says about their belief that is important enough to mine the information so vigorously and doggedly?

So far it seems for some no reason for belief in God is necessary...therefore none is given.

That is not what I have been reading. I have read faith mentioned several times. Why do you believe in God? Not adherence to a particular religion or denominational ideology within a religion, but God specifically. Perhaps your answer will save you the trouble of looking further.

 

[Brian2]

I don't think that is the same thing. First of all, acceptance of a theory isn't the same as holding a spiritual belief based on faith. A theory is an explanation based on reasoning and evidence. It is contingent. But in this particular case we are talking about a theory with a body of evidence so large and robust, it would require a very significant and extraordinary body of evidence to overturn it.

Secondly, the theory is foundational to modern biology and ties it all together. You could ignore it, but a lot of what we have learned wouldn't make much sense following that paradigm.

Even if the theory of evolution was rejected, the change that is represented in the evidence still exists. Without the theory to explain it, it would still demand an explanation in the context of science.

Finally, it has been formulated and supported using the same methodology as any other theory, any other science, so rejecting it would demand a significant reason that takes that into account and explains the selectivity. Picking and choosing acceptance of science based on some external ideology would require that ideology possess that extraordinary and significant evidence and explain how the theory is different from any other theory so that it could be surgically overturned.

Some religious people might say that evolution happens and happened in the development of life forms but that God may have stepped in at various places do things that nature by itself might not have been able to manage.
So these people would believe in evolution but not in the scientific sense of it all being through natural processes.
So a belief in the strict scientific understanding of and belief in evolution is not necessary to explain all the changes.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

Some religious people might say that evolution happens and happened in the development of life forms but that God may have stepped in at various places do things that nature by itself might not have been able to manage.

Some do. Many in fact. What I believe is much like that, but I just conclude that we do not really know the Bible or the correct interpretation in a way that many think they do know.

So these people would believe in evolution but not in the scientific sense of it all being through natural processes.

I would think that they believe God was involved, but don't know when, where or how and have no evidence to say. So best stick with what we do have evidence for and the fact that it doesn't refute God, merely many interpretations that stand on the literal.

So a belief in the strict scientific understanding of and belief in evolution is not necessary to explain all the changes.

I'm not sure I follow. What heritable, adaptive changes are you saying are not explained by the theory of evolution?

 

[Dan From Smithville]

hmmm I am pretty sure not everyone here would agree with that. Maybe a thread put up to see how people (if they're brave enough) would answer to that. Thanks.

I'm curious why you keep referencing "if people are brave enough". You seem to be implying that anyone not responding is a coward. Is that really the message you want to send? I hope not.