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well yes, going back to reasons for belief in the theory of evolution science offers reasons. And as you seem to imply, belief in God without reason justifies belief in God, is that right? No backup needed. No reason. Just belief is the reason for some. Like you say, you believe because you believe because you believe. Right?
well, we had one poster answer that he believes because he believes and no justification is necessary. In other words, no reason other than belief without justification. I think my query may be over -- so I would like to thank everyone for answering, whether I agree or not is not the question. But thanks.
I think that is the problem. That both theists and atheists accept the science confounds literalist interpreters of the Bible that reject the theory for reasons of belief. If atheists accept the theory that literalist interpreters view as against God, then Christians that accept the theory, must also really be against God and not believe in God either. Thus, the position becomes another argument from ignorance in my view. Otherwise, there is no point to reference acceptance of the theory of evolution as near as I can determine.
thank you Brian.
An I'm not saying you are asking it. I'm asking why mention of the theory is at all relevant. There must be some reason for including it in the OP.
All I got from what Brian wrote is that he believes because he believes. If that was all you wanted, why didn't you say so. I believe because I believe just like @Brian2. I also cannot justify my belief with reason and don't feel compelled to try just as Brian stated.
I don't see why I should not ask it. But I see that the mere mention of science and evolution even if not involved in the question is a hot topic for some. Again, it's like saying "how are you feeling today because I know you were not feeling well last time we spoke two weeks ago," and the person just talks about how he felt two weeks ago when that wasn't the question. But ANYWAY--wonder how things will work out (I think I know) if I start another thread without mentioning anything about science (or evolution, which I KNOW is a scientific endeavor).
While I thank Brian for his answer (at least he answered), he offered no reasons for his belief. ok.
No one is challenging the act of asking it. But a lot of people including me wonder why you are asking it and you have tried not to answer that for 13 pages now. If it isn't relevant to a question of belief, then it makes no sense to include it and if it is, why?
You are just now seeing that? I think you are belittling your own powers of observation and your years of experience here.
It is not like that at all. All of that is relevant to asking how a person is feeling. Unless you are saying that asking about the theory of evolution really is relevant. Then we are back to why do you feel it is relevant?
It isn't a very good example, because you aren't getting irrelevant response. They are relevant to what you asked.
I can answer that thread now. I believe because I believe because I believe. It is on faith. There is no objective, rational evidence for my belief.
What sort of reasons are you looking for? Completely subjective or do you know of objective reasons that others can share here?
Thank you, too.
You are most welcome. I hope you have a pleasant rest of your evening. I remain curious about all of this, but I think that it might be wise to let it go.Thank you, too.
I don't know. Perhaps. If I accept subjective evidence as valid to me even if I can't demonstrate that to others. It is a circular validation. I believe it is real and it is real, because I believe it.
I don't believe that acceptance of the theory of evolution differentiates belief in God among believers. You are a believer or you are not. Acceptance of science doesn't change that. Rejecting that science doesn't make one more or less a believer either as near as I know.
Thank you, too.
once again -- you and Brian and a few others have answered the question -- you believe because you believe, no reason (or justification) beyond that is offered.
OK, thanks.
My a/c is broken and I've had several experts supposedly to look at it. They charged me money. It was working when they left but broke again and can't figure it out. I think it's pertinent to this discussion. They say it's ok but it keeps breaking. They belong to a company. They are the technicians. They don't know why it's not working.I'm with you. I believe in God and I accept the theory of evolution. Accepting the theory of evolution doesn't mean a believer has some obligation to explain their faith. If you are engaging a Christian mechanic to work on your car, there is no obligation that the mechanic must explain their belief in order to assess their mechanical ability or permit them to work on the car. To me it seems to be another attempt to reject science and challenge the validity of Christians that accept science.
Accepting science doesn't invalidate faith no matter what some people might claim. What I believe is that we do not understand the Bible enough to have come to the best interpretation of scripture despite those all-seeing, all-knowing groups that believe otherwise.
You aren't asking for much.
Besides the ever-increasing fossil record, there is evidence found in numerous scientific disciplines. Geology provides us with dating of the strata in which fossils are found. Which is based on work from physics and chemistry. Paleontology provides an interpretation of the fossil record and extends it back 3.8 billion years. Genetics and molecular biology provides evidence and explanation for the particulate basis of inheritance, mutations, relationships between groups and changes in the genes of populations over time. As well, population biology expands on that to further demonstrate those changes and put them in the context of the environment. Physiology presents different evidence to establish relationships between groups of species as well as differentiating the popular notion of adaptation from genetic adaptation that occurs with evolution. Ecology helps us better understand the relationships between living organisms and their environments demonstrating mechanisms of change in action like that demonstrated in one of my favorite papers. https://hoekstra.oeb.harvard.edu/files/hoekstra/files/barrett2019sci.pdf
While attacking Darwin seems to be a creationist pass time, no doubt spurred by a view that Darwin is akin to a religious prophet or holy man. His contribution to science was tremendous, but after 150 years, his relevancy is confined to history and the study of biology and evolution has moved well on. But it is important to mention that a significant portion of On the Origin of Species as dedicated to evidence supporting the theory. And since that time so much evidence has been further accumulated that the theory of evolution is the most well-evidence theory in science. To repeat that the evidence simply isn't there is wishful thinking driven by a desire to overturn the theory for reasons other than scientific.
The evidence is simply to voluminous to do it justice by trying to describe it in a few paragraphs. Suffice it to say that practically every field in biology, including applied fields is touched by the theory and in turn has provided evidence supporting the theory.
I will close with mention of a few important examples of the theory including the use of it to make predictions. In the early 2000's, Neil Shubin and his team were able to find fossils of Tiktaalik, a lobe finned fish with derived features of later tetrapods. https://www.stuartsumida.com/BIOL524/DaeschlerEtAl2006.pdf
If you are interested in more evidence, it can be found in work on the ice nucleating protein of notothenioid fish of Antarctic seas https://www.pnas.org/doi/pdf/10.1073/pnas.0603796103, the cichlid super flock of species from Lake Victoria in Africa, lactose persistence in humans (this also demonstrates convergent evolution by the way), whale fossils and whale evolution from the work of Philip Gingerich https://deepblue.lib.umich.edu/bitstream/handle/2027.42/48501/ID352.pdf, the co-evolution of newts and garter snakes in the Pacific Northwest https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/pdfdirect/10.1111/j.0014-3820.2002.tb00132.x
I could go on, and perhaps when I have more time I will, but there is an abundance of evidence supporting the theory evidence by the millions of papers that have been published on the subject.
No. I am asking what reasons a person may have to believe there is a God IF they believe there is a God.
kind of like me, too. Don't want to irritate too many people...
